BoxRec

A couple things...

Firpo was NOT a better fighter than WIllard. Willard has beaten more men than JUST Johnson. And any win over Johnson, even if it took 26 rounds, is an amazing victory.

Berbick is NOT Tyson's best opponent from the 80's. Holmes, Spinks, Ruddock are all a step up. Guys like Bruno, THomas, Tucker are all arguable, and pretty close in quality.

6 Pack: Firpo was NOT a better fighter than WIllard. Willard has beaten more men than JUST Johnson. And any win over Johnson, even if it took 26 rounds, is an amazing victory.

Hi, 6 Pack. Willard's defeat of Johnson is NOT an "amazing victory," any more than Johnson beating Jeffries or Marciano beating Louis or Holmes beating Ali were amazing victories.

Had the fight gone 15 rounds, Johnson wins handily, even though he was a shell of the fighting machine that took the title.

Firpo does not have much or a resume, that I grant you. He caught Brennan and Willard when they were at the retirement doorstep. He got stopped by Godoy. But Willard was beaten by a journeyman lightheavy in Bearcat McMahon (Firpo would have murdered McMahon) and he was demolished by Dempsey. Firpo faired much better against Dempsey, for as long as it lasted. At least he got some licks in.

Question is, had Firpo and Willard both been in their prime, who wins? There isn't enough in the fighting results of these to draw definitive inferences. It just isn't there. My gut tells me Firpo beats Willard, but that victory is nothing to write home about. Both men are inept enough to lose to any reasonably competent heavyweight, and they are both big enough and punch hard enough to knock out most heavyweights given a solid connect.

Berbick is NOT Tyson's best opponent from the 80's.
Holmes, Spinks, Ruddock are all a step up.

Biggs and Tucker and Spinks were all unbeaten when they squared off with Tyson, so it is hard to argue for Berbick. Tyson fought Ruddock in the 90's, not the 80's, and technically, his 1990 bout with Douglas happened in the decade of the 1980's, because they started with the year 1 instead of 0 2004 years ago, but that is getting pretty darn technical.

ali v foreman
douglas v tyson
frazier vs ali #1

Sweet Scientist wrote:

Ali was favourite, by Joe had other ideas.

Just for the record...Ali was NOT the favorite...the odds with the bookies were even, and it was 50 - 50 with the general public...I was a big Ali fan, went to the closed circuit telecast at an arena with thousands of people, and I vividly recall as much cheering for Frazier as there was for Ali...the political climate surrounding the fight amplified this...there were people there rooting for Frazier just because they hated Ali, many weren't even boxing fans!!!

Actually, when the fight was announced, the odds were even. As the fight approached, Frazier became the favorite and on the eve of the fight it was 9-5 Frazier, edging towards 2-1.

One other thing. Unless I'm terribly mistaken, Ali's jaw was not broken in the fight. It was very swollen and he did indeed go to the hospital after the fight.

Buster Douglas KO 10 Mike Tyson: A Tremendous upset, and an all time great performance from a fighter who was nothing more than just another contender at best on every other night of his career.

Jack Dempsey KO 4 Jess Willard: The most vicious beating I've ever seen in a Championship fight.

Joe Frazier W15 Muhammad Ali: 2 of the best Heavyweights ever to have laced up a pair of gloves, both in their primes. Both undefeated, Joe Frazier just overwhelmed Ali that night and won a hard fought decision in one of the All time classic Heavyweight Championship fights.

1 Frazier (Ali I)
2 Louis (Schmeling II)
3 Douglas (Tyson)

The Revival wrote:Buster Douglas KO 10 Mike Tyson: A Tremendous upset, and an all time great performance from a fighter who was nothing more than just another contender at best on every other night of his career.

Jack Dempsey KO 4 Jess Willard: The most vicious beating I've ever seen in a Championship fight.

Joe Frazier W15 Muhammad Ali: 2 of the best Heavyweights ever to have laced up a pair of gloves, both in their primes. Both undefeated, Joe Frazier just overwhelmed Ali that night and won a hard fought decision in one of the All time classic Heavyweight Championship fights.

Frazier vs Ali I....To me, the greatest performance of any boxer. I don't see NO HEAVYWEIGHT IN HISTORY beating that Smokin Joe of March 8, 1971

Louis vs Scmeling II...The Brown Bomber was in all cylinders with hooks and upper cuts. A thing of beauty. Germany surrenders!

Johnson vs Jeffries....A total complete dominating performance by The Galveston Giant. He embarrassed The White Hope.

Jeffries had not fought in six years, lasts until the 15th round, and that is one pick as one of your top three performances of all time? Really? Wow.

louis schmeling 2
ali foreman
holyfield tyson

Ambling Alp II wrote:Jeffries had not fought in six years, lasts until the 15th round, and that is one pick as one of your top three performances of all time? Really? Wow.

The American public demanded the fight. It was made in the 4th of July. It was ONE OF THE MOST ANTICIPATED FIGHTS EVER. It was a great performance by the great Jack Johnson

Ali vs Foreman

Marciano vs Walcott

Conn vs Louis (even though he lost, it was a legendary nights work)

Joe Frazier -v- Muhammad Ali (1971) - Smokin' Joe was never going to lose that night, whatever Ali threw at him. He never stopped coming & gave Ali no room nor rest.

Evander Holyfield -v- Mike Tyson (1996) - How do you beat a bully; by bullying him! Everyone thought Holyfield was going out of the arena in a box, but he was inspired & Tyson had no answers.

