BoxRec

Bobbyptsd wrote:

Perseus wrote:Realistically, father time should have shut down Hopkins career as a top boxer AT LEAST 10 years ago.
Probably closer to 15 years, not many middleweights are still on top in their late 30's.

Kovalev can't prove himself to be great in this fight...............proving greatness just is not possible when in the ring with anyone who is 8 weeks or so from being 50-years-old.


Kovalev can either get exposed as extremely overrated or be the guy that finally convinced an old man to retire.
I'm expecting the latter but we'll see.

I think, as there so often is, that there is nuance to be seen here. I don't think he can prove himself to be great in this one fight, but he can prove an awful lot. Almost 50 or not, punishing Bernard Hopkins into retirement would show that he's easily the best fighter in the division now, at least.

I mean, I don't see anyone else doing it. I've been saying on threads ever since he stopped Dawson, that Stevenson is the real champ at 175, but I'm not sure I believe that anymore. I certainly wouldn't expect him to beat, much less punish, this yet still older version of Hopkins.

Ironically, I think time, of all things, may have caught up with Stevenson, actually.

What makes you think that mate? Bar his age I mean.

lefty wrote:

Bobbyptsd wrote:

Perseus wrote:Realistically, father time should have shut down Hopkins career as a top boxer AT LEAST 10 years ago.
Probably closer to 15 years, not many middleweights are still on top in their late 30's.

Kovalev can't prove himself to be great in this fight...............proving greatness just is not possible when in the ring with anyone who is 8 weeks or so from being 50-years-old.


Kovalev can either get exposed as extremely overrated or be the guy that finally convinced an old man to retire.
I'm expecting the latter but we'll see.

I think, as there so often is, that there is nuance to be seen here. I don't think he can prove himself to be great in this one fight, but he can prove an awful lot. Almost 50 or not, punishing Bernard Hopkins into retirement would show that he's easily the best fighter in the division now, at least.

I mean, I don't see anyone else doing it. I've been saying on threads ever since he stopped Dawson, that Stevenson is the real champ at 175, but I'm not sure I believe that anymore. I certainly wouldn't expect him to beat, much less punish, this yet still older version of Hopkins.

Ironically, I think time, of all things, may have caught up with Stevenson, actually.

What makes you think that mate? Bar his age I mean.

Bobby may have different reasons, but Stevenson's obvious hesitance to fight Kovalev, Hopkins and Pascal makes me think that his confidence is gone.

Kovey's a decent enough fighter for one of those Eastern Europeans, but he lacks a good jab, polish, and judging from several of his recent bouts, he's cut-prone.
Hopkins will take advantage of all of these flaws, bust him up and take Kovalev into deep waters.
He'll drown.

When he finds he can't compete with the technically superior Hopkins, he'll be left with only his big punch. That won't bother a master like Hopkins, whose been in with bangers before and has never been KO'd in his quarter-century career. Kovalev won't be the first.
Big punchers like him are always eventually exposed by elite warriors like Hopkins.

Kovalev's power might beat most, but he's in over his head against a legendary technician in Hopkins.

lefty wrote:

Bobbyptsd wrote:

Perseus wrote:Realistically, father time should have shut down Hopkins career as a top boxer AT LEAST 10 years ago.
Probably closer to 15 years, not many middleweights are still on top in their late 30's.

Kovalev can't prove himself to be great in this fight...............proving greatness just is not possible when in the ring with anyone who is 8 weeks or so from being 50-years-old.


Kovalev can either get exposed as extremely overrated or be the guy that finally convinced an old man to retire.
I'm expecting the latter but we'll see.

I think, as there so often is, that there is nuance to be seen here. I don't think he can prove himself to be great in this one fight, but he can prove an awful lot. Almost 50 or not, punishing Bernard Hopkins into retirement would show that he's easily the best fighter in the division now, at least.

I mean, I don't see anyone else doing it. I've been saying on threads ever since he stopped Dawson, that Stevenson is the real champ at 175, but I'm not sure I believe that anymore. I certainly wouldn't expect him to beat, much less punish, this yet still older version of Hopkins.

Ironically, I think time, of all things, may have caught up with Stevenson, actually.

What makes you think that mate? Bar his age I mean.

He just hasn't seemed to bring the same force, at least against Fonfara, and I also believe he had to work a bit harder against Bellew than he would have a bit earlier. Seeing as he is 37, I don't think he's likely to bounce back and start KO'ing guys in 1 or beating them down the way he did Cloud.

@Perseus: The reason I said it's ironic, is because we are always talking about Bernard's age, when it's possible that it could be affecting Stevenson 13 years earlier. Of course, as you pointed out, that is common. But it also applies to Bernard, or one would think, he's just somehow adapted so well that it has been a relative non-issue But guys weren't beating him down brutally at 46, 47,48, 49. If someone does it just before he turns 50, it would still make a statement, was my point.

