World Top 30 P4P October 2014

[ikorolev]

@Horse:

Hopkins is #9. Does it mean that Kovalev will take that position after he beats him in November ?

[Horse]

Dawson wasn’t fighting in his natural habitat, was weight-drained and had even been KO’d during training for the Ward fight by Edison Miranda, which means he was damaged goods entering that bout.

Whilst, Rodriguez was a very borderline top 10 contender (at best) and his resume was quite poor for someone with such a high rank at the time he fought Andre Ward.

Technically-speaking, neither Dawson nor Rodriguez were fighting in their natural habitat when they fought Andre Ward, as both men were light-heavyweights and were weight-drained.

In terms of world-level wins, I couldn’t find any boxing writers that gave Dawson or Rodriguez any chance whatsoever of defeating Ward.

Therefore, I fail to see why Ward retains his number two pound-for-pound rank when the calibre of opposition, coupled with the amount of times he’s fought in the last three years, almost certainly doesn’t warrant such recognition!

It’s your prerogative to rank your fighters however you deem fit, but Ward’s ranking doesn’t seem logical to me.

Ring still have him at No. 2.

I think he's still the consensus No. 2.

He'll start to drop at some point soon, but not yet.

[Horse]

But 2 years is inactive? As V. Klitschko is off your list.

Vitali's record isn't as good as Ward's. Vitali could afford to be inactive less than Ward.

Will Haye be making a reappearance if he fights soon?

I doubt it.

[Horse]

Nice list.IMO, Alvarez too high, might move up Yamanaka and Kovalev a spot or two, wouldn't include Herrera although I understand why you did,

I thought Alvarez won fairly clearly against Lara, so I rate him higher than most.

Yamanaka's got a fight this month, so I'll likely move him up a bit next month if he wins.

Kovalev's got that big fight with Hopkins soon, so I'll probably wait for that before moving Kovalev around too much.

I thought Herrera beat Garcia by 5 points, so I found it hard to justify keeping him out whilst Garcia is still in the rankings.

wouldn't include Frampton yet based on two wins over Kiko (although I think he will earn it soon enough) would probably substitute Uchiyama, Narvaes or Nietes, but don't feel super strongly about it

Frampton also has easy stoppage wins against Molitor and Cazares which helped his case for a place, even though they were well past their best.

Uchiyama has been inactive for over 9 months and he doesn't have a fight lined up. Does he plan on continuing?

Narvaez hasn't really done anything that great recently. I don't think he deserves a place. Am I being unfair?

Nietes is close to a place after his last win. It would be good if he could follow up on that with another big win though.

[Horse]

@Horse:

Hopkins is #9. Does it mean that Kovalev will take that position after he beats him in November ?

He'll probably be at about that ranking if he wins.

[crusader]

Ward has fought within the last year and I don't see how Rodriguez was on a lower-level than someone like George Groves going into the fight (maybe Ward should've went life and death with Rodriguez to boost the latter's reputation and hence his get more credit for beating him; see Froch-Groves). I get that Ward has been relatively inactive and that consensus number two spot is looking more precarious each day, but for now I don't see the problem with rating him so high.

[Horse]

Ward has fought within the year and I don't see how Rodriguez was on a lower-level than someone like George Groves going into the fight (maybe Ward should've went life and death with Rodriguez to boost the latter's reputation and hence his get more credit for beating him). I get that Ward has been relatively inactive, but for now I don't see the problem with rating him so high.

Yep, I'll wait for a year of inactivity before I start to drop him. I don't see the rush.

