BoxRec

Surely they would be able to detect HGH, if the know what it is. Like with THG as soon as they found out what it was they could test for it. Isnt Human Growth Hormone just testosterone, as testosterone helps muscle growth. I certainly wouldnt inject testosterone as Iv heard it mucks up your reproductive system (if ur a bloke) and at this age that aint something I want malfunctioning.

jameswilson wrote:Surely they would be able to detect HGH, if the know what it is. Like with THG as soon as they found out what it was they could test for it. Isnt Human Growth Hormone just testosterone, as testosterone helps muscle growth. I certainly wouldnt inject testosterone as Iv heard it mucks up your reproductive system (if ur a bloke) and at this age that aint something I want malfunctioning.

They were hoping to have got an effective test sorted in time for Athens, but as far as I know they've not cracked it. Because GH is produced naturally it is difficult to have a conclusive test. You'd have thought elevated levels of the stuff would be prove enough, but I don't know if it's a simple as that to assess.

It's not just testosterone at all, it is a completely different endogenous hormone produced by the pituitary gland.

In the Eastern Bloc scientists used to take it directly from the pituitary gland of recently dead people, but they found that it somehow caused a few of those who used it to develop Kreutsfeld Jacob(sp) disease, so they went to lab created stuff (I think).

James,

I go to UWIC, 1st year PHD. I did a Msc there last year, I did my undergrad at Glamorgan (Pontypridd).

My mate, from Aberearon (well Llanarth, near Welsh international Dafydd Jones) has also been in Glamorgan, he's just finished now - but he's 22 now - took a year out.

I would have NEVER thought that your Welsh, and I assume your Welsh speaking aswell. I'm from a little lower down the country, Pembrokeshire.

stujones wrote:James,

I go to UWIC, 1st year PHD. I did a Msc there last year, I did my undergrad at Glamorgan (Pontypridd).

My mate, from Aberearon (well Llanarth, near Welsh international Dafydd Jones) has also been in Glamorgan, he's just finished now - but he's 22 now - took a year out.

I would have NEVER thought that your Welsh, and I assume your Welsh speaking aswell. I'm from a little lower down the country, Pembrokeshire.

Im Welsh speaking but I aint Welsh, I was born in Portsmouth and consider myself an Englishman. If ur mate from Llanarth knows me he will prob tell ya what an English c*nt I am, due to the fact of how openly English I am, whenever England are playin in the Rugby/football/whatever Ill be out with my England shirt on getting abuse hurled at me for being Englsih, I aint too bothered Im sure u know the drill. Never had anyone get really agressive with me luckily tho.

jameswilson wrote:Surely they would be able to detect HGH, if the know what it is. Like with THG as soon as they found out what it was they could test for it. Isnt Human Growth Hormone just testosterone, as testosterone helps muscle growth. I certainly wouldnt inject testosterone as Iv heard it mucks up your reproductive system (if ur a bloke) and at this age that aint something I want malfunctioning.

No, there's a big difference - THG is an artificial anabolic, i.e. a substance not produced naturally by the body - the reason they couldn't initially detect it (and still can't without the proper latest-greatest tests) was that it was specifically designed to be nonreactive to the known assays.

HGH on the other hand occurs naturally in the body, and even the lab-produced variety (made via recombinant DNA techniques, where you splice a desired gene segment into some bacterium that then pumps out the protein product of the gene in quantity) is based on human DNA. The only ways to prove someone is juicing on HGH are (a) if an anomalously high level is detected - but this is tricky, because natural variations are large, so if 100 athletes all test in the 99th percentile you might know that probably 90 of them are doping, but not which 90, or (b) if you can show that a person has 2 types of HGH in their system, one of differs ever so slightly in its amino acid sequence from their endogenous HGH - but this requires ultrasophisticated testing equipment, and is thus *really* expensive to do, hence infeasible for mass testing as in the Olympics.

Oh, another easy way to dodge test (a) is if you know roughly when you'll be tested, you just cycle off the stuff a few days in advance, allowing your levels time to drop back within the "normal" range.

