BoxRec

The Great John L wrote:

drunkenpiper36 wrote:I don't think Foreman was unskilled. I just think he had the wrong "kind" of skills for this type of fight. George in the 70's had a solid two-fisted attack. He could tie a man up well in the clinches. He knew the value of working the body and could cut of the ring fairly effectively. I'm not sure that these would be the right tools he'd need for fighting Vitali and I don't concur that his jab was better than Lewis's at any stage in their careers, but we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

The biggest difference between the Foreman and Lewis jabs is that Lewis actually knew what do with his jab. George did finally figure it out, but not until he was on Social Security.

That's a myth. This isn't knowing what to do with the jab?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdQdEhnWcDI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGhXIDRYzO8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwZaZ1sSBSM

Yes, George always knew what do when things were going his way, kinda like Wilder. Try looking for his jab when things didn't go as planned. That's why they attempted to retool him after the Lyle fight. Or was it after the Toronto 5? Anyway, I seem to recall that they added Archie Moore to his camp in order to once again attempt to brush up his skills, which they did quite well.

The best Foreman was the one that lost to Young. Shortened up his punches, improved defense, and actually paced himself. That version of George might have had a chance in Zaire. He might have actually known what to do when Ali came out and started pot shotting him with lead rights.

The Great John L wrote:Yes, George always knew what do when things were going his way, kinda like Wilder. Try looking for his jab when things didn't go as planned. That's why they attempted to retool him after the Lyle fight. Or was it after the Toronto 5? Anyway, I seem to recall that they added Archie Moore to his camp in order to once again attempt to brush up his skills, which they did quite well.

The best Foreman was the one that lost to Young. Shortened up his punches, improved defense, and actually paced himself. That version of George might have had a chance in Zaire. He might have actually known what to do when Ali came out and started pot shotting him with lead rights.

Foreman threw tons of jabs in the 5th round vs Lyle. Moore was in George's camp pre-Zaire, not post.

1970s George Foreman prior to Zaire walks through Klitschko like he did Ken Norton, [who also would beat Vitali]. Foreman would land H-bombs on Klitschko that the big guy never felt in his life.[Only Shavers maybe hit harder] Foreman somewhere between 3 and 5, with Klitschko unable to come out for the bell if he wasn't out cold in a heap on the canvas.

dempseyfire wrote:

The Great John L wrote:Yes, George always knew what do when things were going his way, kinda like Wilder. Try looking for his jab when things didn't go as planned. That's why they attempted to retool him after the Lyle fight. Or was it after the Toronto 5? Anyway, I seem to recall that they added Archie Moore to his camp in order to once again attempt to brush up his skills, which they did quite well.

The best Foreman was the one that lost to Young. Shortened up his punches, improved defense, and actually paced himself. That version of George might have had a chance in Zaire. He might have actually known what to do when Ali came out and started pot shotting him with lead rights.

Foreman threw tons of jabs in the 5th round vs Lyle. Moore was in George's camp pre-Zaire, not post.

Moore was in Georges camp pre and post Zaire actually.

Cap wrote:1970s George Foreman prior to Zaire walks through Klitschko like he did Ken Norton, [who also would beat Vitali]. Foreman would land H-bombs on Klitschko that the big guy never felt in his life.[Only Shavers maybe hit harder] Foreman somewhere between 3 and 5, with Klitschko unable to come out for the bell if he wasn't out cold in a heap on the canvas.

If light-hitting Ali could KO Foreman than Vitali certainly could. (And the highly ring savvy Vitali wouldn't have fallen for the silly rope a dope tactic).
I still can't believe Foreman did not destroy Ali in Zaire, by the way. One of the strangest occurrences in boxing history, in my opinion.

If Young could outbox Foreman, then Vitali could have as well. And no one of any era would flatten Vitali...he had a chin of granite.

As for Foreman walking through and beating Vitali in a similar fashion as he did to Ken Norton....Vitali was not even remotely similar to Norton in any way...style, power, chin, or success wise.