[Chepppaaa]

1. (1.) Floyd Mayweather Jr.
2. (2.) Andre Ward
3. (3.) Manny Pacquiao
4. (4.) Juan Manuel Marquez
5. (15.) Roman Gonzalez
6. (5.) Guillermo Rigondeaux
7. (7.) Carl Froch
8. (6.) Timothy Bradley
9. (8.) Bernard Hopkins
10. (9.) Saul Alvarez

11. (16.) Juan Francisco Estrada
12. (10.) Wladimir Klitschko
13. (11.) Gennady Golovkin
14. (12.) Adonis Stevenson
15. (13.) Mikey Garcia
16. (14.) Nonito Donaire
17. (17.) Miguel Cotto
18. (18.) Shinsuke Yamanaka
19. (19.) Sergey Kovalev
20. (21.) Terence Crawford

21. (20.) Danny Garcia
22. (23.) Leo Santa Cruz
23. (24.) Mauricio Herrera
24. (26.) Erislandy Lara
25. (27.) Kell Brook
26. (NE.) Carl Frampton
27. (22.) Marcos Maidana
28. (25.) Akira Yaegashi
29. (30.) Marco Huck
30. (28.) Jhonny Gonzalez

Out - (29.) Takashi Uchiyama

floyd is past it. younger p4p top level boxer would simply win against him. p4p sense lara, ggg and rigo beat him, no doubt in my mind.

ward stopped boxing.

marquez is overrated at this point.

hopkins is like 50 + and lost clear vs dawson, so dawson > X. adonis and kovelev, certinaly also beterbiev > dawson!!!! X doesnt play a role anymore, while what he did to shumanov at his age was extraordinary, no doubt. respect for that. but in elite p4p rank, he simply does not play a role. i would be shocked if X wins more than 3 rounds against kovalev, wont happen.

lets be reasonable.

1. rigondeaux
2. golovkin
3. lara
4. mayweather
5. pacquiao

the rest is a mix in no particular order of kovalev, adonis, gonzales, canelo, mickey, froch, bradley......

[stevedoc]

i think i'd have bradley above froch and danny garcia a bit higher but it's easy to be be to pedantic with someone else list ..

[Horse]

floyd is past it. younger p4p top level boxer would simply win against him. p4p sense lara, ggg and rigo beat him, no doubt in my mind.

ward stopped boxing.

marquez is overrated at this point.

hopkins is like 50 + and lost clear vs dawson, so dawson > X. adonis and kovelev, certinaly also beterbiev > dawson!!!! X doesnt play a role anymore, while what he did to shumanov at his age was extraordinary, no doubt. respect for that. but in elite p4p rank, he simply does not play a role. i would be shocked if X wins more than 3 rounds against kovalev, wont happen.

lets be reasonable.

1. rigondeaux
2. golovkin
3. lara
4. mayweather
5. pacquiao

the rest is a mix in no particular order of kovalev, adonis, gonzales, canelo, mickey, froch, bradley......

Mayweather is much better than Rigondeaux and Golovkin.

Lara just lost. He's not very good.

[Horse]

i think i'd have bradley above froch and danny garcia a bit higher but it's easy to be be to pedantic with someone else list ..

[giacomino]

Nice list.IMO, Alvarez too high, might move up Yamanaka and Kovalev a spot or two, wouldn't include Herrera although I understand why you did,

I thought Alvarez won fairly clearly against Lara, so I rate him higher than most.

Yamanaka's got a fight this month, so I'll likely move him up a bit next month if he wins.

Kovalev's got that big fight with Hopkins soon, so I'll probably wait for that before moving Kovalev around too much.

I thought Herrera beat Garcia by 5 points, so I found it hard to justify keeping him out whilst Garcia is still in the rankings.

wouldn't include Frampton yet based on two wins over Kiko (although I think he will earn it soon enough) would probably substitute Uchiyama, Narvaes or Nietes, but don't feel super strongly about it

Frampton also has easy stoppage wins against Molitor and Cazares which helped his case for a place, even though they were well past their best.

Uchiyama has been inactive for over 9 months and he doesn't have a fight lined up. Does he plan on continuing?

Narvaez hasn't really done anything that great recently. I don't think he deserves a place. Am I being unfair?

Nietes is close to a place after his last win. It would be good if he could follow up on that with another big win though.

