BoxRec

ikorolev wrote:

SNG wrote:

ikorolev wrote:I can't believe how unimpressive Groves is against this B level fighter. Anthony Dirrell is right: Groves doesn't deserve a title shot at this time.

-- Do you only get title shots for winning in style now?

-- No, you are supposed to be getting title shots by beating top 10 opponents, and when you fight nobodies, you need to at least look good.

Is this not for some intercontinental belt or something, isn't he top ten in that belts rankings?

I am talking about a real title shot. WBC is now expected to order Dirrell to defend against Groves.

I know what you mean, and I'm asking is he not in the WBCs top ten? They're fighting for some WBC something or other aren't they?

SNG wrote:
I know what you mean, and I'm asking is he not in the WBCs top ten? They're fighting for some WBC something or other aren't they?

Rebrasse is No.3 with WBC

flynn25 wrote:

SNG wrote:
I know what you mean, and I'm asking is he not in the WBCs top ten? They're fighting for some WBC something or other aren't they?

Rebrasse is No.3 with WBC

flynn25 wrote:

SNG wrote:
I know what you mean, and I'm asking is he not in the WBCs top ten? They're fighting for some WBC something or other aren't they?

Rebrasse is No.3 with WBC

Right, because WBC SMW rankings don't include many of real top 10. ... and how is Rebrasse higher than Bika, Andre Dirrell and some others who are included ?

ikorolev wrote:

flynn25 wrote:

SNG wrote:
I know what you mean, and I'm asking is he not in the WBCs top ten? They're fighting for some WBC something or other aren't they?

Rebrasse is No.3 with WBC

Right, because WBC SMW rankings don't include many of real top 10. ... and how is Rebrasse higher than Bika, Andre Dirrell and some others who are included ?

Name the top 10 guy Dirrell beat to get a title shot...

There is no 'real' top ten.

SNG wrote:There is no 'real' top ten.

Of course, there is. People can argue who they are, but nobody would include most of WBC top 10. You can argue about order, but top 10 definitely include

Ward
Froch
Kessler
Abraham
Anthony D.
JCCJ
Bika

Candidates for the other 3 spots:
DeGale
Groves
Stieglitz
Rodriguez
Andre D.
,,,

Rebrasse would be beaten by another 15 SMWs including some journeymen.

Again, there is no real top ten. There is a general consensus amongst fans, I can't disagree there, but there is a reason why different fighters make up different top tens.

SNG wrote:Again, there is no real top ten. There is a general consensus amongst fans, I can't disagree there, but there is a reason why different fighters make up different top tens.

And what would be a reason for Rebrasse to be #3 when there are 25 fighters who can beat him ?

ikorolev wrote:

SNG wrote:Again, there is no real top ten. There is a general consensus amongst fans, I can't disagree there, but there is a reason why different fighters make up different top tens.

And what would be a reason for Rebrasse to be #3 when there are 25 fighters who can beat him ?

Because of who he's fought and where they were ranked in the WBCs rankings. I can't believe you think the organisations rankings should be based on who are the best fighters in the division regardless of who they fought and where they were ranked. They'd all be the same.

SNG wrote:

ikorolev wrote:

SNG wrote:Again, there is no real top ten. There is a general consensus amongst fans, I can't disagree there, but there is a reason why different fighters make up different top tens.

And what would be a reason for Rebrasse to be #3 when there are 25 fighters who can beat him ?

Because of who he's fought and where they were ranked in the WBCs rankings. I can't believe you think the organisations rankings should be based on who are the best fighters in the division regardless of who they fought and where they were ranked. They'd all be the same.

Fans, Ring, boxrec, etc. make their lists based exactly on who and how boxers fought. The only difference is how opposition was ranked. ABC federations obviously suck at that, and yes, ideally their lists should be pretty close to each other. Correction: ideally, there should be one list.

He was number 10 based on who he had beaten with the IWBR, the highest ranked fighter Rebbasse had beaten was ranked 18. It is Groves best win. 168 is a pretty weak division though very little strength outside the top 6 or 7. www.independentworldboxingrankings.com

Lennox wrote:He was number 10 based on who he had beaten with the IWBR, the highest ranked fighter Rebbasse had beaten was ranked 18. It is Groves best win. 168 is a pretty weak division though very little strength outside the top 6 or 7. http://www.independentworldboxingrankings.com

Boxrec has Rebrasse at #20 which sounds about right to me.

I don't care about all that. I think Groves-Dirrell is an interesting fight between two fairly evenly matched Super Middleweights.

Boxing Prospect wrote:Szot is a REALLY good journeyman, taking him on this early is great for Campbell who has not looked that great so far.

I agree. Stopping Szot was a nice statement by Campbell! I was impressed although i think the timing had something to do with it... Szot has been becoming more vulnerable with time.





Card Hls here for those who missed it:
http://img1.imagilive.com/0914/download67d.jpg

ENJOY!!

Ikorolev - but you said based on who they had fought. If you check out who the top 20/30 super-middles have fought you will see two things; 1- Rebrasse is ranked 10 on his achievement 2- There are a lot of fighters that have dodged a lot of fighters.

People like Callum Smith, Chudinov, Vlasov, Sanchez have yet to be tested. They have not done better yet on the basis of who they fought. Looking a two fighters and saying one is better is subjective on that basis Rebrasse I agree looks a touch high at 10.

ikorolev wrote:

SNG wrote:There is no 'real' top ten.

