BoxRec

tiny_acres wrote:You have to be in complete denial to think that Evander was not on the juice.

As a boxing fan I cannot take a warrior of umpteen heroic performances in the ring and slap a 'drug cheat' label on him, just because a few imbeciles on the internet say he is. There's no evidence whatsoever.

The thought of you being called upon to do jury service is genuinely frightening.

Tuan_Jim wrote:

tiny_acres wrote:You have to be in complete denial to think that Evander was not on the juice.

As a boxing fan I cannot take a warrior of umpteen heroic performances in the ring and slap a 'drug cheat' label on him, just because a few imbeciles on the internet say he is. There's no evidence whatsoever.

The thought of you being called upon to do jury service is genuinely frightening.

\

Evan Fields!!!!!!

Are you insane.If that ain't a smoking gun what the freak is????

Tuan_Jim wrote:

tiny_acres wrote:You have to be in complete denial to think that Evander was not on the juice.

As a boxing fan I cannot take a warrior of umpteen heroic performances in the ring and slap a 'drug cheat' label on him, just because a few imbeciles on the internet say he is. There's no evidence whatsoever.

The thought of you being called upon to do jury service is genuinely frightening.

What is the evidence that the father of 11, with 7 women is a super-stud on anabolics?

As mentioned his name surfaced in the Orlando bust, from both the Albany Times-Union and from Sports Illustrated. (now from the Herald)
Holyfield’s name does not appear on documents, because the drugs in question were ordered by a patient named “Evan Fields,” whose birthday, Oct. 19, 1962, happens to coincide with Holyfield’s. (Fields’ listed address was “794 Evander, Fairfield, Ga.”) And when the SI reporters dialed the number listed on Evan Fields’ prescription, Holyfield answered the phone.

According to the records of the investigation, Holyfield (or “Fields”) obtained, in June of 2004, testosterone, Glukor and injection supplies, and three weeks later picked up five vials of Human Growth Hormone

In September of the same year, incidentally, “Evan Fields” returned to his urologist, this time to be treated for “hypogonadism.” Two months later, after losing to Larry Donald on a Madison Square Garden undercard, Holyfield was suspended in New York for what NYSAC chairman Ron Scott Stevens cited as “diminished skills.”
To his credit, Holyfield did not at the time avail himself of the obvious avenue of escape. He could, after all, have told Ron Scott Stevens “I don’t have diminished skills. You’d fight that way too if your gonads were the size of a pair of bb’s.”

Dr. Margaret Goodman, now the chief ringside physician for the Nevada State Athletic Commission, told the SI reporters that back in 1994, when Holyfield evinced evidence of a heart defect follwing his loss to Michael Moorer, commission doctors believed the malady to be consistent with HGH use, but since Holyfield denied having used the substance they could not pursue the theory.
The the Boxing News states that a persona using a pseudonym similar to Holyfield, with the same birthdate as Evander Holyfield, at the same address as Evnader Holyfield ordered anabolics. Further Holyfield suffered a heart condition that has been linked to HGH.

Sounds like this is close to a knockdown.

No it doesn't.

Straight away the article has glaring factual errors.

The heart 'defect' was a total misdiagnosis, the result of hospital treatment post Moorer fight. Please look at the contemporaneous physical reportage where doctors describe in detail how they misread Holyfield's heart, O blinkered Oracle of the copy & paste passing of judgement.

Telling that you couldn't provide a link for that authentic sounding story.

God some fans are so delusional its pathetic. I remember arguing with the same types about Armstrong. They swore up and down that he was a hero and would never do anything like that. Even as the evidence mounted. Same with some of the baseball nuts who refused to believe Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa's canned ham forearms and jawbone of an ass were the result of steroids even though one was openly using other legal performance enhancers and the other got caught with a corked bat. But hey, Holyfield had an insane build at 14 right?



LOL

Good to know I had a freakishly insane build at 14 also...

Yeah, this guy didnt use steroids and there is absolutely no evidence he did:



Because its not like the honorable god fearing Holyfield would ever cheat (insert any number of elbow, headbutt, lowblow references here.)