Good points
Re: Frampton. Molitor was never more than a set up paper belt-holder and past it when Frampton fought him, and Cazares wad old and two-to-four divisions above his best weight. Frampton will eventually earn a spot
Re: Narvaez. At 39, I thought his recent win over his young, tough mandatory Orucuta, was impressive. I expected him to lose and was impressed he could still beat a much bigger, younger and harder hitting opponent. I might sneak him in at 30ish, although can't see him fighting much longer

[Chepppaaa]

floyd is past it. younger p4p top level boxer would simply win against him. p4p sense lara, ggg and rigo beat him, no doubt in my mind.

ward stopped boxing.

marquez is overrated at this point.

hopkins is like 50 + and lost clear vs dawson, so dawson > X. adonis and kovelev, certinaly also beterbiev > dawson!!!! X doesnt play a role anymore, while what he did to shumanov at his age was extraordinary, no doubt. respect for that. but in elite p4p rank, he simply does not play a role. i would be shocked if X wins more than 3 rounds against kovalev, wont happen.

lets be reasonable.

1. rigondeaux
2. golovkin
3. lara
4. mayweather
5. pacquiao

the rest is a mix in no particular order of kovalev, adonis, gonzales, canelo, mickey, froch, bradley......

Mayweather is much better than Rigondeaux and Golovkin.

Lara just lost. He's not very good.

you diont know boxing

[jezzamundo]

1. (1.) Floyd Mayweather Jr.
2. (2.) Andre Ward
3. (3.) Manny Pacquiao
4. (4.) Juan Manuel Marquez
5. (15.) Roman Gonzalez
6. (5.) Guillermo Rigondeaux
7. (7.) Carl Froch
8. (6.) Timothy Bradley
9. (8.) Bernard Hopkins
10. (9.) Saul Alvarez

11. (16.) Juan Francisco Estrada
12. (10.) Wladimir Klitschko
13. (11.) Gennady Golovkin
14. (12.) Adonis Stevenson
15. (13.) Mikey Garcia
16. (14.) Nonito Donaire
17. (17.) Miguel Cotto
18. (18.) Shinsuke Yamanaka
19. (19.) Sergey Kovalev
20. (21.) Terence Crawford

21. (20.) Danny Garcia
22. (23.) Leo Santa Cruz
23. (24.) Mauricio Herrera
24. (26.) Erislandy Lara
25. (27.) Kell Brook
26. (NE.) Carl Frampton
27. (22.) Marcos Maidana
28. (25.) Akira Yaegashi
29. (30.) Marco Huck
30. (28.) Jhonny Gonzalez

Out - (29.) Takashi Uchiyama

floyd is past it. younger p4p top level boxer would simply win against him. p4p sense lara, ggg and rigo beat him, no doubt in my mind.

ward stopped boxing.

marquez is overrated at this point.

hopkins is like 50 + and lost clear vs dawson, so dawson > X. adonis and kovelev, certinaly also beterbiev > dawson!!!! X doesnt play a role anymore, while what he did to shumanov at his age was extraordinary, no doubt. respect for that. but in elite p4p rank, he simply does not play a role. i would be shocked if X wins more than 3 rounds against kovalev, wont happen.

lets be reasonable.

1. rigondeaux
2. golovkin
3. lara
4. mayweather
5. pacquiao

the rest is a mix in no particular order of kovalev, adonis, gonzales, canelo, mickey, froch, bradley......

I tend to agree that BHop shouldn't be in the Top 10 P4P these days, though I'd slightly favour him over Adonis in a fight, I think Adonis should rank higher based on results.

GGG doesn't have the quality of opposition to be Top 5 - I think Horse has him ranked about right.

Lara shouldn't be Top 10

Mayweather is on the slide, but should still be #1, his performances and list of beaten foes in recent times is the best in boxing.

[Chepppaaa]

the amount of stupidity in this thread is so high.

most people here realy have no idea of boxing, they go by likes or records. they do not understand boxing, they do not understand who wins against who and why.


you guys list 41 years old, 49 years old boxers in here, or feather fiested overrated bradley, or technicly totaly outboxed canelo in a list of 10 boxers who are considered to be the 10 best boxers p4p on planet earth. i mean, the amount of dumnbess to list those kind of people and by going, "yeah well he got a good record"...so what!! evander holyfield got an record superior to every other boxer boxign right now, does that make him a 2014 top 10 p4p boxer? no, because a p4p rank is not about what happened in the 90's but who beats who right now, who is the best or amongs the best right now!!!