Muhammad Ali -v- George Foreman - OK, Foreman fought like a clueless dummy, but Muhammad spent 4 months prior to the fight telling the world that was how Foreman always fought, but it was a sight to behold watching Ali literally strip Foreman's invincibility cloak away from him. He took Foreman's soul & it took George two decades to get back on top.

elmersalsa wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:Jeffries had not fought in six years, lasts until the 15th round, and that is one pick as one of your top three performances of all time? Really? Wow.

The American public demanded the fight. It was made in the 4th of July. It was ONE OF THE MOST ANTICIPATED FIGHTS EVER. It was a great performance by the great Jack Johnson

Read the title of the thread. It is Name your top 3 greatest performances by a heavyweight.
Doesn't say anything about most anticipated.
Greater than of Ali's?
I'm going out on a limb and say that beat George Foreman, Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier was a better performance. Doubt the Jeffries win was even Johnson's best performance.

Crease wrote:Ali vs Foreman

Marciano vs Walcott

Conn vs Louis (even though he lost, it was a legendary nights work)

The Conn one is interesting. Even though he lost, for a guy that size to come that close to beating Joe Louis is pretty impressive.

Ambling Alp II wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:Jeffries had not fought in six years, lasts until the 15th round, and that is one pick as one of your top three performances of all time? Really? Wow.

The American public demanded the fight. It was made in the 4th of July. It was ONE OF THE MOST ANTICIPATED FIGHTS EVER. It was a great performance by the great Jack Johnson

Read the title of the thread. It is Name your top 3 greatest performances by a heavyweight.
Doesn't say anything about most anticipated.
Greater than of Ali's?
I'm going out on a limb and say that beat George Foreman, Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier was a better performance. Doubt the Jeffries win was even Johnson's best performance.

The Johnson vs Jeffries fight was not like Ali vs Holmes, or Marciano vs Louis, or Charles vs Louis or Tyson vs Holmes type of fight. It was one OF THE MOST ANTICIPATED FIGHTS OF ALL TIME. THE FIRST most anticipated fight of the 20th century.

The public demanded it. The media AT THE TIME, demanded it. They BELIEVED that Jim was gonna win. And The Galveston Giant gave him a GOOD THRASHING. That's all to it. A great performance by one of the greatest heavyweights ever: Jack Johnson

Whatever.

Ambling Alp II wrote:The Conn one is interesting. Even though he lost, for a guy that size to come that close to beating Joe Louis is pretty impressive.

Agreed. It is said that one great performance doesn't automatically make a guy a great fighter... But sure as hell raised Billy Conn's stock and it's a fight that will always be remembered for all time. I'll certainly be annoying the grand kids with tales of it.

Douglas v Tyson
Ali v Frazier III
Tyson v Spinks

1. Ali v Foreman
2. Frazier v Ali 1
3. Foreman v Frazier 1

Hard to nail down because there have been so many great fighters who been in great fights, its almost a disrespectful slap in the face to their careers by leaving people out of such lists... But for me, as a fan of this sport since I was a child, and having read thousands of articles and seen countless films... my list is the following:

#1- Joe Louis vs Max Schmeling II

For me, it was quite possibly the most devestating beat down in heavyweight history. It is a perfect example, near flawless, to show a non-boxing fan what a finely tuned, great athlete and fighter can do to another man. It's all the more impressive, because the flaws in Louis' game was well known at that point. There was a good deal of people the world over, who thought that he would lose this fight. Why? He looked lackluster against Tommy Farr, he got decked by Jim Braddock, and he had lost so easily to Schmeling the first time. The wins over Sharkey and some others didnt erase the image that Louis was a robot in people's eyes. Some people will say that this wasn't a boxing match, it was an all out cheating affair with Louis throwing deadly liver shots and punches behind the head--- but the fact that Schmeling had figured Louis out, made him look foolish, only to be dismantled in the space of 90 seconds goes to show that Louis was absoloutely a killer in rematches.

#2- Jack Dempsey vs Jess Willard

After all the years of barnstorming, pan handling, and riding train cars. After all the years of going hungry and living in poverty and considered something of a mediocrity. This was Jack Dempsey's time. Few people had really heard of him, and those that did either remembered him as the part time rancher, coal miner, ditch digger who eeked out a living or they remembered him as a small, green horn living on park benches in Central Park for about a year. Of course, that was before he flattened Fred Fulton in 15 seconds, and Carl Morris as well. In a short span of time, he made people believe in him enough to make it a rich money fight. But almost no one believed he could win. Not even his own father. Who cares that the champion hadn't fought in three years. He was a mountain! Who cares that nobody really cared for the champion's snobbish attitude either. This was the White Hope who kayoed Jack Johnson! Who the hell was this Dempsey kid, all 187 pounds of him, to think he could challenge him? Three short rounds later.... A new champion.... and poor, poor Jess Willard had a broken nose, shattered cheek bones, broken ribs, teeth knocked out, eyes swollen shut and a shattered jaw. A legend had been born: Jack The Giant Killer, Slayer of Ogres.

#3- Muhammad Ali vs George Foreman

He didn't have it left. Everybody knew it. The people all wanted him to win, but down deep everybody was afraid he would get killed. None of the press core so much as gave him odds. This was as good as licensed murder. After all, the man he was about to face destroyed two men in under four rounds total. The same two men went almost sixty rounds combined with Ali. Frazier fell in two. So did Norton. Undefeated, enormous, aggressive and powerful. Who could possibly last, let along stop George Foreman? WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING?! LAYING ON THE ROPES?! OH NO, I CANT LOOK, I CANT WATCH!! People literally were bawling their eyes out. This was going to be worse than Madison Square Garden in 1970. But wait... one round.... two... three.... four..... five.... Is Foreman getting tired?.... Six.... Seven.... HOLY SHIT!!!! Muhammad Ali became the heavyweight champion of the world again.