BoxRec

Tuan_Jim wrote:The WBA shot did go to the number 1 contender - John Ruiz. The IBF shot did go to the number 1 contender - Chris Byrd.

Keep embarrassing yourself, imbecile.

stevedoc wrote:I like evander great fighter my only gripe is while he was at his surposed peak after he beat Douglas he took two years off fighting the acient foreman and Holmes with cruiser weight cooper in between

Heartbreak_Kid79 wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:The WBA shot did go to the number 1 contender - John Ruiz. The IBF shot did go to the number 1 contender - Chris Byrd.

Keep embarrassing yourself, imbecile.

And evander wasn't the mandatory! That's exactly my point!
He's gone in on name value.

In this thread I haven't questioned in his ability. It's his luck of being in the right place at the right time, without having to beat 3 or 4 top contenders on the way up again.
He kept getting a free pass to a title shot or an eliminator on the back of bad form

Keep trolling too I love it! #trolls hide behind PC screens

drunkenpiper36 wrote:

stevedoc wrote:I like evander great fighter my only gripe is while he was at his surposed peak after he beat Douglas he took two years off fighting the acient foreman and Holmes with cruiser weight cooper in between

I think Foreman was a reasonable first defense. Remember Tyson and Ruddock were the top two and they were locked into fighting each other. Tyson and Holy was scheduled to come off but got canceled for obvious reasons, hence the Bert Cooper replacement. The younger crop of prospects ie, Bowe, Lewis, Mercer, Morrison, etc, weren't ready yet.

Tuan_Jim wrote:
If that's your point, then your constantly shifting point is still nonsensical. But congratulations on finally arriving at your point, after five edits of your post.

In your previous post your complaint was that the August 00 shot and the December 02 shot didn't go to the mandatories ("why not give it to the #1 contender?") . Now we have established that they did go to the mandatories, Ruiz and Byrd, it turns out that your point is that it shouldn't have been Evander Holyfield who boxed them - despite the fact that you have failed to provide one single plausible, available challenger that was better than Evander Holyfield. Not one. Do not recycle that list of names you used last time because it has already been explained clearly to you why each one wasn't available.

Any man with an ounce of maturity would have thrown his hands up long ago and said, 'fair enough guys, I was uninformed, I take it back'. Instead you've had to keep shifting your argument from one untenable stance to the next, each time revealing even greater levels of ignorance to both the period we're discussing and boxing in general. No surprise a man who likes wrestling and hashtags, and accusing people of having a "gay crush" on a fighter, is found to be lacking in maturity.

Tuan_Jim wrote:

drunkenpiper36 wrote:

stevedoc wrote:I like evander great fighter my only gripe is while he was at his surposed peak after he beat Douglas he took two years off fighting the acient foreman and Holmes with cruiser weight cooper in between

I think Foreman was a reasonable first defense. Remember Tyson and Ruddock were the top two and they were locked into fighting each other. Tyson and Holy was scheduled to come off but got canceled for obvious reasons, hence the Bert Cooper replacement. The younger crop of prospects ie, Bowe, Lewis, Mercer, Morrison, etc, weren't ready yet.

And Larry Holmes whipped Ray Mercer, which trumps any result Bowe, Lewis or Moorer had at that time. Foreman, Holmes and Bowe were fine choices of opponent. Cooper, as you say, was a 7-day sub for Damiani who was a sub for Mike Tyson. Holyfield was ducking nobody.

Tuan_Jim wrote:

drunkenpiper36 wrote:

stevedoc wrote:I like evander great fighter my only gripe is while he was at his surposed peak after he beat Douglas he took two years off fighting the acient foreman and Holmes with cruiser weight cooper in between

I think Foreman was a reasonable first defense. Remember Tyson and Ruddock were the top two and they were locked into fighting each other. Tyson and Holy was scheduled to come off but got canceled for obvious reasons, hence the Bert Cooper replacement. The younger crop of prospects ie, Bowe, Lewis, Mercer, Morrison, etc, weren't ready yet.

And Larry Holmes whipped Ray Mercer, which trumps any result Bowe, Lewis or Moorer had at that time. Foreman, Holmes and Bowe were fine choices of opponent. Cooper, as you say, was a 7-day sub for Damiani who was a sub for Mike Tyson. Holyfield was ducking nobody.

stevedoc wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:

stevedoc wrote:I like evander great fighter my only gripe is while he was at his surposed peak after he beat Douglas he took two years off fighting the acient foreman and Holmes with cruiser weight cooper in between

I think Foreman was a reasonable first defense. Remember Tyson and Ruddock were the top two and they were locked into fighting each other. Tyson and Holy was scheduled to come off but got canceled for obvious reasons, hence the Bert Cooper replacement. The younger crop of prospects ie, Bowe, Lewis, Mercer, Morrison, etc, weren't ready yet.