To put it another way, if Kovalev were to come in and brutalize Stevenson, I still think it makes a statement, regardless whether I think he's slowed a bit with age or not. There is middle ground between "This win proves his ATG status" and "This win means nothing".

ikorolev wrote:In order for Sergey to be declared great, he needs to beat Hopkins, Stevenson and Beterbiev.

Whoah on Beterbiev. I like him and I think he'll go far but he's a 6-fight novice. Need to see him in with the type of guys Kovalev has beaten (someone like Agnew who can go a few rounds) before you can really class him as a defining win for Sergey.

fergusg wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:

ikorolev wrote:In order for Sergey to be declared great, he needs to beat Hopkins, Stevenson and Beterbiev.

Whoah on Beterbiev. I like him and I think he'll go far but he's a 6-fight novice. Need to see him in with the type of guys Kovalev has beaten (someone like Agnew who can go a few rounds) before you can really class him as a defining win for Sergey.

I agree with this sentiment. I don’t believe for one second that any fighter can automatically assume “greatness” based on victories over a 50 year old man, a six-fight novice and a seemingly-vulnerable Adonis Stevenson.

Agree with what centiment ? Nobody said anything to support your statement. Kovalev beating top 2 fighters in this strong division plus the best prospect having crushing power and having defeated him in amateurs should certainly make him a great LHW. Nobody is talking about ATG status here.

I agree about Kovalev not being able to prove his greatness. This is through no fault of his own though, as the LHW division is weak.

VG_Addict wrote:I agree about Kovalev not being able to prove his greatness. This is through no fault of his own though, as the LHW division is weak.

Are you f4king kidding me ? LHWs who lose like Cleverly and Bellew prefer to run to CW division. No top SMW including #2 P4P are in a rush to move up. The division is very strong.

ikorolev wrote:

VG_Addict wrote:I agree about Kovalev not being able to prove his greatness. This is through no fault of his own though, as the LHW division is weak.

Are you f4king kidding me ? LHWs who lose like Cleverly and Bellew prefer to run to CW division. No top SMW including #2 P4P are in a rush to move up. The division is very strong.

That's one way of looking at it. I think LHW is an average division, with exception of the few at the top being far above the rest and extreme risks. The division now has 3 brutal and skilled power punchers when most divisions don't even have 1. Then you have Hopkins who is up to his gills in guile. If Kovalev were to do the impossible and stop Hopkins, that'd be a start to some level of "greatness". Today's Hopkins would still school the "greats" like Winky and Tito. If someone were to stop Hopkins, that accomplishment alone would be a certain measure of greatness.

Riddick Blowe wrote:

ikorolev wrote:In order for Sergey to be declared great, he needs to beat Hopkins, Stevenson and Beterbiev.

Whoah on Beterbiev. I like him and I think he'll go far but he's a 6-fight novice. Need to see him in with the type of guys Kovalev has beaten (someone like Agnew who can go a few rounds) before you can really class him as a defining win for Sergey.

Don't forget who you are talking to. Beterbiev is probably #4 on his pfp list now behind Golovkin, Kovalev and Provodnikov

Provo's low ring IQ will never allow him to get on p4p list. If Kovalev beats these three, he will definitely belong to top 5 p4p.

P4P lists are worth about as much as grocery lists when it comes to measuring a fighter, maybe even less.

Riddick Blowe wrote:Ward will avoid him, for good reason.

No he won't.

Blodhemn wrote:

ikorolev wrote:

VG_Addict wrote:I agree about Kovalev not being able to prove his greatness. This is through no fault of his own though, as the LHW division is weak.

Are you f4king kidding me ? LHWs who lose like Cleverly and Bellew prefer to run to CW division. No top SMW including #2 P4P are in a rush to move up. The division is very strong.

That's one way of looking at it. I think LHW is an average division, with exception of the few at the top being far above the rest and extreme risks. The division now has 3 brutal and skilled power punchers when most divisions don't even have 1. Then you have Hopkins who is up to his gills in guile. If Kovalev were to do the impossible and stop Hopkins, that'd be a start to some level of "greatness". Today's Hopkins would still school the "greats" like Winky and Tito. If someone were to stop Hopkins, that accomplishment alone would be a certain measure of greatness.

That certain measure being absolute ZERO.

He's just shy of 50 ffs.
He's not supposed to beat or even be competitive with the Kovalev's of the world for the past decade.
Eventually what is supposed to happen to boxers his age and nearly 10 years younger than him has to happen, father time has had to work hard to get Hopkins but he will win.

That's ludicrous. Hopkins is still the most savvy fighter in the sport. How many times will people say father time next to Bernard's name? It's not going to happen over night. If someone were to stop Hopkins, it'd be a huge statement. It wouldn't surprise me if Hopkins sees 12 and loses by decision, but if Kovalev is able to stop him, that's quite an accomplishment that the sport takes notice of.

diddy wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:Ward will avoid him, for good reason.

No he won't.