Using human-identical testosterone is similarly hard to detect - most athletes engaged in doping will use a variety of compounds, and will tailor their dosage and mix & match compounds based on what is optimal for their training regimen and competition/drug-testing schedule.

I almost wish I knew less about this stuff, but here in the SF bay area the BALCO labs THG scandal has been providing quite an eye-opening education on the issue.

Of course, Blood Dopping is all the rage now, a very effective method and almost impossible to detect. Highly dangerous though.

jameswilson wrote:

Coconut wrote:I heard he was around 8 per cent body fat. That's freaky low.

Pudzianowski coming to boxing would make boxing into a circus, if it isn't already. Leave him to K1. Or WSM, because he could be a great there if his heart doesn't give way by the time he's 30.

That size at 26 ish, they're taking the p1ss if they think anyone's taking them seriously as a clean sport. Fair play to him, though, he's done his time in the gym and eaten his chickens. He's probably also shrunk his pecker, made himself go bald and shortened his life by 40 years. If only I died 40 years early, I'd have an excuse.

8% isnt freakily low I had a test for that in my end of season fitness tests and Im 7% at 14stone2. Iv been drug tested as well so I dont think u need to use them to get ur body fat that low. A lot of people look at these men who compete in strongman and immediately say 'ah steroids' but I think they actually get regualarly drug tested. There are tell tail signs as well that you can actually see like a stomach that is muscular (6pac) but actually sticks out further than the chest when tensed up (roid belly.) Also what appears to be breast tissue that develops over the chest muscle itself (b1ch tits) is another symptom of some steroids. We are all told to watch out for this among each other to try and cut down on drug use. I aint seen any evidence of this among the WSM comprtitors so there must be some kind of undetectable steroid if these guys are using them.

There are other tell-tale signs, such as bloodshot eyes, chin growth, getting bald. He has tham all. On the body fat issue, as a rugby player you're doing plenty of cardio work and HIIT at that which is what you need. Pudzianowski is hoiking weights around and although he is described as fit and evidently has some CV capability, he basically trains purely for short bursts of strength and eats a shed load. They all do. Not to store any of that excess fuel as fat to me implies that he's getting a boost for the last few yards, anyway. Not saying the guy hasn't done the hard yards in the gym and isn't naturally enormously strong, but there's chemical enhancement there. 5 foot short, over 20 stone and very low bf%? It doesn't say anything else other than enhancement.

I used to box but just play rugby now, at prop, and propped against a guy last year who had featured in the top 5 of a Uk strongman competition. First scrum, I couldn't do anything with him, and only didn't get my neck broken because I knew what I was doing. After 5 minutes of the game, he was stuffed and I could do what I wanted, and I'm weighing in around 14 stone.

beduff wrote:

Coconut wrote:I heard he was around 8 per cent body fat. That's freaky low.

Pudzianowski coming to boxing would make boxing into a circus, if it isn't already. Leave him to K1. Or WSM, because he could be a great there if his heart doesn't give way by the time he's 30.

That size at 26 ish, they're taking the p1ss if they think anyone's taking them seriously as a clean sport. Fair play to him, though, he's done his time in the gym and eaten his chickens. He's probably also shrunk his pecker, made himself go bald and shortened his life by 40 years. If only I died 40 years early, I'd have an excuse.

a amateur champion who happens to be really strong with a desire to be the best would make boxing a circus?sorry im sitting here scratching my head,explain why a over average amateur would make boxing a circus?

I stand by the circus comment. If he came into boxing it would be in exactly the same manner that Bob Sapp, Akebono or whatever went to K1. There's absolutely no evidence that he can cut it at all at a serious level, he'd be stuck in with Butterbean and would wing away for a couple of rounds, but be hyped out of all proportion. The sport has to have personalities but Pudzianowski would be the attraction, not the sport, and that's when it becomes a circus. It would be no different to a decent amatuer like that Eastenders bloke going into a charity match. Hype for the person, belittling the sport.

