BoxRec

Othro wrote: Yes I consider Cotto a top middleweight he is THE middleweight champion any other belt holder is just a titlist.

Bobbyptsd wrote:

crusader wrote:Okay, so who are those top middleweights apart from Cotto and are they much better than someone like Murray? If you're going just by major belts and exclude sub-variants (like the interim WBC belt Rubio held) the other champions are GGG himself and Jermain Taylor, and I don't think that the latter is currently better than Murray. I also think assessing a fighter's P4P standing based on belts won is fairly nonsensical, as one's ability is not determined by the belt they won; a fairy good fighter can never win a major title holder while a fairly mediocre one can.

And I'm not sure what the problem is with using the BoxRec rankings as a guide. Are there people you consider top middleweights outside those ten?

A)No, just ask Martinez and Sturm.

B)See A

crow wrote:These are 3 good undefeated oponnents for GGG at middle: Quillin, Korobov and Murray ( Murray arguably beat both Sturm and Martinez, or deserved at least a draw).

So it's an excellent fight.
But i give Murray a 15-20% chance, because he's big, durable and can punch.
He's not going to lay down like Rubio or Geale.

If GGG wins this impressively, the nay sayers will have to tone down quite a bit.

crow wrote:These are 3 good undefeated oponnents for GGG at middle: Quillin, Korobov and Murray ( Murray arguably beat both Sturm and Martinez, or deserved at least a draw).

So it's an excellent fight.
But i give Murray a 15-20% chance, because he's big, durable and can punch.
He's not going to lay down like Rubio or Geale.

If GGG wins this impressively, the nay sayers will have to tone down quite a bit.

ikorolev wrote:

Bobbyptsd wrote:

crusader wrote:Okay, so who are those top middleweights apart from Cotto and are they much better than someone like Murray? If you're going just by major belts and exclude sub-variants (like the interim WBC belt Rubio held) the other champions are GGG himself and Jermain Taylor, and I don't think that the latter is currently better than Murray. I also think assessing a fighter's P4P standing based on belts won is fairly nonsensical, as one's ability is not determined by the belt they won; a fairy good fighter can never win a major title holder while a fairly mediocre one can.

And I'm not sure what the problem is with using the BoxRec rankings as a guide. Are there people you consider top middleweights outside those ten?

A)No, just ask Martinez and Sturm.

B)See A

"No" to what ?

Butterbean wrote:

crow wrote:These are 3 good undefeated oponnents for GGG at middle: Quillin, Korobov and Murray ( Murray arguably beat both Sturm and Martinez, or deserved at least a draw).

So it's an excellent fight.
But i give Murray a 15-20% chance, because he's big, durable and can punch.
He's not going to lay down like Rubio or Geale.

If GGG wins this impressively, the nay sayers will have to tone down quite a bit.

Oh yes he is... And within 3.

crusader wrote:Quillin is a good and perhaps underrated fighter and his chances of beating Murray would be relatively high in my view. Apart from him, Cotto, and GGG I don't think anyone in the division is currently better than Murray though, and obviously Quillin isn't a titlist anymore so GGG wouldn't need to beat him at this point to collect all the titles, which Othro seems to suggest is a precondition for GGG having a P4P top ten ranking.

ikorolev wrote:

Othro wrote: Yes I consider Cotto a top middleweight he is THE middleweight champion any other belt holder is just a titlist.

LOL at THE champion who will likely never fight any healthy in prime middleweight.

Othro wrote:

ikorolev wrote:

Othro wrote: Yes I consider Cotto a top middleweight he is THE middleweight champion any other belt holder is just a titlist.

LOL at THE champion who will likely never fight any healthy in prime middleweight.

LOL at Golovkins cock being so far down your throat that you forgot Cotto is the number 1 middleweight.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:Any word if HBO gonna pick this one up?

KBB wrote:I honestly believe Murray has as good a chance as Ward does of beating Gennady because for one, he will not be afraid to come right at him and let's not forget how he had Sergio on queer street and running from him the entire fight.

As long as Murray can avoid having to fight going backwards then he should make this a highly competitive fight with the outcome being uncertain.

ikorolev wrote:

KBB wrote:I honestly believe Murray has as good a chance as Ward does of beating Gennady because for one, he will not be afraid to come right at him and let's not forget how he had Sergio on queer street and running from him the entire fight.

As long as Murray can avoid having to fight going backwards then he should make this a highly competitive fight with the outcome being uncertain.

I guess you were the idiot who selected 70-90%, and only an idiot could connect Murray and Ward with "and". Have you seen Murray's Khomitsky fights where the strong journeyman dominated and was robbed by U.K. judges ? Even Spada was able to intimidate him at moments.

Othro wrote:

crusader wrote:I'd like to know too.

BoxRec top 10 prior to Murray being assigned points for his fight today:

1. GGG
2. Cotto
3. Quillin
4. Sergio
5. Taylor
6. Sturm
7. Murray
8. Soliman
9. Korobov
10. Geale

I assume he considers Cotto a top middleweight. Sergio was a top MW, but he looked shot to poo his last fight and barely got past the guy Othro is complaining about GGG fighting. Quillin is currently among the top in the division but I don't think he's clearly better than Murray is, or Macklin and Geale were. Chavez, who had a GGG fight on the table but decided not to take it, fought most recently at 168 and him fighting at 160 again seems very questionable.

I understand that GGG is extremely overrated by some, but I don't think that extreme views should be the main comparison point for general assessments of a fighter. I think saying things such as 'GGG is the P4P king' is over the top, but at the same time I think the 'who has he fought' line is getting increasingly weak given that his recent MW opposition is quite arguably the best in division. I think that argument is even weaker when you're just discussing him fighting at MW and not moving up to fight people like Ward or Froch.

Those are boxrec's computerized rankings that mean nothing. Murray is on the same level as the fighters Golovkin has already been beating. If this guy is top 10 p4p he has to beat the best or collect all of the belts and atleast be undisputed champ.

Yes I consider Cotto a top middleweight he is THE middleweight champion any other belt holder is just a titlist.