Holfyield turned pro at 177 lbs of solid, in shape muscle at age 22. Nine years later at 31 he weighed 217 lbs of solid ripped muscle against Bowe. Id love to see the hands of everyone who gained 40 pounds of solid skeleto-muscular weight (not fat or middle age spread, Im talking about ripped solid muscle) AT ANY POINT after puberty naturally and did so while competing in what is essentially an endurance sport burning thousands of calories weekly. Nobody? No? I didnt think so. I guess Holyfield just has one of those rare glandular problems that lets him magically grow muscle... while working out with known steroid abusers... and while purchasing steroids... for his uncle...

I think you've nailed it there klompton.

klompton wrote:God some fans are so delusional its pathetic. I remember arguing with the same types about Armstrong. They swore up and down that he was a hero and would never do anything like that. Even as the evidence mounted. Same with some of the baseball nuts who refused to believe Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa's canned ham forearms and jawbone of an ass were the result of steroids even though one was openly using other legal performance enhancers and the other got caught with a corked bat. But hey, Holyfield had an insane build at 14 right?



LOL

Good to know I had a freakishly insane build at 14 also...

Yeah, this guy didnt use steroids and there is absolutely no evidence he did:



Because its not like the honorable god fearing Holyfield would ever cheat (insert any number of elbow, headbutt, lowblow references here.)



Holfyield turned pro at 177 lbs of solid, in shape muscle at age 22. Nine years later at 31 he weighed 217 lbs of solid ripped muscle against Bowe. Id love to see the hands of everyone who gained 40 pounds of solid skeleto-muscular weight (not fat or middle age spread, Im talking about ripped solid muscle) AT ANY POINT after puberty naturally and did so while competing in what is essentially an endurance sport burning thousands of calories weekly. Nobody? No? I didnt think so. I guess Holyfield just has one of those rare glandular problems that lets him magically grow muscle... while working out with known steroid abusers... and while purchasing steroids... for his uncle...

Do not insult his hero.

It is obvious.Again you have to be in complete denial to not see it.
Thanks Klompton

He was in some freaky shape for Tyson!

Tomasino wrote:He was in some freaky shape for Tyson!

And it was all natural too...

klompton wrote:

Tomasino wrote:He was in some freaky shape for Tyson!

And it was all natural too...

I'm no expert on muscle building but it, along with the Evan Fields stuff is pretty damming. I honestly think Evander ruined his fluidity by abusing this stuff and being so pumped up. He could really box and move at 190.

Edit: is it truly impossible for an athlete to put on this much muscle naturally over 9 years?

It is very hard to gain 40 pounds of muscle at any time for any duration under any circumstances after your natural growth period is ended or even near completion. Factor that in with the fact that its hard to MAINTAIN added muscle just living everyday life much less burning calories like crazy doing daily roadwork and boxing training and yeah, its pretty "miraculous." Thats why when guys like Jones and Holyfield blow up, look ripped, continue to excel, and get implicated in steroids scandals its pretty easy to make the connection. Ask a natural bodybuilder how hard it is to add muscle year after year and maintain that. The human body naturally hits a wall, that wall comes much faster in boxing because your body realises that it doesnt need all that muscle to do what is essentially a cardio sport. Look at marathon runners are those guys huge and ripped with bodybuilder bodies? No. If you saw a marathon runner that was built like Holy. A marathon runner who does it every day, youd wonder how he packed on all that weight. You wonder how this guy was gaining weight while doing all of that work. If 300 pound fat guy starts running marathons and yet somehow gets fatter and fatter but denied that he was living on a diet of twinkies you question him wouldnt you? Well, when a guy starts out as a relatively lithe fighter, works hard every day boxing and running yet packs on 40 pounds (and I dont care if its 2 years or 10) your going to wonder how he did it. When you find out hes training with Lee Haney, a poster child for steroid abuse, goes bald overnight, develops heart problems (and yeah, I dont care what he said about his heart problems, Schwarzennegger's heart problems were congenital... yeah, and just happened to coincide with his physique turning to piss because the doctors likely told him to layoff steroids or hed die... but I digress) and then gets caught buying steroids under an assumed name for his "uncle" it all pretty much makes sense.