canelo, bradley, marquez, hopkins, ward are out of p4p. guys like lara, golovkin, kovalev, gonzales are in!!!


ward stopped and it is unsure when and if he comes back.

canelo had 0 chance vs lara. lara beat himself, because he simply stopped punching at all. while lara is dumb, no doubt, he still is an elite boxer, anybody who doesnt see his skill or athletic ability doesnt kow boxing.

kell brook would totaly technicly dominate bradley/ thurman would totaly brutalize bradley

marquez is past it, he should be nowhere a p4p list. he lost totaly to an overrated bradley and the only thing he did good, was having a lucky punch in a fight he was loosing, now he is old

X gonne get wrecked by kovalev, he has already been easily beating by a guy adonis needed around 5 minutes for

[jezzamundo]

the amount of stupidity in this thread is so high.

most people here realy have no idea of boxing, they go by likes or records. they do not understand boxing, they do not understand who wins against who and why.


you guys list 41 years old, 49 years old boxers in here, or feather fiested overrated bradley, or technicly totaly outboxed canelo in a list of 10 boxers who are considered to be the 10 best boxers p4p on planet earth. i mean, the amount of dumnbess to list those kind of people and by going, "yeah well he got a good record"...so what!! evander holyfield got an record superior to every other boxer boxign right now, does that make him a 2014 top 10 p4p boxer? no, because a p4p rank is not about what happened in the 90's but who beats who right now, who is the best or amongs the best right now!!!

canelo, bradley, marquez, hopkins, ward are out of p4p. guys like lara, golovkin, kovalev, gonzales are in!!!


ward stopped and it is unsure when and if he comes back.

canelo had 0 chance vs lara. lara beat himself, because he simply stopped punching at all. while lara is dumb, no doubt, he still is an elite boxer, anybody who doesnt see his skill or athletic ability doesnt kow boxing.

kell brook would totaly technicly dominate bradley/ thurman would totaly brutalize bradley

marquez is past it, he should be nowhere a p4p list. he lost totaly to an overrated bradley and the only thing he did good, was having a lucky punch in a fight he was loosing, now he is old

X gonne get wrecked by kovalev, he has already been easily beating by a guy adonis needed around 5 minutes for

You're not going to get a lot of respect around here by referring to opinions other than your own as stupidity. Different people have different ways of ranking fighters, which is something you should accept.

If you're making rankings for a particular weight division, it is fairest and makes the most sense to rank fighters based on their records, with a strong weighting towards the most recent results, their quality of opposition and how they fared against them.

With P4P ratings, it's a bit different, because you're often ranking fighters who are several weight classes apart. Frankly I've always found the notion of "who would win if they were the same size" to be ridiculous and not worthy of considering. If you blow up Roman Gonzales to middleweight, he's not going to fight the same. If you shrink Wlad down to middleweight, he's not going to fight the same. If somehow by magic, fighters were able to fight the same, regardless of size, then lighter weight fighters would almost always beat heavier fighters because they are faster and throw more punches.

Ultimately I think who-beats-who does need to be taken into consideration, particularly with fighters in similar weight classes, but it is often a lot like guesswork, particularly when you're looking at fighters who are unproven at the highest level. GGG is my favourite active fighter, but he's not in my P4P Top 10 because he doesn't have wins over A level competition. Yes, he has looked devastating in dispatching B level opponents, but I can't rank him over the likes of Tim Bradley and Carl Froch who have consistently fought and generally succeeded against a higher level of competition than GGG has even stepped into the ring with. I would slightly favour GGG to beat Froch in a fight, but with very little confidence because as a pro, GGG hasn't fought anyone of Froch's calibre.

If we ranked fighters based on how devastatingly they beat their opponents, regardless of their opponents' ability, then you'd have people ranking Deontay Wilder as the world's #1 heavyweight! Now THAT would be stupidity!