I understand he was a decent amateur, but that was a long time and the best part of 40 kilos ago.

damn you guys impress me with your knowledge!!!!!!

I always use the basic rule of thumb that if you are over 17 1/2 stone and ripped you are on juice or growth or both....

all you have do is look at the Mr Olympia competition to see how competitors physiques have changed after the introduction of steriods and now with the introduction of GH....

Taken from Big Ron Coleman's official site...Nutrition Tips:-

'Over the years I have received numerous questions about how to add mass to one's frame. To put on mass can be a painstaking task for some. I have found that the following things can help a great deal with adding mass to the frame.

a. Eat, eat and eat some more

b. To add strength and mass, try to consume four to six meals a day. Choose from a variety of food groups at mealtime. Try to include lots of potatoes, rice, pasta, fruits and vegetables

c. Make sure you are eating enough. A low fat diet and avoiding refined foods are good, but it won't help you build mass. On the same note you don't want to eat a high fat diet all the time. Fat provides additional calories, the fat-souluble vitamins A, D, E and K and raw materials for important hormones that stimulate muscle growth.

d. Monitor the amount of mass you are gaining. Measure your body parts and weigh every week to see if you are going in the right direction.

e. Lastly, continue to train hard. And remember gaining mass won't happen overnight. '

knockout wrote:

Shit, I new steriods weren't good for you, but that bloke's got no feet!

knockout wrote:I always use the basic rule of thumb that if you are over 17 1/2 stone and ripped you are on juice or growth or both....

all you have do is look at the Mr Olympia competition to see how competitors physiques have changed after the introduction of steriods and now with the introduction of GH....

Depending on height of course.

I'm 6' 5" and in shape weigh in at between 17 and 17 and a half (sadly I'm about 19st at the moment). At 17 and half you'd look at my physique and think, he's in shape, but you'd never mistake me for a bodybuilder. I've never taken supplements, roids or GH. I don't do weights (unless they're part of a floorwork circuit), I do a lot of manual labour though.

Look at Riddick Bowe for example (I know he ended up getting a bit fat), back in the days when he was in quality shape, he never looked like an iron slinger. Naturally big.

Arnold was on steroids from the age of 17, they were legal until some time in the 1970's. They obviously weren't as strong as they are now though.

edit: I've just realised you said over 17 and a half ripped. I've seen a good few lads over that weight who were natural and lean, but they were tall and not what you'd call 'shredded', abs out though. Not a bad rule of thumb I suppose, but it wouldn't stand up in a court of law .

FlawedGenius wrote:

knockout wrote:I always use the basic rule of thumb that if you are over 17 1/2 stone and ripped you are on juice or growth or both....

all you have do is look at the Mr Olympia competition to see how competitors physiques have changed after the introduction of steriods and now with the introduction of GH....

Depending on height of course.

I'm 6' 5" and in shape weigh in at between 17 and 17 and a half (sadly I'm about 19st at the moment). At 17 and half you'd look at my physique and think, he's in shape, but you'd never mistake me for a bodybuilder. I've never taken supplements, roids or GH. I don't do weights (unless they're part of a floorwork circuit), I do a lot of manual labour though.

Look at Riddick Bowe for example (I know he ended up getting a bit fat), back in the days when he was in quality shape, he never looked like an iron slinger. Naturally big.

Arnold was on steroids from the age of 17, they were legal until some time in the 1970's. They obviously weren't as strong as they are now though.

edit: I've just realised you said over 17 and a half ripped. I've seen a good few lads over that weight who were natural and lean, but they were tall and not what you'd call 'shredded', abs out though. Not a bad rule of thumb I suppose, but it wouldn't stand up in a court of law .

yeah if you are really tall then i guess its a bit different, Michael Grant was natural and he was 18 stone plus.....

