Saunders v Eubank Jr

[digzee]

Success as an amateur boxer is fairly indicative of a decent grounding and ability to box competitively in front of a crowd. I'd say that generally a good amateur has put in time and effort and shown commitment to the sport, the ingredients are there to have a good pro career though amateur success does not guarantee pro success.

Lets be honest- how many fighters that have gone on to be either national champions as a pro or world champions and elite level fighters have had no amateur background whatsoever.

Then how can you pick Eubank to win so comfortably when his amateur record wasn't great and hasn't done anything as a pro? Especially against a guy who was a fantastic amateur and has looked good as a pro.

[lefty]

Success as an amateur boxer is fairly indicative of a decent grounding and ability to box competitively in front of a crowd. I'd say that generally a good amateur has put in time and effort and shown commitment to the sport, the ingredients are there to have a good pro career though amateur success does not guarantee pro success.

Lets be honest- how many fighters that have gone on to be either national champions as a pro or world champions and elite level fighters have had no amateur background whatsoever.

Then how can you pick Eubank to win so comfortably when his amateur record wasn't great and hasn't done anything as a pro? Especially against a guy who was a fantastic amateur and has looked good as a pro.

Just believe he'll do it. The case could be argued for that in regards to Catterall beating Stalker aswell.

[expe]

Lets be honest- how many fighters that have gone on to be either national champions as a pro or world champions and elite level fighters have had no amateur background whatsoever.

Then how can you pick Eubank to win so comfortably when his amateur record wasn't great and hasn't done anything as a pro? Especially against a guy who was a fantastic amateur and has looked good as a pro.

Just believe he'll do it. The case could be argued for that in regards to Catterall beating Stalker aswell.

Catterall had looked good as a pro and Stalker had looked pretty poor. Saunders has beaten a number of good fighters, Eubank Jr's beaten bums and I'm yet to be impressed by him, I don't consider knocking over Latvians impressive, that's what they're brought over for.

[expe]

expe is right about the conversion rate of ABA winners to world champions, but we've only had, what, four world champions in the last 50 years? Lennox: Canadian amateur. Haye (cruiser): No ABA. Joe: ABA winner; and Conteh: ABA winner.

Hatton won the ABAs too. We've had more than 4 world champions too, unless you're going off one world champion per division and if we did then in some divisions there hasn't been a world champion for decades.

[digzee]

Stalker never looked good as a pro though and didn't win a British title let alone European, this is about levels and BJS is a couple above Eubank right now.

[lefty]

Then how can you pick Eubank to win so comfortably when his amateur record wasn't great and hasn't done anything as a pro? Especially against a guy who was a fantastic amateur and has looked good as a pro.

Just believe he'll do it. The case could be argued for that in regards to Catterall beating Stalker aswell.

Catterall had looked good as a pro and Stalker had looked pretty poor. Saunders has beaten a number of good fighters, Eubank Jr's beaten bums and I'm yet to be impressed by him, I don't consider knocking over Latvians impressive, that's what they're brought over for.

Some of them were decent that Saunders has beaten some were pretty average IMO. Fletcher is chinny as hell and the only fighter of any sort of significance that he beat was bursak and he's not great either. Blandamura had never beaten anyone bar some obscure Austrian that nobody has ever heard of and then you have O'sullivan who is a solid fighter but nothing too great and then you have Ryder who is the best win on his record id say. We dont really know how good Ryder is either in truth aside from beat O'Kane whose looked awful pretty much every time ive seen him. I cant argue with the competition Eubank has beaten upto now as it has been poor but personally i've looked at some of the attributes he possesses and thus come to the conclusion i have. Obviously beating Latvians in style by itself doesnt mean anything.

[lefty]

Stalker never looked good as a pro though and didn't win a British title let alone European, this is about levels and BJS is a couple above Eubank right now.

Sometimes the british title is harder to win than the european though. Based on who the opponent is.

[Sklar]

expe is right about the conversion rate of ABA winners to world champions, but we've only had, what, four world champions in the last 50 years? Lennox: Canadian amateur. Haye (cruiser): No ABA. Joe: ABA winner; and Conteh: ABA winner.