[Chepppaaa]

the amount of stupidity in this thread is so high.

most people here realy have no idea of boxing, they go by likes or records. they do not understand boxing, they do not understand who wins against who and why.


you guys list 41 years old, 49 years old boxers in here, or feather fiested overrated bradley, or technicly totaly outboxed canelo in a list of 10 boxers who are considered to be the 10 best boxers p4p on planet earth. i mean, the amount of dumnbess to list those kind of people and by going, "yeah well he got a good record"...so what!! evander holyfield got an record superior to every other boxer boxign right now, does that make him a 2014 top 10 p4p boxer? no, because a p4p rank is not about what happened in the 90's but who beats who right now, who is the best or amongs the best right now!!!

canelo, bradley, marquez, hopkins, ward are out of p4p. guys like lara, golovkin, kovalev, gonzales are in!!!


ward stopped and it is unsure when and if he comes back.

canelo had 0 chance vs lara. lara beat himself, because he simply stopped punching at all. while lara is dumb, no doubt, he still is an elite boxer, anybody who doesnt see his skill or athletic ability doesnt kow boxing.

kell brook would totaly technicly dominate bradley/ thurman would totaly brutalize bradley

marquez is past it, he should be nowhere a p4p list. he lost totaly to an overrated bradley and the only thing he did good, was having a lucky punch in a fight he was loosing, now he is old

X gonne get wrecked by kovalev, he has already been easily beating by a guy adonis needed around 5 minutes for

You're not going to get a lot of respect around here by referring to opinions other than your own as stupidity. Different people have different ways of ranking fighters, which is something you should accept.

If you're making rankings for a particular weight division, it is fairest and makes the most sense to rank fighters based on their records, with a strong weighting towards the most recent results, their quality of opposition and how they fared against them.

With P4P ratings, it's a bit different, because you're often ranking fighters who are several weight classes apart. Frankly I've always found the notion of "who would win if they were the same size" to be ridiculous and not worthy of considering. If you blow up Roman Gonzales to middleweight, he's not going to fight the same. If you shrink Wlad down to middleweight, he's not going to fight the same. If somehow by magic, fighters were able to fight the same, regardless of size, then lighter weight fighters would almost always beat heavier fighters because they are faster and throw more punches.

Ultimately I think who-beats-who does need to be taken into consideration, particularly with fighters in similar weight classes, but it is often a lot like guesswork, particularly when you're looking at fighters who are unproven at the highest level. GGG is my favourite active fighter, but he's not in my P4P Top 10 because he doesn't have wins over A level competition. Yes, he has looked devastating in dispatching B level opponents, but I can't rank him over the likes of Tim Bradley and Carl Froch who have consistently fought and generally succeeded against a higher level of competition than GGG has even stepped into the ring with. I would slightly favour GGG to beat Froch in a fight, but with very little confidence because as a pro, GGG hasn't fought anyone of Froch's calibre.

If we ranked fighters based on how devastatingly they beat their opponents, regardless of their opponents' ability, then you'd have people ranking Deontay Wilder as the world's #1 heavyweight! Now THAT would be stupidity!

even if we go by record, why is hopkins in a top 10 when he got a loss, a nc and a draw in his last 7 fights, where other who beat there opponents much more impressiv and more importantly didnt have losses are not in the p4p top 10 list.

all that "i just go by record doesnt make no sense." if a boxer is better than the one infront of him, than thats it. cloud had a much better record than beterbiev, donaire had a much much better record than rigondeaux. records dont get wins, skill and athletic ability do.

is has to be a mix of record and overall ability of who would win against the other. and not just only going by record. because if we go straight by record, than hopkins is right now the #1 boxer alive, his overal record from past to now is the best. but that makes 0 sense, because who cares what happened 7 years ago. p4p has always been about "who is the king of oxing right now, who effs up the rest" has always been that way, when tyson 86-87 people were saying he is unbeatable, when prime roy jones jr was around, nobody can beat that guy, when prime trinidad at 154 was wrecking people, he is the best. when prime pacquiao had the rare combination of world class power and world class speed and was eating one division after the other.

and thats why you dont know much about boxing. because isnt ridicoulus. pacquiao started boxing at 16 at around minimumweight and ended at 154, thats around 10 division he climbed. so why could he survive from ultra thin manny, to big manny at 154? because he had rare power and rare speed, an special talent, a p4p legend!!! thats why. same reason why roy jones started around 154 and was climbing up to heavyweight, because he got a rare talent. and if you have a fanatasy you can imagine someone gettin bigger or getting smaller and defeatng opponents because of there style, power, speed etc......