We'll see.

Blodhemn wrote:That's ludicrous. Hopkins is still the most savvy fighter in the sport. How many times will people say father time next to Bernard's name? It's not going to happen over night. If someone were to stop Hopkins, it'd be a huge statement. It wouldn't surprise me if Hopkins sees 12 and loses by decision, but if Kovalev is able to stop him, that's quite an accomplishment that the sport takes notice of.

It will indeed happen over night.
He is too far advanced in age for it to happen any other way.
On top of that anybody who has seen him fight can see the adjustments he made over the years to deal with his declining stamina and athleticism.
Savvy and experience don't matter when the body just can't do it anymore.
His birthdays are so far beyond the point where most boxers can't get it done anymore it's almost ridiculous and certainly beyond the point of any opponent deserving praise for a victory of any kind over him.
If you're in or even near your prime you're supposed to beat the guys in their 40's..............................that's early 40's.....................this one has advanced to almost 50.

Blodhemn wrote:That's ludicrous. Hopkins is still the most savvy fighter in the sport. How many times will people say father time next to Bernard's name? It's not going to happen over night. If someone were to stop Hopkins, it'd be a huge statement. It wouldn't surprise me if Hopkins sees 12 and loses by decision, but if Kovalev is able to stop him, that's quite an accomplishment that the sport takes notice of.

Kovalev is stopping Hopkins. I am dead sure about that. Watch him get hurt and dropped against Pascal, years ago, and then imagine him lasting 12 vs a vicious punching natural 175 pounder with a style based on bloodthirst. it doesn't correlate. Hopkins is getting destroyed. It might take eight rounds.

Perseus wrote:

Blodhemn wrote:That's ludicrous. Hopkins is still the most savvy fighter in the sport. How many times will people say father time next to Bernard's name? It's not going to happen over night. If someone were to stop Hopkins, it'd be a huge statement. It wouldn't surprise me if Hopkins sees 12 and loses by decision, but if Kovalev is able to stop him, that's quite an accomplishment that the sport takes notice of.

It will indeed happen over night.
He is too far advanced in age for it to happen any other way.
On top of that anybody who has seen him fight can see the adjustments he made over the years to deal with his declining stamina and athleticism.
Savvy and experience don't matter when the body just can't do it anymore.
His birthdays are so far beyond the point where most boxers can't get it done anymore it's almost ridiculous and certainly beyond the point of any opponent deserving praise for a victory of any kind over him.
If you're in or even near your prime you're supposed to beat the guys in their 40's..............................that's early 40's.....................this one has advanced to almost 50.

Hopkins would still school or at the least give someone like Froch a lot of trouble. There's no one in the sport with the savvy of Hopkins. Just scraping by with a decision against Hopkins wouldn't do a whole lot for a career, but a beatdown with a stoppage would. But apparently that happens all the time eh? Give me a break. Hopkins isn't getting old over night, he's taken too good of care of himself. It's a gradual decline.. and it's apparent that he's slowed down but not to the level that he still can't school most fighters around his weight.

Riddick Blowe wrote:

Blodhemn wrote:That's ludicrous. Hopkins is still the most savvy fighter in the sport. How many times will people say father time next to Bernard's name? It's not going to happen over night. If someone were to stop Hopkins, it'd be a huge statement. It wouldn't surprise me if Hopkins sees 12 and loses by decision, but if Kovalev is able to stop him, that's quite an accomplishment that the sport takes notice of.

Kovalev is stopping Hopkins. I am dead sure about that. Watch him get hurt and dropped against Pascal, years ago, and then imagine him lasting 12 vs a vicious punching natural 175 pounder with a style based on bloodthirst. it doesn't correlate. Hopkins is getting destroyed. It might take eight rounds.

True, unless Bernard manages to open a cut on Sergey's face early.

ikorolev wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:

Blodhemn wrote:That's ludicrous. Hopkins is still the most savvy fighter in the sport. How many times will people say father time next to Bernard's name? It's not going to happen over night. If someone were to stop Hopkins, it'd be a huge statement. It wouldn't surprise me if Hopkins sees 12 and loses by decision, but if Kovalev is able to stop him, that's quite an accomplishment that the sport takes notice of.

Kovalev is stopping Hopkins. I am dead sure about that. Watch him get hurt and dropped against Pascal, years ago, and then imagine him lasting 12 vs a vicious punching natural 175 pounder with a style based on bloodthirst. it doesn't correlate. Hopkins is getting destroyed. It might take eight rounds.

True, unless Bernard manages to open a cut on Sergey's face early.

I can imagine the fight being scrappy as fornicate. Hopkins will be employing a lot of lateral movement and then when he starts to get pinned near the ropes he'll be clinging on for dear life, rabbit punching and god knows what else I imagine. I think the fight would of been intriguing 5 or 6 years ago even but Hopkins just doesnt have it in him anymore to deal with a fighter like Kovalev IMO.