Just my opinion of course. :)

cjdragon wrote:
If light-hitting Ali could KO Foreman than Vitali certainly could. (And the highly ring savvy Vitali wouldn't have fallen for the silly rope a dope tactic).

If Young could outbox Foreman, then Vitali could have as well. And no one of any era would flatten Vitali...he had a chin of granite.

As for Foreman walking through and beating Vitali in a similar fashion as he did to Ken Norton....Vitali was not even remotely similar to Norton in any way...style, power, chin, or success wise.

Vitali has no similarity to Jimmy Young but he would 'outbox Foreman' - and yet Vitali can't be KOd like Norton because he has 'no similarity to Norton'?

Get real. You're so high on Vitali that you're utterly deluded. It's telling you have no opinion on much outside of your demigod Vitali Klitschko. Certainly you don't know what 'ring savvy' means, unless you thinks its a left left left right, run straight back if hit back.

Wins over fat 40 year old men in the 2000s mean nothing. Vitali was no boxer. He couldn't outbox a fat waning Lennox Lewis, and he couldn't outbox Chris Byrd, against whom he quit on his stool because "It hurts too much" (German translator on air, not my words). You don't get shredded by an old fat Lewis, quit versus Byrd, and trade off wins over fat 40 year old nonentities like Sanders and Briggs (men who couldn't compete in their own talent-laden 1990s era and were thus protected & held back) and then start "outboxing" and even KOing the greats of the sport. It's just too great a leap.

The fact you think Muhammad Ali was "light hitting" displays how little you know about boxing. If you want to look at "light hitting", check out Vitali's inability to drop Obed Sullivan (KOd clean in 30 seconds by puncher Tua in next fight), Chris Byrd (Splattered by Ike), Vaughn Bean (down heavily v Holyfield), Lennox Lewis (KOd one shot by McCall and Rahman), Corrie Sanders (decked several times inc by Art Weathers), Sam Peter, Shannon Briggs (Dropped hard by punchers & non-punchers), and Chisora (Annihilated next time out by Haye). He couldn't score one single knock down among these men and yet he's some sort of deadly hitter? In what wild white fantasia do you live?

Explain what makes Vitali K such a damaging hitter? A million KOs over nobody of any consequence whatsoever? His dropping Larry Donald? What's the eyebrow raising result that makes us say Vitali is hurting anybody of note?

Tuan_Jim wrote:

cjdragon wrote:
If light-hitting Ali could KO Foreman than Vitali certainly could. (And the highly ring savvy Vitali wouldn't have fallen for the silly rope a dope tactic).

If Young could outbox Foreman, then Vitali could have as well. And no one of any era would flatten Vitali...he had a chin of granite.

As for Foreman walking through and beating Vitali in a similar fashion as he did to Ken Norton....Vitali was not even remotely similar to Norton in any way...style, power, chin, or success wise.

Vitali has no similarity to Jimmy Young but he would 'outbox Foreman' - and yet Vitali can't be KOd like Norton because he has 'no similarity to Norton'?

Get real. You're so high on Vitali that you're utterly deluded. It's telling you have no opinion on much outside of your demigod Vitali Klitschko. Certainly you don't know what 'ring savvy' means, unless you thinks its a left left left right, run straight back if hit back.

Wins over fat 40 year old men in the 2000s mean nothing. Vitali was no boxer. He couldn't outbox a fat waning Lennox Lewis, and he couldn't outbox Chris Byrd, against whom he quit on his stool because "It hurts too much" (German translator on air, not my words). You don't get shredded by an old fat Lewis, quit versus Byrd, and trade off wins over fat 40 year old nonentities like Sanders and Briggs (men who couldn't compete in their own talent-laden 1990s era and were thus protected & held back) and then start "outboxing" and even KOing the greats of the sport. It's just too great a leap.