[Ricky_]

Gennady Golovkin is the best p4p on the planet by a considerable distance.

[jezzamundo]

even if we go by record, why is hopkins in a top 10 when he got a loss, a nc and a draw in his last 7 fights, where other who beat there opponents much more impressiv and more importantly didnt have losses are not in the p4p top 10 list.

all that "i just go by record doesnt make no sense." if a boxer is better than the one infront of him, than thats it. cloud had a much better record than beterbiev, donaire had a much much better record than rigondeaux. records dont get wins, skill and athletic ability do.

is has to be a mix of record and overall ability of who would win against the other. and not just only going by record. because if we go straight by record, than hopkins is right now the #1 boxer alive, his overal record from past to now is the best. but that makes 0 sense, because who cares what happened 7 years ago. p4p has always been about "who is the king of oxing right now, who effs up the rest" has always been that way, when tyson 86-87 people were saying he is unbeatable, when prime roy jones jr was around, nobody can beat that guy, when prime trinidad at 154 was wrecking people, he is the best. when prime pacquiao had the rare combination of world class power and world class speed and was eating one division after the other.

and thats why you dont know much about boxing. because isnt ridicoulus. pacquiao started boxing at 16 at around minimumweight and ended at 154, thats around 10 division he climbed. so why could he survive from ultra thin manny, to big manny at 154? because he had rare power and rare speed, an special talent, a p4p legend!!! thats why. same reason why roy jones started around 154 and was climbing up to heavyweight, because he got a rare talent. and if you have a fanatasy you can imagine someone gettin bigger or getting smaller and defeatng opponents because of there style, power, speed etc......

You're starting to make a bit more sense, but ultimately you can't accurately predict how a boxer would perform against another unless they've already fought someone of a similar style and caliber. You can make a good educated guess, but it's a lot more fair to rank fighters based on what they have achieved, rather than what they might, or could achieve. Wilder might knock out Wlad, but he shouldn't be ranked in the Top 10 at heavyweight because the quality of his opposition has been so dire.

You're also making the false assumption that when I and others talk about records, that we are considering a fighters entire career as a whole. That would be the case if we were looking at all-time rankings, but when making ratings for the present, when we talk about record we are talking about their most recent fights, with past performances becoming less relevant the longer they were ago. It's similar to how the official BoxRec ratings are done, just without the numbers.

I agree that based on his recent performances and current level of ability, BHop shouldn't be in the P4P Top 10. I strongly disagree that Golovkin and Lara should be in the Top 5 (I don't have either in the Top 10) because they simply haven't earned it.

[Chepppaaa]

exactly, noe one can 100 % predict anything in live, thats true. but you also cant accuratly predict that boxer a is better than boxer b just because of the record and that is what you are doing when you put somebody like marquez over golovkin, when in reality if the faced at a same weight with marquez a bit bigger and golovkin a bit smaller, than marquez would win . he woudl get brutalized, simple as that- and if you dont know that, than there is 1 of many reasons why you not a boxing expert.

but do you what the difference is between a boxing expert like myself and someone who know litle or nothing to boxing?

the difference is, that i see the fight already planning out in my fantasy, when i match them up and my prediction are very close and good. do i make mistakes, sure i do, but most of the times my predictions are close to what happens. so if I beliebe boxer a is better and would better boxer b in a fight, why than should i rate boxer b than boxer a. doesnt make sense. and only going by record, does not make sense. because record is more likly to lie, than ability. you can become champion havgin beating tomato cans, or average guys. but you cant fake julian jackson kind of power, you cant fake pernell kind of defensive master chip, you cant fake meldrick taylor kidn of speed. get what i am sayn.