Boxers i consider question marks:

RJJ
Wlad
Tyson (post Prison)
Moorer
Hearns (late in career)
Bahktov
Holyfield

Didn't Holyfield train with Lee Haney, who was given the cold sholder in BBing for doing TOO much juice? And also I remember reading that years ago he'd had a minor heart problem. Did I dream this?

He did train with Haney, you're right. Fred Hatfield (Dr. Squat) had a lot to do with sorting Holy's 'bulk up' too.

jameswilson wrote:

Coconut wrote:I heard he was around 8 per cent body fat. That's freaky low.

Pudzianowski coming to boxing would make boxing into a circus, if it isn't already. Leave him to K1. Or WSM, because he could be a great there if his heart doesn't give way by the time he's 30.

That size at 26 ish, they're taking the p1ss if they think anyone's taking them seriously as a clean sport. Fair play to him, though, he's done his time in the gym and eaten his chickens. He's probably also shrunk his pecker, made himself go bald and shortened his life by 40 years. If only I died 40 years early, I'd have an excuse.

8% isnt freakily low I had a test for that in my end of season fitness tests and Im 7% at 14stone2. Iv been drug tested as well so I dont think u need to use them to get ur body fat that low. A lot of people look at these men who compete in strongman and immediately say 'ah steroids' but I think they actually get regualarly drug tested. There are tell tail signs as well that you can actually see like a stomach that is muscular (6pac) but actually sticks out further than the chest when tensed up (roid belly.) Also what appears to be breast tissue that develops over the chest muscle itself (b1ch tits) is another symptom of some steroids. We are all told to watch out for this among each other to try and cut down on drug use. I aint seen any evidence of this among the WSM comprtitors so there must be some kind of undetectable steroid if these guys are using them.

I have been doing powerlifting for the past 3 years and i can tell you that 99.9% of these WSM competeters are on steriods or something equivelent. I train with a mate who won the Australian title in 2001 and he was telling me that every person that was in the top3 in all weights was using some sort of steriod.

Ben Keilty wrote:

jameswilson wrote:

Coconut wrote:I heard he was around 8 per cent body fat. That's freaky low.

Pudzianowski coming to boxing would make boxing into a circus, if it isn't already. Leave him to K1. Or WSM, because he could be a great there if his heart doesn't give way by the time he's 30.

That size at 26 ish, they're taking the p1ss if they think anyone's taking them seriously as a clean sport. Fair play to him, though, he's done his time in the gym and eaten his chickens. He's probably also shrunk his pecker, made himself go bald and shortened his life by 40 years. If only I died 40 years early, I'd have an excuse.

8% isnt freakily low I had a test for that in my end of season fitness tests and Im 7% at 14stone2. Iv been drug tested as well so I dont think u need to use them to get ur body fat that low. A lot of people look at these men who compete in strongman and immediately say 'ah steroids' but I think they actually get regualarly drug tested. There are tell tail signs as well that you can actually see like a stomach that is muscular (6pac) but actually sticks out further than the chest when tensed up (roid belly.) Also what appears to be breast tissue that develops over the chest muscle itself (b1ch tits) is another symptom of some steroids. We are all told to watch out for this among each other to try and cut down on drug use. I aint seen any evidence of this among the WSM comprtitors so there must be some kind of undetectable steroid if these guys are using them.

I have been doing powerlifting for the past 3 years and i can tell you that 99.9% of these WSM competeters are on steriods or something equivelent. I train with a mate who won the Australian title in 2001 and he was telling me that every person that was in the top3 in all weights was using some sort of steriod.

i remember that Aussie guy Nathan "megaman" Jones... guy was like 6'10" and 140kg..... good strongman but now he is in the WWF i think

knockout wrote:

Ben Keilty wrote:

jameswilson wrote: 8% isnt freakily low I had a test for that in my end of season fitness tests and Im 7% at 14stone2. Iv been drug tested as well so I dont think u need to use them to get ur body fat that low. A lot of people look at these men who compete in strongman and immediately say 'ah steroids' but I think they actually get regualarly drug tested. There are tell tail signs as well that you can actually see like a stomach that is muscular (6pac) but actually sticks out further than the chest when tensed up (roid belly.) Also what appears to be breast tissue that develops over the chest muscle itself (b1ch tits) is another symptom of some steroids. We are all told to watch out for this among each other to try and cut down on drug use. I aint seen any evidence of this among the WSM comprtitors so there must be some kind of undetectable steroid if these guys are using them.