klompton wrote:It is very hard to gain 40 pounds of muscle at any time for any duration under any circumstances after your natural growth period is ended or even near completion. Factor that in with the fact that its hard to MAINTAIN added muscle just living everyday life much less burning calories like crazy doing daily roadwork and boxing training and yeah, its pretty "miraculous." Thats why when guys like Jones and Holyfield blow up, look ripped, continue to excel, and get implicated in steroids scandals its pretty easy to make the connection. Ask a natural bodybuilder how hard it is to add muscle year after year and maintain that. The human body naturally hits a wall, that wall comes much faster in boxing because your body realises that it doesnt need all that muscle to do what is essentially a cardio sport. Look at marathon runners are those guys huge and ripped with bodybuilder bodies? No. If you saw a marathon runner that was built like Holy. A marathon runner who does it every day, youd wonder how he packed on all that weight. You wonder how this guy was gaining weight while doing all of that work. If 300 pound fat guy starts running marathons and yet somehow gets fatter and fatter but denied that he was living on a diet of twinkies you question him wouldnt you? Well, when a guy starts out as a relatively lithe fighter, works hard every day boxing and running yet packs on 40 pounds (and I dont care if its 2 years or 10) your going to wonder how he did it. When you find out hes training with Lee Haney, a poster child for steroid abuse, goes bald overnight, develops heart problems (and yeah, I dont care what he said about his heart problems, Schwarzennegger's heart problems were congenital... yeah, and just happened to coincide with his physique turning to piss because the doctors likely told him to layoff steroids or hed die... but I digress) and then gets caught buying steroids under an assumed name for his "uncle" it all pretty much makes sense.

You are banging your head against a wall.Some people will not use logic.

klompton wrote:It is very hard to gain 40 pounds of muscle at any time for any duration under any circumstances after your natural growth period is ended or even near completion. Factor that in with the fact that its hard to MAINTAIN added muscle just living everyday life much less burning calories like crazy doing daily roadwork and boxing training and yeah, its pretty "miraculous." Thats why when guys like Jones and Holyfield blow up, look ripped, continue to excel, and get implicated in steroids scandals its pretty easy to make the connection. Ask a natural bodybuilder how hard it is to add muscle year after year and maintain that. The human body naturally hits a wall, that wall comes much faster in boxing because your body realises that it doesnt need all that muscle to do what is essentially a cardio sport. Look at marathon runners are those guys huge and ripped with bodybuilder bodies? No. If you saw a marathon runner that was built like Holy. A marathon runner who does it every day, youd wonder how he packed on all that weight. You wonder how this guy was gaining weight while doing all of that work. If 300 pound fat guy starts running marathons and yet somehow gets fatter and fatter but denied that he was living on a diet of twinkies you question him wouldnt you? Well, when a guy starts out as a relatively lithe fighter, works hard every day boxing and running yet packs on 40 pounds (and I dont care if its 2 years or 10) your going to wonder how he did it. When you find out hes training with Lee Haney, a poster child for steroid abuse, goes bald overnight, develops heart problems (and yeah, I dont care what he said about his heart problems, Schwarzennegger's heart problems were congenital... yeah, and just happened to coincide with his physique turning to piss because the doctors likely told him to layoff steroids or hed die... but I digress) and then gets caught buying steroids under an assumed name for his "uncle" it all pretty much makes sense.

Thanks. With that being said do you think he belongs in the hall or should his record as a champion at HW be scratched? Middle ground? The guys a great fighter but obviously abused performance enhancing drugs, very successfully, having not been caught by the inept drug testing. I'm with you on Jones. I guess James Toney had what they call bitch tits too, that's what seemed to happen to Swarznegger

Tomasino wrote:

klompton wrote:It is very hard to gain 40 pounds of muscle at any time for any duration under any circumstances after your natural growth period is ended or even near completion. Factor that in with the fact that its hard to MAINTAIN added muscle just living everyday life much less burning calories like crazy doing daily roadwork and boxing training and yeah, its pretty "miraculous." Thats why when guys like Jones and Holyfield blow up, look ripped, continue to excel, and get implicated in steroids scandals its pretty easy to make the connection. Ask a natural bodybuilder how hard it is to add muscle year after year and maintain that. The human body naturally hits a wall, that wall comes much faster in boxing because your body realises that it doesnt need all that muscle to do what is essentially a cardio sport. Look at marathon runners are those guys huge and ripped with bodybuilder bodies? No. If you saw a marathon runner that was built like Holy. A marathon runner who does it every day, youd wonder how he packed on all that weight. You wonder how this guy was gaining weight while doing all of that work. If 300 pound fat guy starts running marathons and yet somehow gets fatter and fatter but denied that he was living on a diet of twinkies you question him wouldnt you? Well, when a guy starts out as a relatively lithe fighter, works hard every day boxing and running yet packs on 40 pounds (and I dont care if its 2 years or 10) your going to wonder how he did it. When you find out hes training with Lee Haney, a poster child for steroid abuse, goes bald overnight, develops heart problems (and yeah, I dont care what he said about his heart problems, Schwarzennegger's heart problems were congenital... yeah, and just happened to coincide with his physique turning to piss because the doctors likely told him to layoff steroids or hed die... but I digress) and then gets caught buying steroids under an assumed name for his "uncle" it all pretty much makes sense.

