BoxRec

Brut....

the saddest individual on the internet?

Brut, do you cry yourself to sleep at night because people on message boards don't treat Floyd fairly?

Floyd must be so happy to have fans like you!

I think people have forgotten that boxing is entertainment. The Teddy Atlases of this world need to go the way of the dodo. People want to see entertaining fights. Therefore, entertaining fighters should get no grief for not fighting someone who is a guaranteed snoozer. I hope Lara is never on tv again or Andre Ward. I know they are talented. I know they are elite. Who cares. Why should GGG fight someone who is guaranteed to make him look bad. I hope 2015 the networks kick negative fighters to the can. That means you Ishe Smith.

Brut,

If we're going to be honest about it, who exactly in the Middleweight division does Golovkin have to fear?

Vanes just called both Golovkin and Ward out. If they don't fight him, does it constitute ducking ? I think that in most cases a fighter needs to beat somebody good at a new weight before calling the best out.

If Lara moved to 160, he'd quickly establish himself as a real contender there. The division is crap, and with Canelo moving up in weight and Floyd never really being an option for them, I don't see what rationale any of the skilled light middleweights have to not be knocking off pretenders like Taylor and Quillin any more.

Ishe Smith could win a middleweight title belt right now and be a top five fighter. Zero doubt in my mind.

zorndeslammes wrote: Ishe Smith could win a middleweight title belt right now and be a top five fighter. Zero doubt in my mind.

This is ridiculous.

Brain damaged Jermain Taylor is IBF champ. Don't tell me he can't beat Taylor.

BTW you realize Sergio Mora is seriously close to being a two division champ and middleweight titilist, right? Khomitsky is practically a top 15 middleweight. The division is a joke.

[quote=""zorndeslammes"]Brain damaged Jermain Taylor is IBF champ. Don't tell me he can't beat Taylor.[/quote]
Correct, because Soliman got injured or bought by Haymon. Somebody like Sturm, Geale or Murray would destroy Ishe. Lemieux would kill him.

zorndeslammes wrote:BTW you realize Sergio Mora is seriously close to being a two division champ and middleweight titilist, right? Khomitsky is practically a top 15 middleweight. The division is a joke.

Correct, again due to Haymon. There are better fighters, but they don't get to fight for that belt. Khomitsky is not top 15, but he would killl Ishe too.

There is a reason why good light middles are not moving up beside them hoping to land on a good money fight at LMW -- many of them know that they lack power for 160.

ikorolev wrote: Correct, because Soliman got injured or bought by Haymon. Somebody like Sturm, Geale or Murray would destroy Ishe. Lemieux would kill him.

1) Ishe Smith is a Al Haymon/Floyd Mayweather fighter.

2) Felix Sturm is among the most terminally overrated fighters of this generation, which I've said more times than I care to count. And I think he's campaigning at 168 now anyhow.

3) David Lemieux got beat by Joachim Alcine. Legit beat.

zorndeslammes wrote: Correct, again due to Haymon.

Al Haymon has nothing to do with why Marco Antonio Rubio is still a relevant middleweight.

There are better fighters, but they don't get to fight for that belt.

What legitimate middleweight contenders haven't fought for a belt? I feel like half the top ten fought Felix Sturm and got a bum decision, come to think of it. Then they performed badly elsewhere.

Khomitsky is not top 15, but he would killl Ishe too.

Khomitsky is a 40 year old journeyman who nearly beat Martin Murray and drew 3 fights later in a 6 rounder. Ishe Smith would 120-108 him.

There is a reason why good light middles are not moving up beside them hoping to land on a good money fight at LMW -- many of them know that they lack power for 160.

And what, feat the overwheming power of Sam Soliman? Andy Lee possesses a middleweight world title. But keep telling me about how deep it is and how everyone below 160 is secretly afraid of monsters like him.

This summarizes your way of proving things

zorndeslammes wrote: 2) Felix Sturm is among the most terminally overrated fighters of this generation, which I've said more times than I care to count.

I am too lazy to argue with a person whose main argument is "I've said".

ikorolev wrote:This summarizes your way of proving things

zorndeslammes wrote: 2) Felix Sturm is among the most terminally overrated fighters of this generation, which I've said more times than I care to count.

I am too lazy to argue with a person whose main argument is "I've said".

And if I don't say that, then I'm a strawman who only reads boxrec records. I tried to pump up the middleweight division here. I questioned Golovkin's level of opposition and whether or not he'd be as effective stepping it up. Somewhere along the line, I realized these guys are trash and there's no reason whatsoever to believe that someone like Ishe Smith couldn't win fights against "legit middleweights" when a bunch (most?) of the guys you've named as potential murderers of Ishe have losses to over the hill journeymen junior middleweights. Golovkin is the only guy of real world class proven quality at 160 who isn't just a blown up welterweight. Everyone else probably can't win more than 3 rounds against Vanes.

So if it is so easy, why don't Vanes, Ishe and others moving up ?

The 40-year old journeyman, Khomitsky, will walk through feather-fisted Ishe. Vanes is a different story, but I doubt that he will beat somebody like Geale or Lemieux.