Hatton won the ABAs too. We've had more than 4 world champions too, unless you're going off one world champion per division and if we did then in some divisions there hasn't been a world champion for decades.

I mean people who I class as proper world champions i.e. genuine best in their division. I'm undecided whether Ricky was a world champion or he wasn't.

[palooka]

Hatton was the best in the division for some time and he was a bona fide world champion IMO.

[JC]

expe is right about the conversion rate of ABA winners to world champions, but we've only had, what, four world champions in the last 50 years? Lennox: Canadian amateur. Haye (cruiser): No ABA. Joe: ABA winner; and Conteh: ABA winner.

How many world champions have we had (I mean even just belt holders of the 4 main org bodies) that have had no real amateur background whatsoever though? I cant imagine there's any!

Eubank Sr didn't have much of a a successful amateur career, Scott Quigg would be another if you count him as a belt holder.

Very much the exceptions obviously.

[Brian Moore]

Eubank Jr will show us something different. He will give Saunders a good hiding. Mark my words.

[lefty]

expe is right about the conversion rate of ABA winners to world champions, but we've only had, what, four world champions in the last 50 years? Lennox: Canadian amateur. Haye (cruiser): No ABA. Joe: ABA winner; and Conteh: ABA winner.

How many world champions have we had (I mean even just belt holders of the 4 main org bodies) that have had no real amateur background whatsoever though? I cant imagine there's any!

Eubank Sr didn't have much of a a successful amateur career, Scott Quigg would be another if you count him as a belt holder.

Very much the exceptions obviously.

Good spots. Like you say though the exceptions on the whole.

[palooka]

Eubank Jr will show us something different. He will give Saunders a good hiding. Mark my words.

OK but are you, Brian Moore?

[CheckHook]

Saunders, easy nights work. Still don't understand the hype around Eubank...

[Finn]

For me, I'm going Saunders. I said it when this fight was first discussed, and I'm sticking with it. This is a BIG step up for Eubank and he could find himself sorely outmatched tonight...

I would ask each of you to look at the professional record of young Chris... Consider the list of opponents that he has faced and their morbid lack of success in the sport.

For me, all the evidence points to a conclusive Saunders victory. And I would make a number of statements to back this up.

1. Eubank has been a professional for three years and has had eighteen fights.
And to put that in to context, the likes of Carl Frampton has only had nineteen fights and he's a World Champion and has challenged for & defended a European Title. When comparing that to young Chris, what has he done? What impact has he made in the sport?

2. Eubank has fought only had a single scheduled 12 round fight.
The fact is that he's never went past eight rounds. He is venturing in to the unknwn tonight.

3. Eubank has never beat a British Champion.
Despite the moderate number of fights that he has had, none of his opponents have ever held the Lonsdale Belt.
Now compare that to Saunders who has won the British, Commonwealth & European Titles.

4. Who exactly has Chris faced?
Are his best opponents Terry Carruthers & Bradley Pryce?
Now compare that to the opponents that Saunders has faced and defeated:
John Ryder, Jarrod Fletcher & Nick Blackwell who are each good fighters, and to a lesser degree opponents like Matthew Hall, Tony Hill & Gary O'Sullivan are certainly noteworthy as well. He's show that he can consistently go twelve rounds, no problem.

5. The rankings
Eubank is currently ranked 53rd in the world - consider that for a moment, he's not even in the top 50.
Saunders is ranked 14th - just a few places outside the top ten in the World.
Even the rankings tell you that it's a bad mismatch.

When you consider all of the evidence thus far, I don't see how you can predict a Eubank victory.
He's going in against the best young Middleweight on these islands, can I can't help but think that he could've fought some of the above guys to bring his level up a bit before facing Saunders.

I hope that this is a close contest, but I do think that there's a distinct possibility that Eubank just isn't prepared for Saunders and that he could be sorely outmatched here.

You have made fair points what I would say on point 1 is that there is a possibility that Eubank could be British common wealth and European champion tonight in 19 fights. This is also the final eliminator for the who workd title.

But let's face it frampton is an exceptional talent.

[Brian Moore]

Eubank Jr will show us something different. He will give Saunders a good hiding. Mark my words.