The fact you think Muhammad Ali was "light hitting" displays how little you know about boxing. If you want to look at "light hitting", check out Vitali's inability to drop Obed Sullivan (KOd clean in 30 seconds by puncher Tua in next fight), Chris Byrd (Splattered by Ike), Vaughn Bean (down heavily v Holyfield), Lennox Lewis (KOd one shot by McCall and Rahman), Corrie Sanders (decked several times inc by Art Weathers), Sam Peter, Shannon Briggs (Dropped hard by punchers & non-punchers), and Chisora (Annihilated next time out by Haye). He couldn't score one single knock down among these men and yet he's some sort of deadly hitter? In what wild white fantasia do you live?

Explain what makes Vitali K such a damaging hitter? A million KOs over nobody of any consequence whatsoever? His dropping Larry Donald? What's the eyebrow raising result that makes us say Vitali is hurting anybody of note?

Sorry, that's too silly to respond to. We are talking about a FANTASY FIGHT between two boxers who cannot currently fight each other.

I never enjoyed watching them fight but I think both Klitchko brothers have a great chance to beat every great fighter in history. Too big, too skilled, & most importantly, they recognize their limitations. They don't take chances.

70's Ref still tring to wake VITALY UP GOT CLOCKED END ROUND 2.
90's VITALY FEEL'S THE POWER EARLY RUN'S TO A BORING UN DEC.

wvboxer wrote:I never enjoyed watching them fight but I think both Klitchko brothers have a great chance to beat every great fighter in history. Too big, too skilled, & most importantly, they recognize their limitations. They don't take chances.

AGAINST THE CREAM OF THE CROP THEY WILL HAVE TO TAKE CHANCE'S
SPELL'S DANGER FOR BOTH SIBLING'S

They are similar in the sense, that both were not perfect from the technical side, but both were big, strong and quite unorthodox. Still Vitali was better, he was bigger, he had a better chin. I'd pick Vitali over any version of Foreman.

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑13 Nov 2014, 13:00 Seriously, before we bother to reel off the long long list of dangerous men Foreman beat, does Vitali even have a win comparable to prime 1992 Alex Stewart?

You mean the raw swinger who got beaten a lot and gave Foreman a double head???

At about the same age, Vitali fought Tomasz Adamek who was 44-1 and had beaten Chris Arreola (Foreman Fat) and MIchael Grant (Foreman Big and Slow) to get the shot at Vitali who was 40 years old...

Foreman boxed the ass off Adamek and was the first man to stop him...

A guy who fought a lot like Foreman was Sam Peter... who was 30-1 and had only lot by decision to Wladimir Klitschko..

In fact when Eddie Chambers outboxed Sam Peter it looked a lot like Jimmy Young outboxing Foreman.

Vitali boxed Peter to death and battered him to a stoppage... He was too big and powerful for SP and ruined him.

The common opponent was Shannon Briggs.

Foreman beat Briggs pretty comfortably don't care what the judges say.

Foreman beat a much better version.

For what its worth thing both seventies and pre 1994 Foreman beat Vitali.

Klee Gluckman wrote: ↑03 Apr 2018, 01:12 The common opponent was Shannon Briggs. Foreman beat Briggs pretty comfortably don't care what the judges say.

You can't change HIstory just because you like to make up BS.... Briggs landed more punches and beat Foreman... Vitali was also in his 40's when he fought Briggs and years older than Briggs... He outscored Briggs 10 to 1 -- He put him in the hospital with broken facial bones... Briggs admitted Vitali was a much better fighter than Lennox Lewis.

Vitali would have done the same thing to Foreman he did to Briggs -- boxed him to death and put him in a hospital.

Both men are alike in terms of power and toughness. Foreman's only stoppage loss was more to sheer exhaustion than anything else, and Klitschko's two losses were by TKO by cuts and by a blown out shoulder.

It'd of been interesting to have seen how the 6'3" 215 pound Foreman would have dealt with the 6'7"-6'8" Vitali... Let alone the 260 pound version of Foreman.

Albeit George did have fights with large/tall men before such as Chuck Wepner (6'5") and Jack O'Halloran (6'6") but those types were nowhere near Klitschko's class.