MW is weak now, but it wasn't long ago that it was solid with a lot of B level fighters and a couple of A level(Martinez and Golovkin). Now, most of the B level guys have severely faded, and Geale looks like he'll probably remain the only one of that group who can still perform at a high level. Murray hasn't really been impressive, and Macklin is pretty much finished. There's a new group upcoming, Khytrov and Murata, a few of the more interesting who will be making waves soon. MW is in a short lull, but there's still Geale, Lemieux, Quillin, Jacobs, Lee, Ndam etc, and oh yeah, that Golovkin guy. I can only imagine Canelo will be moving up soon, which will put more of a spotlight there as well. No idea what's happening with the Cotto negotiations, but MW is at an interesting transition. SMW and LMW both seem less interesting right now and in the future, and they're not particularly deep divisions either. SMW is the deepest of the three but it's filled with a lot of fights that aren't going to happen - Froch isn't fighting Ward again nor Dirrell or Degale, Ward isn't fighting Dirrell, Groves is overrated as hell, Chavez Jr... eh, lots of names but not that inspiring really.

A bunch of butthurt people here when all I did was ASK "is he ducking" and listen to all the crybaby insults.

You all are a bunch of little women.

So if it is so easy, why don't Vanes, Ishe and others moving up ?

Because Floyd Mayweather, Manny Pacquiao, and Miguel Cotto weren't at middleweight and were willing to take fights at 154. Ishe Smith won a light welterweight title; why should he have rushed up to middleweight? Meanwhile, Gabriel Rosado did move to 160 as a total middle of the road light middleweight journeyman and ended up on HBO and Showtime in high profile fights what, 4 times fighting for major or minor belts?

The 40-year old journeyman, Khomitsky, will walk through feather-fisted Ishe.

No one has walked through Ishe. Danny Jacobs scraped by to beat him. But yeah, Khomitsky will destroy him.

Vanes is a different story, but I doubt that he will beat somebody like Geale or Lemieux.

He would dance all night on both, especially Lemieux. I can't believe people are stan'ing for Lemieux. He's middleweight Rocky Juarez. What next, is the Tavoris Cloud bandwagon going to get moving again?

It's ok, Brut.. it only took a few posts for nearly everyone on the site to recognize your new username. Your stupidity is that potent.

Blodhemn wrote:MW is weak now, but it wasn't long ago that it was solid with a lot of B level fighters and a couple of A level(Martinez and Golovkin). Now, most of the B level guys have severely faded, and Geale looks like he'll probably remain the only one of that group who can still perform at a high level. Murray hasn't really been impressive, and Macklin is pretty much finished. There's a new group upcoming, Khytrov and Murata, a few of the more interesting who will be making waves soon. MW is in a short lull, but there's still Geale, Lemieux, Quillin, Jacobs, Lee, Ndam etc, and oh yeah, that Golovkin guy. I can only imagine Canelo will be moving up soon, which will put more of a spotlight there as well. No idea what's happening with the Cotto negotiations, but MW is at an interesting transition. SMW and LMW both seem less interesting right now and in the future, and they're not particularly deep divisions either. SMW is the deepest of the three but it's filled with a lot of fights that aren't going to happen - Froch isn't fighting Ward again nor Dirrell or Degale, Ward isn't fighting Dirrell, Groves is overrated as hell, Chavez Jr... eh, lots of names but not that inspiring really.

There are some prospects at middleweight - Murata looks like a beast. But then, he's 6 fights into this pro career and hasn't fought any of the 800 established workhorses in the division. Here's part of the issue - the future of the Middleweight division in 2015 looks a whole lot like the future of the Middleweight Division in 2009. Quillin turned pro 9 1/2 years ago and he's still a sort of "undefeated prospect" out there. Then I see Lee, Lemieux, Geale, Jacobs...didn't they all flunk out 3 years ago from serious contention? Think how lousy 160 must be if they're all back.

Blodhemn wrote:It's ok, Brut.. it only took a few posts for nearly everyone on the site to recognize your new username. Your stupidity is that potent.

Your racial hatred and bigotry is foolish.

zorndeslammes wrote: There are some prospects at middleweight - Murata looks like a beast. But then, he's 6 fights into this pro career and hasn't fought any of the 800 established workhorses in the division. Here's part of the issue - the future of the Middleweight division in 2015 looks a whole lot like the future of the Middleweight Division in 2009. Quillin turned pro 9 1/2 years ago and he's still a sort of "undefeated prospect" out there. Then I see Lee, Lemieux, Geale, Jacobs...didn't they all flunk out 3 years ago from serious contention? Think how lousy 160 must be if they're all back.

I don't know what to tell you. It's not a great division, but look around and you'll be hard pressed to find any great division where the best are fighting the best. 2014 was a pretty awful year with literally only a few matchups that truly mattered.

KBB wrote:Your racial hatred and bigotry is foolish.

Your participation of this forum has been nothing short of mind numbing stupidity of the most brain dead order.

Blodhemn wrote:

zorndeslammes wrote:Your participation of this forum has been nothing short of mind numbing stupidity of the most brain dead order.

And your bigotry and racial hatred has been total foolery of the highest order.

He aint ducking no one. GGG is the best in the biz.