Thanks. With that being said do you think he belongs in the hall or should his record as a champion at HW be scratched? Middle ground? The guys a great fighter but obviously abused performance enhancing drugs, very successfully, having not been caught by the inept drug testing. I'm with you on Jones. I guess James Toney had what they call bitch tits too, that's what seemed to happen to Swarznegger

Im pretty militant about a no tolerance policy for PED users in any sport. Holy was one of my favorites, same with Shane, and in my opinion they shouldnt be in the Hall of Fame. As far as Im concerned Vargas, Mosely, Holy, Jones, Toney, etc will always have an asterix by their name and guys like that should not sit in the same halls as guys like Archie Moore (who also blew up in weight but clearly did it naturally and often showing some flab in the process), Mickey Walker, and other legendary fighters that weight jumped successfully without the help of PEDs. Those are the true giants of the sport. Not cheaters.

klompton wrote:

Tomasino wrote:

klompton wrote:It is very hard to gain 40 pounds of muscle at any time for any duration under any circumstances after your natural growth period is ended or even near completion. Factor that in with the fact that its hard to MAINTAIN added muscle just living everyday life much less burning calories like crazy doing daily roadwork and boxing training and yeah, its pretty "miraculous." Thats why when guys like Jones and Holyfield blow up, look ripped, continue to excel, and get implicated in steroids scandals its pretty easy to make the connection. Ask a natural bodybuilder how hard it is to add muscle year after year and maintain that. The human body naturally hits a wall, that wall comes much faster in boxing because your body realises that it doesnt need all that muscle to do what is essentially a cardio sport. Look at marathon runners are those guys huge and ripped with bodybuilder bodies? No. If you saw a marathon runner that was built like Holy. A marathon runner who does it every day, youd wonder how he packed on all that weight. You wonder how this guy was gaining weight while doing all of that work. If 300 pound fat guy starts running marathons and yet somehow gets fatter and fatter but denied that he was living on a diet of twinkies you question him wouldnt you? Well, when a guy starts out as a relatively lithe fighter, works hard every day boxing and running yet packs on 40 pounds (and I dont care if its 2 years or 10) your going to wonder how he did it. When you find out hes training with Lee Haney, a poster child for steroid abuse, goes bald overnight, develops heart problems (and yeah, I dont care what he said about his heart problems, Schwarzennegger's heart problems were congenital... yeah, and just happened to coincide with his physique turning to piss because the doctors likely told him to layoff steroids or hed die... but I digress) and then gets caught buying steroids under an assumed name for his "uncle" it all pretty much makes sense.

Thanks. With that being said do you think he belongs in the hall or should his record as a champion at HW be scratched? Middle ground? The guys a great fighter but obviously abused performance enhancing drugs, very successfully, having not been caught by the inept drug testing. I'm with you on Jones. I guess James Toney had what they call bitch tits too, that's what seemed to happen to Swarznegger

Im pretty militant about a no tolerance policy for PED users in any sport. Holy was one of my favorites, same with Shane, and in my opinion they shouldnt be in the Hall of Fame. As far as Im concerned Vargas, Mosely, Holy, Jones, Toney, etc will always have an asterix by their name and guys like that should not sit in the same halls as guys like Archie Moore (who also blew up in weight but clearly did it naturally and often showing some flab in the process), Mickey Walker, and other legendary fighters that weight jumped successfully without the help of PEDs. Those are the true giants of the sport. Not cheaters.

I agree with you. It's difficult when it's your favourites but it's the right thing. I honestly think Evander would have been better natural but he obviously didn't agree. He must have felt he needed the extra strength and weight.

I see guys at the gym pumped up with steroids they are strong one or two months and weak for four it's a strange thing to do considering most are not athletes.

I have a friend of a friend who says it is utterly rife in UFC, not frowned upon at all by the fighters. What is frowned on is getting caught. I think this will be the first sport to embrace PEDs despite their current stance.