OK but are you, Brian Moore?

My name is Brian Moore

[lefty]

For me, I'm going Saunders. I said it when this fight was first discussed, and I'm sticking with it. This is a BIG step up for Eubank and he could find himself sorely outmatched tonight...

I would ask each of you to look at the professional record of young Chris... Consider the list of opponents that he has faced and their morbid lack of success in the sport.

For me, all the evidence points to a conclusive Saunders victory. And I would make a number of statements to back this up.

1. Eubank has been a professional for three years and has had eighteen fights.
And to put that in to context, the likes of Carl Frampton has only had nineteen fights and he's a World Champion and has challenged for & defended a European Title. When comparing that to young Chris, what has he done? What impact has he made in the sport?

2. Eubank has fought only had a single scheduled 12 round fight.
The fact is that he's never went past eight rounds. He is venturing in to the unknwn tonight.

3. Eubank has never beat a British Champion.
Despite the moderate number of fights that he has had, none of his opponents have ever held the Lonsdale Belt.
Now compare that to Saunders who has won the British, Commonwealth & European Titles.

4. Who exactly has Chris faced?
Are his best opponents Terry Carruthers & Bradley Pryce?
Now compare that to the opponents that Saunders has faced and defeated:
John Ryder, Jarrod Fletcher & Nick Blackwell who are each good fighters, and to a lesser degree opponents like Matthew Hall, Tony Hill & Gary O'Sullivan are certainly noteworthy as well. He's show that he can consistently go twelve rounds, no problem.

5. The rankings
Eubank is currently ranked 53rd in the world - consider that for a moment, he's not even in the top 50.
Saunders is ranked 14th - just a few places outside the top ten in the World.
Even the rankings tell you that it's a bad mismatch.

When you consider all of the evidence thus far, I don't see how you can predict a Eubank victory.
He's going in against the best young Middleweight on these islands, can I can't help but think that he could've fought some of the above guys to bring his level up a bit before facing Saunders.

I hope that this is a close contest, but I do think that there's a distinct possibility that Eubank just isn't prepared for Saunders and that he could be sorely outmatched here.

You have made fair points what I would say on point 1 is that there is a possibility that Eubank could be British common wealth and European champion tonight in 19 fights. This is also the final eliminator for the who workd title.

But let's face it frampton is an exceptional talent.

Also, to be fair, I think it would be a fair assumption to say that super-bantamweight is an easier division than middleweight to achieve those accomplishments which in turn admittedly is a compliment to Saunders.

[Brian Moore]

Saunders, easy nights work. Still don't understand the hype around Eubank...

You'll understand at about half past nine, youth. My name is Brian Moore.

[expe]

Just believe he'll do it. The case could be argued for that in regards to Catterall beating Stalker aswell.

Catterall had looked good as a pro and Stalker had looked pretty poor. Saunders has beaten a number of good fighters, Eubank Jr's beaten bums and I'm yet to be impressed by him, I don't consider knocking over Latvians impressive, that's what they're brought over for.

Some of them were decent that Saunders has beaten some were pretty average IMO. Fletcher is chinny as hell and the only fighter of any sort of significance that he beat was bursak and he's not great either. Blandamura had never beaten anyone bar some obscure Austrian that nobody has ever heard of and then you have O'sullivan who is a solid fighter but nothing too great and then you have Ryder who is the best win on his record id say. We dont really know how good Ryder is either in truth aside from beat O'Kane whose looked awful pretty much every time ive seen him. I cant argue with the competition Eubank has beaten upto now as it has been poor but personally i've looked at some of the attributes he possesses and thus come to the conclusion i have. Obviously beating Latvians in style by itself doesnt mean anything.