wlad doesnt play a role in the boxing world. dude is a wrestler. he wrestles more, than he boxes. he should get DQ in 80 % of his fights. the refs are bought. wlad is a criminal. and when wlad would box (not wrestle) against wilder, he would get kod, plain and simlpe. and even if they not fought, i dont rate wlad, he is no boxer.

okay, when you judge rescent fights, than hopkins is out of the p4p rank. adonis beat dawson, cloud very mpressiv and beat tall strong fonfara. much more impressiv, than losing against dawson and point wins against cloud and shumanov.

than also by reascent record floyd is out of #1 spot, why. I just go by rescent record, like you like!!


floyd mayweather

maidana II: floyd won, yes, i do believe it. but the circumstances were awful. floyd always talks 50/50, when in reality everything is 100 % for floyd, gloves ring size, the ref, everything. i mean bayless didnt let maidana do nothing inside boxing. and inside boxing is a part of boxing, bayless got either paid out or talked to, but it cant be, than a slugger is not allowed to slug. floyd didnt impress me, he is down the line. end of the story.

maidana: some say ud win for floyd, some say ud win for maidana, some say draw, like myself, just a close fight

canelo: MD win over alvarez (when in the lara fight we saw how overrated canelo is in terms when he is fighting master techmnician, i mean lara was making canelo miss clearer than floyd did, lara was just super stupid, to just stopping letting his hands go and pretty much abondon the fight, because he thought he won every single round and didnt needed to to keep on boxing)

guillermo rigondeaux

kokietgym: kos a guy with an 63 wins 3 losses record in under 110 secondes

agbeko: beats every single round, i repeat EVERY SINGLE ROUND solid ex hampion agbeko like agbeko was an journeyman

donaire: wins 10 out of 12 rounds and totaly schools a man considered at that time a p4p top 4 boxer


its not even debatable. what rigo did in reascent time is much more impressiv than what floyd did in reascent time. also rigo needs no help, no weight cuts canelo 2 pounds, no gloves discussions, no ring size discussion, no paid off ref, a ref that says break everytime the opponent comes close. rigo goes into the ring and beat guys because he better. and since the donaire fight, everybody, mares, everybody wants no part of him, because boxing rigo means sure loss. rigo technicly and athleticly too brilliant.

[jezzamundo]

exactly, noe one can 100 % predict anything in live, thats true. but you also cant accuratly predict that boxer a is better than boxer b just because of the record and that is what you are doing when you put somebody like marquez over golovkin, when in reality if the faced at a same weight with marquez a bit bigger and golovkin a bit smaller, than marquez would win . he woudl get brutalized, simple as that- and if you dont know that, than there is 1 of many reasons why you not a boxing expert.

but do you what the difference is between a boxing expert like myself and someone who know litle or nothing to boxing?

the difference is, that i see the fight already planning out in my fantasy, when i match them up and my prediction are very close and good. do i make mistakes, sure i do, but most of the times my predictions are close to what happens. so if I beliebe boxer a is better and would better boxer b in a fight, why than should i rate boxer b than boxer a. doesnt make sense. and only going by record, does not make sense. because record is more likly to lie, than ability. you can become champion havgin beating tomato cans, or average guys. but you cant fake julian jackson kind of power, you cant fake pernell kind of defensive master chip, you cant fake meldrick taylor kidn of speed. get what i am sayn.

wlad doesnt play a role in the boxing world. dude is a wrestler. he wrestles more, than he boxes. he should get DQ in 80 % of his fights. the refs are bought. wlad is a criminal. and when wlad would box (not wrestle) against wilder, he would get kod, plain and simlpe. and even if they not fought, i dont rate wlad, he is no boxer.

okay, when you judge rescent fights, than hopkins is out of the p4p rank. adonis beat dawson, cloud very mpressiv and beat tall strong fonfara. much more impressiv, than losing against dawson and point wins against cloud and shumanov.

than also by reascent record floyd is out of #1 spot, why. I just go by rescent record, like you like!!


floyd mayweather

maidana II: floyd won, yes, i do believe it. but the circumstances were awful. floyd always talks 50/50, when in reality everything is 100 % for floyd, gloves ring size, the ref, everything. i mean bayless didnt let maidana do nothing inside boxing. and inside boxing is a part of boxing, bayless got either paid out or talked to, but it cant be, than a slugger is not allowed to slug. floyd didnt impress me, he is down the line. end of the story.

