BoxRec

ttornado wrote:

Chepppaaa wrote:
radfio or newspaper werent close to what tv and today internet is. and back than most of the people were poor, only rich had radios. people had food or gettin threw the day, or basicly work work work on their mind, than sports.
.

Newspapers were massive more widely read than any single website, and radios were a communal activity were work colleagues or families would listen together. Internet is a massive resource so more information is missed by those not overtly interested. Boxing was also much more of a mainstream, and you're forgetting the cultural significance that the Louis vs Schmeling fights had which are without parallel in recent history.

Hello

J-C wrote:John L Sullivan was possibly the first sporting icon

And was well known outside of the US.

You're right about the list being challenged, but I reckon that was kind of the point.

I agree on: Jack Johnson, Joe Louis, Ray Robinson, Tyson, and Muhammad Ali.

These are names that non-boxing people know.

I would have put Jack Dempsey on the list. He was larger than life.

I would put Ray Leonard and George Foreman on the list and take off RJJ and Mayweather. Great fighters, not sure they're icons.

J-C wrote:John L Sullivan was possibly the first sporting icon

John L. Sullivan was a tremendous name in his time. His name was as important in his time as Lebron James is today in the African American community or as big as I imagine the name Klitschko is in Eastern Europe today.

Young people today who are not boxing fans do not know the names Jack Johnson, John L. Sullivan, and Jack Dempsey, but they sure as Hell should !

Tarkus wrote:

chad wrote:Just Ali and Tyson for me.

Exactly what I was thinking.

As do I. Jones and Mayweather are no way near global icons. But Ali and Tyson would be mobbed everywhere.

Tyson and especially Ali had a true global impact

I know one thing....during Roy Jones's reign on the streets even the not so casual boxing fans talked about Roy Jones Jr. Everybody from what

I saw knew exactly who Roy Jones Jr was EVERYONE. On many early saturdays chatting about what would happen that night when Roy fought

and it was always the same response from old and young "Roy is Just Too Damn Quick For Dat Boy. Ain't Nobody Gone Ever Beat Roy."

Something along these lines Everybody made it seem as if Roy just in a realm that no fighter could ever touch he was just

too cunning and just too incredibly fast. Damn near to the point that he was so good people weren't excited because they already knew

how it was going to happen.

With Mayweather come on now....everytime he fights the sports bars as packed like it's the superbowl and it has been this way when he

fought Judah, De La Hoya, Mosely, Ortiz, Cotto, Hatton, and Canelo. I am talking about droves of people NO SITTING ROOM UNLESS YOU

HAPPENED TO GET THERE EARLY. That's an icon in my eyes if everytime I fight it's like a damn superbowl or game 7 atmosphere. That's not

icon status??? $45million for the Cotto fight and $50 million for the canelo? That's not being considered an icon?

If so many people were talking about jones then why weren't they buying his fights?

Tyson and Ali are a clear level above the others with maybe louis in there.

There is a second level with oscar, johnson, sugars ray x2, maybe JCC. Call them icons if you want.

George Foreman is more known for selling grills than boxing.

We're talking about all time icons and the name Marciano is not even mentioned once?

bnovelist wrote:I know one thing....during Roy Jones's reign on the streets even the not so casual boxing fans talked about Roy Jones Jr. Everybody from what

I saw knew exactly who Roy Jones Jr was EVERYONE. On many early saturdays chatting about what would happen that night when Roy fought

and it was always the same response from old and young "Roy is Just Too Damn Quick For Dat Boy. Ain't Nobody Gone Ever Beat Roy."

Something along these lines Everybody made it seem as if Roy just in a realm that no fighter could ever touch he was just

too cunning and just too incredibly fast. Damn near to the point that he was so good people weren't excited because they already knew

how it was going to happen.

With Mayweather come on now....everytime he fights the sports bars as packed like it's the superbowl and it has been this way when he

fought Judah, De La Hoya, Mosely, Ortiz, Cotto, Hatton, and Canelo. I am talking about droves of people NO SITTING ROOM UNLESS YOU

HAPPENED TO GET THERE EARLY. That's an icon in my eyes if everytime I fight it's like a damn superbowl or game 7 atmosphere. That's not

icon status??? $45million for the Cotto fight and $50 million for the canelo? That's not being considered an icon?

streetz and worldwide star are 2 different things.

jockpunk wrote:If so many people were talking about jones then why weren't they buying his fights?

Tyson and Ali are a clear level above the others with maybe louis in there.

There is a second level with oscar, johnson, sugars ray x2, maybe JCC. Call them icons if you want.

George Foreman is more known for selling grills than boxing.

finaly soebody makes sense

Tony1244 wrote:You're right about the list being challenged, but I reckon that was kind of the point.

I agree on: Jack Johnson, Joe Louis, Ray Robinson, Tyson, and Muhammad Ali.

These are names that non-boxing people know.

I would have put Jack Dempsey on the list. He was larger than life.

I would put Ray Leonard and George Foreman on the list and take off RJJ and Mayweather. Great fighters, not sure they're icons.