Fletcher's been down against Saunders and Jacobs, he isn't chinny by any stretch of it. Bursak was European champion, went to France to win it, he's not world class but he's still a good, European level fighter. Blandamura had beaten a couple of unbeaten kids, one wasn't up to much, the other was Italian champion at Super Middle, then he went to Germany and got the decision against Nader, who's no puncher but he's a decent fighter, certainly not a nobody as you're trying to make out and Blandamura himself was a good fighter, Italian and EU champion, possibly not quite European level, but somewhere on the fringes of it. O'Sullivan's another good fighter, look at what he did to Fitzgerald, dropped his hands to his knees, stood in front of him, took him to pieces and flattened him with one punch inside a round, he was fighting like he was Naz or something, but he couldn't do with anything with Saunders, struggled to get near him. Ryder's a decent operator, certainly domestic level at the very least and Saunders beat him. Chuck in Blackwell, who you missed off and had a great shout for beating Bursak, Pryce and Hall and you've got 7 fights and 70 rounds against quality opposition and a lot of experience, on top of Saunders' amateur careeer and his earlier fights.

I just don't see what Eubank Jr does well enough to beat Saunders, he throws some big punches, but they're badly telegraphed, that aside he has zero workrate, poor footwork, little thought for the punches coming back, makes a load of basic mistakes and in the sparring session with Tariq Quaddus struggled with a very average southpaw jab. For every story of him holding his own in sparring with the likes of Froch, which was overblown IMO based on the stage each was at in camp and Froch being a pretty average spar, there's another of him being outboxed and having trouble.

[lefty]

Fletcher's been down against Saunders and Jacobs, he isn't chinny by any stretch of it. Bursak was European champion, went to France to win it, he's not world class but he's still a good, European level fighter. Blandamura had beaten a couple of unbeaten kids, one wasn't up to much, the other was Italian champion at Super Middle, then he went to Germany and got the decision against Nader, who's no puncher but he's a decent fighter, certainly not a nobody as you're trying to make out and Blandamura himself was a good fighter, Italian and EU champion, possibly not quite European level, but somewhere on the fringes of it. O'Sullivan's another good fighter, look at what he did to Fitzgerald, dropped his hands to his knees, stood in front of him, took him to pieces and flattened him with one punch inside a round, he was fighting like he was Naz or something, but he couldn't do with anything with Saunders, struggled to get near him. Ryder's a decent operator, certainly domestic level at the very least and Saunders beat him. Chuck in Blackwell, who you missed off and had a great shout for beating Bursak, Pryce and Hall and you've got 7 fights and 70 rounds against quality opposition and a lot of experience, on top of Saunders' amateur careeer and his earlier fights.

I just don't see what Eubank Jr does well enough to beat Saunders, he throws some big punches, but they're badly telegraphed, that aside he has zero workrate, poor footwork, little thought for the punches coming back, makes a load of basic mistakes and in the sparring session with Tariq Quaddus struggled with a very average southpaw jab. For every story of him holding his own in sparring with the likes of Froch, which was overblown IMO based on the stage each was at in camp and Froch being a pretty average spar, there's another of him being outboxed and having trouble.

Adam Booth has said aswell though that Eubank is the real deal based on his spars with Groves and he sparred Haye aswell by all accounts.

[palooka]

Saunders, easy nights work. Still don't understand the hype around Eubank...

You'll understand at about half past nine, youth. My name is Brian Moore.

That's better

[Old Jack J]

Its a great fight.

BJS has shown how good and durable he is. We know what he brings.

Eubank jr is unknown. He has done alright against average opponents but he has been talked about by some good fighters and trainers who say the kid is very good.

Suppose the only question is whether eubank jr can transform his sparring into the ring itself. If he can then we have a really really good match up.

[Broomhall]

expe is right about the conversion rate of ABA winners to world champions, but we've only had, what, four world champions in the last 50 years? Lennox: Canadian amateur. Haye (cruiser): No ABA. Joe: ABA winner; and Conteh: ABA winner.

What about Minter, Hope, Stracey, Honeyghan, Buchanan, Marsh-then loads of others like Pyatt, Akinwande, Mcmillan, Winstone, Mckenzie, Magri, Hodkinson, Watt, Turpin, Mills, Woodhall,Benn, Reid and Bruno-all ABA champs I think. I cant think of a top British fighter who hasnt had a top amateur career apart from-Jonny Nelson, maybe Andries-not sure about Clinton Woods

[CiganoBoxer]

Well if adam booth declares it

[brilo33]

Saunders points really looking forward to this