I don't think the older Klitschko brother would have been intimidated by the young Foreman, and would have expected the Houstonian to foul and be excessively fierce. Vitali fought harder when hurt (ie, Lewis & Sanders) and it'd of been a wildly sloppy brawl with arms and legs everywhere. I think Klitschko's got the better conditioning and mental toughness, so he'd of edged a decision.

As for the older version of Foreman.... I think if he didn't press the issue, then neither would Vitali... Wide, unaminous decision for Klitschko.

It's ironic that during the Lewis-Klitschko bout on the HBO telecast Foreman declared that if Klitschko beat Lennox he'd make a comeback. However when Lewis prevailed and he was asked if he wanted to fight the Britain he said he wasn't interested and all talks of comebacks went away until Foreman turned 54 and said he'd return again but never did.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑03 Apr 2018, 04:49 It's ironic that during the Lewis-Klitschko bout on the HBO telecast Foreman declared that if Klitschko beat Lennox he'd make a comeback. However when Lewis prevailed and he was asked if he wanted to fight the Britain he said he wasn't interested and all talks of comebacks went away until Foreman turned 54 and said he'd return again but never did.

Foreman knew he was a done dishrag... He had nothing left at all...

The Michael Moorer fight was the LAST KO punch he ever threw... He couldn't muster any power anymore... He couldn't come close to stopping Crawford Grimsley for Kri Sake..... Grimsley was knocked cold in a split second in his next fight.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑03 Apr 2018, 04:49
It's ironic that during the Lewis-Klitschko bout on the HBO telecast Foreman declared that if Klitschko beat Lennox he'd make a comeback. However when Lewis prevailed and he was asked if he wanted to fight the Britain he said he wasn't interested and all talks of comebacks went away until Foreman turned 54 and said he'd return again but never did.

Foreman is on twitter, he often answers questions from fans on there, someone asked him about fighting Lewis and he replied "Lewis was a fight I didn't want. Mama didn't raise no fool"

Kalan wrote: ↑03 Apr 2018, 05:03

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑03 Apr 2018, 04:49 It's ironic that during the Lewis-Klitschko bout on the HBO telecast Foreman declared that if Klitschko beat Lennox he'd make a comeback. However when Lewis prevailed and he was asked if he wanted to fight the Britain he said he wasn't interested and all talks of comebacks went away until Foreman turned 54 and said he'd return again but never did.

Foreman knew he was a done dishrag... He had nothing left at all...

The Michael Moorer fight was the LAST KO punch he ever threw... He couldn't muster any power anymore... He couldn't come close to stopping Crawford Grimsley for Kri Sake..... Grimsley was knocked cold in a split second in his next fight.

Jimmy Thunder was a baaaaad man. Have him on Facebook. But yes, it was more than obvious at that point that Foreman's power was virtually non-existent (ie, Schulz, Grimsley).

Still, had he made a comeback I'd of maybe (keyword there, maybe) liked his chances against someone like John Ruiz or Nicolai Valuev, maybe Oleg Maskaev.

I wouldn't like his chances -- if he couldn't hurt Grimsley....

There comes a time .... You know you're done... It's over??? .... Yeah man, it's over.

Sadly Vitaly could probably have beaten any fighter in history. His mental fortitude and ring savvy could carry the day against anyone.

tennessee wrote: ↑05 Apr 2018, 08:54 Sadly Vitaly could probably have beaten any fighter in history. His mental fortitude and ring savvy could carry the day against anyone.

Also awkwardness, great ability to use his size and iron chin. He could make anyone feel uncomfortable in the ring with him.

I believe it's be more like Foreman V. Lyle...Vitali is one tough chin!

tennessee wrote: ↑05 Apr 2018, 08:54 Sadly Vitaly could probably have beaten any fighter in history. His mental fortitude and ring savvy could carry the day against anyone.

Still he didn't now did he? Lost to the two best guys he fought and is imo one of the most overrated hw of all time. As for Foreman, I believe Vitali would have lost to the 70' version and beaten the 90's version.