maidana: some say ud win for floyd, some say ud win for maidana, some say draw, like myself, just a close fight

canelo: MD win over alvarez (when in the lara fight we saw how overrated canelo is in terms when he is fighting master techmnician, i mean lara was making canelo miss clearer than floyd did, lara was just super stupid, to just stopping letting his hands go and pretty much abondon the fight, because he thought he won every single round and didnt needed to to keep on boxing)

guillermo rigondeaux

kokietgym: kos a guy with an 63 wins 3 losses record in under 110 secondes

agbeko: beats every single round, i repeat EVERY SINGLE ROUND solid ex hampion agbeko like agbeko was an journeyman

donaire: wins 10 out of 12 rounds and totaly schools a man considered at that time a p4p top 4 boxer


its not even debatable. what rigo did in reascent time is much more impressiv than what floyd did in reascent time. also rigo needs no help, no weight cuts canelo 2 pounds, no gloves discussions, no ring size discussion, no paid off ref, a ref that says break everytime the opponent comes close. rigo goes into the ring and beat guys because he better. and since the donaire fight, everybody, mares, everybody wants no part of him, because boxing rigo means sure loss. rigo technicly and athleticly too brilliant.

One of the differences between us is that I don't claim to be a boxing expert. I've gone to a boxing gym for over a decade, sparred with professional and amateur boxers and been a fan of the sport for about 12 years, so I know more about boxing than most, but I'm not an expert.

Ultimately a lot of what you're talking about is little more than your opinion, which you are asking others to accept as true, because you are, apparently, a boxing expert. There are few people on this forum I would consider experts, but you certainly aren't one of them. I appreciate that you've gone into depth to explain your opinions, but you need to know that they are just that, opinions, and just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they are wrong or that their opinion is any less valid than yours.

You are perfectly entitled to say that Wilder is the #1 heavyweight, just don't expect anyone to agree with you until Wilder actually proves it in the ring.

I generally don't get into these type of arguments, but surely you have to understand how irritating it is to have someone say something that most would consider downright wacky, then tell anyone who disagrees with them that they don't know what they're talking about.

[Impractical Poster]

There's the Ring p4p lists, boxrec, and many others. But, Horse's is the truth!! Rarely will you find two P4P lists the same. So that being said, Horse's are consistently well put together lists.

[jezzamundo]

There's the Ring p4p lists, boxrec, and many others. But, Horse's is the truth!! Rarely will you find two P4P lists the same. So that being said, Horse's are consistently well put together lists.

I always enjoy them and tend to find only minor quibbles to pick.

[Horse]

Re: Narvaez. At 39, I thought his recent win over his young, tough mandatory Orucuta, was impressive. I expected him to lose and was impressed he could still beat a much bigger, younger and harder hitting opponent. I might sneak him in at 30ish, although can't see him fighting much longer

He's been a world champion for over 12 years and he's never unified? Why is that?

It's impressive that he can still beat top 10 ranked opponents at 38, but he really should have done far more with his career. I don't understand his lack of ambition.

[Horse]

canelo, bradley, marquez, hopkins, ward are out of p4p. guys like lara, golovkin, kovalev, gonzales are in!!!

Alvarez has just beaten Lara and Mayweather did a lot better against Alvarez than Lara.

ward stopped and it is unsure when and if he comes back.

canelo had 0 chance vs lara. lara beat himself, because he simply stopped punching at all. while lara is dumb, no doubt, he still is an elite boxer, anybody who doesnt see his skill or athletic ability doesnt kow boxing.

kell brook would totaly technicly dominate bradley/ thurman would totaly brutalize bradley

marquez is past it, he should be nowhere a p4p list. he lost totaly to an overrated bradley and the only thing he did good, was having a lucky punch in a fight he was loosing, now he is old

X gonne get wrecked by kovalev, he has already been easily beating by a guy adonis needed around 5 minutes for

Lara is not very good. He is a hypejob.

Bradley is much better than Lara.