Can't say I disagree with any of that, though Big George as much for his grills as for boxing. Foreman is definitely better known among the non-boxing community than RJJ or Mayweather.

bnovelist wrote:I know one thing....during Roy Jones's reign on the streets even the not so casual boxing fans talked about Roy Jones Jr. Everybody from what

I saw knew exactly who Roy Jones Jr was EVERYONE. On many early saturdays chatting about what would happen that night when Roy fought

and it was always the same response from old and young "Roy is Just Too Damn Quick For Dat Boy. Ain't Nobody Gone Ever Beat Roy."

Something along these lines Everybody made it seem as if Roy just in a realm that no fighter could ever touch he was just

too cunning and just too incredibly fast. Damn near to the point that he was so good people weren't excited because they already knew

how it was going to happen.

With Mayweather come on now....everytime he fights the sports bars as packed like it's the superbowl and it has been this way when he

fought Judah, De La Hoya, Mosely, Ortiz, Cotto, Hatton, and Canelo. I am talking about droves of people NO SITTING ROOM UNLESS YOU

HAPPENED TO GET THERE EARLY. That's an icon in my eyes if everytime I fight it's like a damn superbowl or game 7 atmosphere. That's not

icon status??? $45million for the Cotto fight and $50 million for the canelo? That's not being considered an icon?

Jones and Mayweather are well known, no doubt, they're just not an the same level as Ali or Tyson. Most non-boxing fans wouldn't know what Jones or Mayweather look like.

Dempsey was more famous than Babe Ruth. Icon. No list without him. PAC Man is easily as famous if not more worldwide than Mayweather.

I'd bet my house on more people knowing the name Rocky Marciano than Jack Johnson.

I think some of the younger fans on here may not realise just how big boxing was prior to 1970 and the advent of PPV and satellite. Boxing was apart from Soccer, by far the most popular sport in the world and the interest in newspapers, radios and community TVs was massive. Publications like Ring magazine were sold all over the world.

Even in the 80s when Barry Mcguigan boxed Eusebio Perdroza in the UK the TV audience was estimated at over 15 million households-probably over half the households in the UK watching. Roll forward a few years and Joe Calzaghe is getting around 150,000 viewers on satellite or PPV.

When I went to school in the 70s most boys would be able to name most of the champions of the world in most weight categories, even national amateur champions.

If you are talking about Icons in the sense that people under 30/40 wouldnt know them then fair enough, you probably do have to stick to Tyson, Ali and maybe Foreman but if you are talking about men who transcended the sport at the time they were active you would have to have in running order

John L sullivan
Jack Johnson
Jack Dempsey
Joe Louis
Sugar Ray Robinson (he did a sold out world tour ffs!)
Rocky Marciano
Ali
Foreman
Tyson

At the periphery maybe also Henry Armstrong, Marvin Hagler and Sugar RL and Duran. Also massive in their day. These are people that wherever you went in the world at that time people would be talking about.

;;-)

Exoddus wrote:I'd bet my house on more people knowing the name Rocky Marciano than Jack Johnson.

You would win your bet. Doesn't mean Rocky was more culturally significant though. More people know the name Beyonce than Bob Dylan. Johnson, Rocky, and Dylan are cultural icons. Beyonce looks great bouncing. I've made better analogies.

jezzamundo wrote:

Tony1244 wrote:You're right about the list being challenged, but I reckon that was kind of the point.

I agree on: Jack Johnson, Joe Louis, Ray Robinson, Tyson, and Muhammad Ali.

These are names that non-boxing people know.

I would have put Jack Dempsey on the list. He was larger than life.

I would put Ray Leonard and George Foreman on the list and take off RJJ and Mayweather. Great fighters, not sure they're icons.

Can't say I disagree with any of that, though Big George as much for his grills as for boxing. Foreman is definitely better known among the non-boxing community than RJJ or Mayweather.

There are people who only know the name George Foreman because of the grills. You'd have to explain to some of them he was a boxer. I remember someone who knew Paul McCartney as a Wing, not a Beatle. Amazing planet we live on.

Bnov dropping gems. As usual.

Where the heck is ROCKY MARCIANO?????

Tony1244 wrote:;;-)

Exoddus wrote:I'd bet my house on more people knowing the name Rocky Marciano than Jack Johnson.

You would win your bet. Doesn't mean Rocky was more culturally significant though. More people know the name Beyonce than Bob Dylan.

Then what are the criteria of cultural significance and why Jack Jonhson wins with Rocky in that case? Nice analogy but Rocky isn't "Beyonce of boxing".

I agree Jack Dempsey should be there. Floyd is a Tool but I think history will dictate he should be there. We all have favourites I know and mine is Duran. Whack him in at number 8 please

punchoutsb wrote:No Dempsey, no care.

Jack D, of course, and John L Sullivan, the first superstar of boxing.

Tony1244 wrote:

J-C wrote:John L Sullivan was possibly the first sporting icon

John L. Sullivan was a tremendous name in his time. His name was as important in his time as Lebron James is today in the African American community or as big as I imagine the name Klitschko is in Eastern Europe today.

Young people today who are not boxing fans do not know the names Jack Johnson, John L. Sullivan, and Jack Dempsey, but they sure as Hell should !

Indeed, the first superstar of boxing.

Any list without Jack Dempsey is a joke.

Then what are the criteria of cultural significance and why Jack Jonhson wins with Rocky in that case? Nice analogy but Rocky isn't "Beyonce of boxing".[/quote]



That's correct. Maybe I should go edit that a little.

They're both great watching with the sound off though.