I have been doing powerlifting for the past 3 years and i can tell you that 99.9% of these WSM competeters are on steriods or something equivelent. I train with a mate who won the Australian title in 2001 and he was telling me that every person that was in the top3 in all weights was using some sort of steriod.

i remember that Aussie guy Nathan "megaman" Jones... guy was like 6'10" and 140kg..... good strongman but now he is in the WWF i think

He didnt last long in the WWE, hes now gone on for a film career, after being in Troy i think.

Yep, he was the huge guy Pitt fought at the start. He quit strongman after Magnus Samuelsson borke his arm in an arm-wrestling comp.

Wasn't Nathan Jones in prison for a few years?

Matchfixer wrote:Wasn't Nathan Jones in prison for a few years?

yeah armed robbery, he was only young at the time. it was before his career in sports took off....

judges cited steriod abuse as one of the factors for his crazy behaviour

Looks like it's not just Big Ronny Coleman's feet that got cut off in the above post - item (f) of his list is missing, as well: ;)

f. (Big Ronny was just kidding in (e) about the 'lastly') Dope like a fiend.

Arnie also had some heart-valve problem surgically repaird a few years back. However, the incident of those types of things (which often start making themselves known in middle age) is pretty high, so it's not conclusive proof of 'roid use - however, Arnold has freely admitted to juicing, although he obviously was a big, strong, naturally gifted mofo long before that, and trained his ass off, to boot.

But all that extra mass puts a big strain on the heart and other body systems, so if you had (say) a mild congenital valve defect that long-term strain on the system could certainly exacerbate it. WSM finalist Johnny Perry, who was absolutely massive (nearly 400 lbs, and while not as ripped as Marius, he was not fat by any stretch) and surely doped to the gills, died a couple years back, I believe of heart failure or some similar system-breakdown thing. He wasn't even 30.

Eric the Viking wrote: WSM finalist Johnny Perry, who was absolutely massive (nearly 400 lbs, and while not as ripped as Marius, he was not fat by any stretch) and surely doped to the gills, died a couple years back, I believe of heart failure or some similar system-breakdown thing. He wasn't even 30.

Yes I remember Johnny Perry from the USA on WSM the guy was HUGE, I remember that he died but I've never found out what from.

Talking of other strongmen didn't Geoff Capes have a few schoolboy Amatuer fights?

KOJOE90 wrote:

Eric the Viking wrote: WSM finalist Johnny Perry, who was absolutely massive (nearly 400 lbs, and while not as ripped as Marius, he was not fat by any stretch) and surely doped to the gills, died a couple years back, I believe of heart failure or some similar system-breakdown thing. He wasn't even 30.

Yes I remember Johnny Perry from the USA on WSM the guy was HUGE, I remember that he died but I've never found out what from.

Talking of other strongmen didn't Geoff Capes have a few schoolboy Amatuer fights?

I can remember Jonny Perry jr he finished 4th in the final a few years back and I was thinking he would do really well as he was still young, then at the end of the show they said 'shortly after the filming of this Jonny Perry who finished 4th died' he was only like 24 I think a crying damn shame. Mark Iliffe (may not have spelt his sirname right) who won Britains Strongest man the year before last looked like he could do well also, then just before WSM was due to take place he was found hanged in his gym, he had comitted suicide. Truly shocking.

OD wilson and Jon Paul Sigmasson who were both great WSM competitors, JD came a close 2nd to JPS back in the day and JPS won it about three times both died of heart failure in there 30's

Geoff capes was an olympic shot putter, getting 4th or 5th in Moscow.... really talented guy. could sprint 40 yards real quick and had a 3m + standing long jump!!!!!