Tomasino wrote: I have a friend of a friend who says it is utterly rife in UFC, not frowned upon at all by the fighters. What is frowned on is getting caught. I think this will be the first sport to embrace PEDs despite their current stance.

I can believe that about the UFC. You can look at those guys and they dont pass the eyeball test. Even Georges St. Pierre who is high and mighty in his condemning of everyone in the sport using PEDs Ive thought he was using PEDs since before the discussion ever came up. The way he sometimes looks skinny and then other times looks huge and ripped sure seems like a guy who is cycling on and off. We had a guy like that here who was a trainer at the gym I used to workout at. He was huge, muscular, ripped, but he had muscles in places that you cant work them to get them bigger: His jaw muscles looked like a friggin gorilla. Thats a big clue there. When a guys jaw starts getting muscular with the rest of him, well, you dont get that chewing hubba bubba. Anyway, one day I saw him at the mall and he was no bigger than me. Just an average guy, nothing special, his neck was smaller, his face was leaner without the giant jaw muscle. You knew then what he was up to. Next time I saw him a few months later he had packed on a good 20 or 30 pounds. Im sure hed tell everyone he just worked out harder than everyone and knew his body well enough to know how to get the most out of his workouts. Bullshit. He just had the hookups and the gear and wasnt afraid to stick a needle in his ass to make himself feel like a man.

klompton wrote:It is very hard to gain 40 pounds of muscle at any time for any duration under any circumstances after your natural growth period is ended or even near completion. Factor that in with the fact that its hard to MAINTAIN added muscle just living everyday life much less burning calories like crazy doing daily roadwork and boxing training and yeah, its pretty "miraculous." Thats why when guys like Jones and Holyfield blow up, look ripped, continue to excel, and get implicated in steroids scandals its pretty easy to make the connection. Ask a natural bodybuilder how hard it is to add muscle year after year and maintain that.

I've been telling people this for years but nobody wants to hear.

It is so sad to think that if a few of the elite have been caught or highly suspicious then the real problem would extend much further. So we are talking about a whole generation of boxing that is basically full of cheats. My brother used to joke about the World Strongest Man events that the competitors are drug checked to make sure they ARE on the juice lol. . .

Is it time to accept drugs in boxing ? I mean the penalty for being caught is so poor compared to say athletics. I never thought about it much before but the physiques of todays fighters are quite scary compared to the past. I mean you had some well built guys in the past ; Emile Griffith, Rubin Carter come to mind ... but today is something else. I put it down to 'superior conditioning' and the availabilty of legal supplements.

Tyson intimated a few times that if Heavyweights are not on the juice they could not be competitive in todays day and age.

That's how I see it.

Justin Gatlin is supposed to be clean now but is running the same times as when he was caught.

There's no need for proof. It's obvious.

So are the authorities aware of it and turn a blind eye??

As long as they're making money and they're not forced to act then of course.

In sprinting the difference between 10.0 and 9.7 is PEDs.

Man it upsets me reading this...imagine a 240lb solid rocky marciano with a Jaw Bone like an 'Ass' ..sheesh!!

Ezzard wrote:

klompton wrote:It is very hard to gain 40 pounds of muscle at any time for any duration under any circumstances after your natural growth period is ended or even near completion. Factor that in with the fact that its hard to MAINTAIN added muscle just living everyday life much less burning calories like crazy doing daily roadwork and boxing training and yeah, its pretty "miraculous." Thats why when guys like Jones and Holyfield blow up, look ripped, continue to excel, and get implicated in steroids scandals its pretty easy to make the connection. Ask a natural bodybuilder how hard it is to add muscle year after year and maintain that.

I've been telling people this for years but nobody wants to hear.

There's a poster on the British section called Toby who knows a lot about all this, it is pretty obvious isn't it?

Ezzard wrote:That's how I see it.

Justin Gatlin is supposed to be clean now but is running the same times as when he was caught.

There's no need for proof. It's obvious.

There is science based evidence that the physical benefits of taking PEDS can stay with you for years. This is the article I read.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/29510575

evrenb wrote:Man it upsets me reading this...imagine a 240lb solid rocky marciano with a Jaw Bone like an 'Ass' ..sheesh!!

Since the roids have been prevalent, fighters might look better but I don't reckon they fight better, then again it's not me who's getting hit.