Of course, there is. People can argue who they are, but nobody would include most of WBC top 10. You can argue about order, but top 10 definitely include

Ward
Froch
Kessler
Abraham
Anthony D.
JCCJ
Bika

Candidates for the other 3 spots:
DeGale
Groves
Stieglitz
Rodriguez
Andre D.
,,,

Rebrasse would be beaten by another 15 SMWs including some journeymen.

I've never heard such nonsense in my life - 'of course there is a real top ten'... then going on to name 7 and saying the other three spots are between five guys! That proves there isn't a real top ten!

honestly, this should be the start of his comeback, not one of these win one then fight for the world title.

Rebrasse - ranked #3 in the WBC's ranking (former French super-mid champ, 3 fights as EBU champ, won-defended-lost) does he compare to Dirrell... no

George needs to defend this EBU title once or twice, fight near world level opponents, go over to fight in America and be ready for the world championship both when he fights for it and once he has won a championship and when he defends it, otherwise this one fight win and losing when it comes to world title fight will damage his career

northern wrote:honestly, this should be the start of his comeback, not one of these win one then fight for the world title.

Rebrasse - ranked #3 in the WBC's ranking (former French super-mid champ, 3 fights as EBU champ, won-defended-lost) does he compare to Dirrell... no

George needs to defend this EBU title once or twice, fight near world level opponents, go over to fight in America and be ready for the world championship both when he fights for it and once he has won a championship and when he defends it, otherwise this one fight win and losing when it comes to world title fight will damage his career

I agree with this.

Groves in all likelihood will have 3KO defeats and a points win over Rebrasse as his last 4 fights if he fights Dirrell next.

That's not a good look at all and could well spell the beginning of the end of a short career.

A couple of European defences would be the sensible move.

I think his ego won't allow this and will be his undoing.

He didn't look good at all last night vs an opponent almost everbody expected him to steamroll past.

sharpei_louis wrote:

ikorolev wrote:

SNG wrote:There is no 'real' top ten.

Of course, there is. People can argue who they are, but nobody would include most of WBC top 10. You can argue about order, but top 10 definitely include

Ward
Froch
Kessler
Abraham
Anthony D.
JCCJ
Bika

Candidates for the other 3 spots:
DeGale
Groves
Stieglitz
Rodriguez
Andre D.
,,,

Rebrasse would be beaten by another 15 SMWs including some journeymen.

I've never heard such nonsense in my life - 'of course there is a real top ten'... then going on to name 7 and saying the other three spots are between five guys! That proves there isn't a real top ten!

I guess you never read full posts. Different criteria would produce different lists, but most of good lists would be very close to each other, and none of such lists would have Rebrasse in top 10, as there are at least 12 fighters better than him BASED ON RESUME and 25 fighters better than him based on skills.

You still haven't replied to my post ikorolev, you named your top 12 and Dirrell didn't beat any of them to deserve his title shot, so you think Dirrell didn't deserve an opportunity in the first place?

I just watched the Groves - Rebrasse fight again and I think Rebrasse is a much better opponent that you are crediting him for, he might j be outside the top 10 on subjectivity but he has fought better opponents than many. Groves clearly beat Rebrasse perhaps 10-2 on rounds maybe 11-1, but it was 60-40% work rate/ scoring punches. Lot of undefeated super-middles untested and a few that were thought to be the dogsb***** recently tasted a loss. Bika's best days are behind him though I still think he would beat Rebrasse but would lose to Groves. Dirrell-Groves is 50/50.

digzee wrote:You still haven't replied to my post ikorolev, you named your top 12 and Dirrell didn't beat any of them to deserve his title shot, so you think Dirrell didn't deserve an opportunity in the first place?

Maybe he didn't, or maybe it is supposed to be top 15-20.

Lennox wrote:I just watched the Groves - Rebrasse fight again and I think Rebrasse is a much better opponent that you are crediting him for, he might j be outside the top 10 on subjectivity but he has fought better opponents than many. Groves clearly beat Rebrasse perhaps 10-2 on rounds maybe 11-1, but it was 60-40% work rate/ scoring punches. Lot of undefeated super-middles untested and a few that were thought to be the dogsb***** recently tasted a loss. Bika's best days are behind him though I still think he would beat Rebrasse but would lose to Groves. Dirrell-Groves is 50/50.

I think Bika would beat Groves. I think he would stop him. Can't see Groves knocking him out and I just think Bika's rough house style would be too much.

Lennox wrote:I just watched the Groves - Rebrasse fight again and I think Rebrasse is a much better opponent that you are crediting him for, he might j be outside the top 10 on subjectivity but he has fought better opponents than many.

There are nearly 1000 fighters at 168 so of course Rebrasse has faced better opponents than many, as loads of guys have fought terrible opposition. While he's solid, I don't believe he's close to being one of the ten best fighters at the weight and his only win of note was over Ndiaye, who I don't think was ever close to the top ten either. BoxRec's ranking of 24 sounds about right.

And I don't have a problem with Groves getting a title shot, as there are very few people in the division with a stronger claim in my opinion. I think there's a good chance he loses to Dirrell though so it's a risky move, especially after losing 2 of his last 3. Abraham is much more beatable in my view, though Sauerland may be trying to acquire as many belts as possible and AA-Groves would only maintain whatever figure they have at the time, while Dirrell-Groves could increase it and create a relatively lucrative unification with AA (or Kess if wins the IBF belt).