And Larry Holmes whipped Ray Mercer, which trumps any result Bowe, Lewis or Moorer had at that time. Foreman, Holmes and Bowe were fine choices of opponent. Cooper, as you say, was a 7-day sub for Damiani who was a sub for Mike Tyson. Holyfield was ducking nobody.

Holyfield told me himself he took the foreman fight because of the money the same with Holmes , I was a little surprised myself but he said it was as simple as he would fight whoever paid the most

Tuan_Jim wrote:

drunkenpiper36 wrote:

stevedoc wrote:I like evander great fighter my only gripe is while he was at his surposed peak after he beat Douglas he took two years off fighting the acient foreman and Holmes with cruiser weight cooper in between

I think Foreman was a reasonable first defense. Remember Tyson and Ruddock were the top two and they were locked into fighting each other. Tyson and Holy was scheduled to come off but got canceled for obvious reasons, hence the Bert Cooper replacement. The younger crop of prospects ie, Bowe, Lewis, Mercer, Morrison, etc, weren't ready yet.

And Larry Holmes whipped Ray Mercer, which trumps any result Bowe, Lewis or Moorer had at that time. Foreman, Holmes and Bowe were fine choices of opponent. Cooper, as you say, was a 7-day sub for Damiani who was a sub for Mike Tyson. Holyfield was ducking nobody.

klompton wrote:I disagree. I had Holyfield winning the second Lewis match. The first one was attrocious. Neither guy tried and it was obvious to me that they were setting up a lucrative rematch. That fight was pre-arranged to inconclusive. Both guys were roided up to their eyeballs too.

Tuan_Jim wrote:Beat Riddick Bowe, beat up Mike Tyson twice, beat Lennox Lewis in the rematch (in my opinion and in the opinion of a significant number of media print). Beat up Ray Mercer, hammered Michael Moorer, beat Foreman and wiped out Douglas.

The finest collection of scalps in all of the 1990s, absolutely a great record, though Holyfield like all popular heavyweight champions has his detractors.

Heartbreak_Kid79 wrote:He has a good record, but one thing... the Lewis rematch was correctly awarded to Lewis.
Granted it was closer than their first fight.... bit it seems since 1999 there had been a swerve of opinion by Lewis detractors. Holyfield was slightly edged out.

Evander is the best connected HW I can think of... he had 7 title shots in his HW career (4 of which he won) but thats still astonishing. Even after a loss he landed a few title shots the very next fight. (I can understand this if there is a rematch clause... but after the Lewis loss, he was granted an immediate WBA shot with Ruiz, after losing to Inbragimov he is suddenly (and unfairly) plucked for a title shot at Valuev... with no warm up matches to work his way back up the ladder?

When Lewis lost the WBC title in 1994 he was frozen out of the title picture for 3 years.... and worked his way up the ladder. Evander was often placed in immediate title shots, or a title eliminator the very next fight!
I'm not saying here that Evander wasn't a great fighter... but he was often picked for the big shot fights, where many other contenders had to play the waiting game. I guess his name value and popularity made the PPVs more appealing for the TV stations.

Obviously post 2001 (last time he held a title) Evander has been regarded as a guy who hung on way too long.
Depends on whether this tarnishes his legacy or not?
People try to gloss over his later years fighting past his prime... yet Roy Jones legacy seems heavily tarnished for doing the same thing.

dempseyfire wrote:IMO a great record; his wins over Holmes and Foreman don't get the credit they deserve; he defeated the best versions of their comeback selves (IMO Foreman actually looked much better vs Evander than when he won the title vs Moorer-faster and more active). Even though the Tyson victories have lost luster over time. the rest of his record is still excellent. Better than Lennox's.

klompton wrote:I disagree. I had Holyfield winning the second Lewis match. The first one was attrocious. Neither guy tried and it was obvious to me that they were setting up a lucrative rematch. That fight was pre-arranged to inconclusive. Both guys were roided up to their eyeballs too.

Klee Gluckman wrote:I think Holyfield has one of the most interesting resumes of all time very few fighters that he didn't fight. Held his own in a tough error, beat greats in Tyson, Bowe. Seemed to land the most interesting fights. Evander more than others seemed to be able to make the matches, we never saw Tyson v Bowe, Lewis v Bowe or Tyson v Lewis when it would have meant something.

Another thing, Wlad wouldn't have had this amazing long run if he had a nineties Holyfield running around the division. No way.

If Wlad had to deal with the likes of Foreman, Bowe, Lewis, Tyson, he would be a blip on the radar. Wlad can count himself lucky he never had to fight Lewis or his own brother, your perception of him would be different. I honestly thing, Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis, all beat Wlad.

Holyfield was a great fighter and gave us great fights.