BoxRec

crusader wrote:

Chepppaaa wrote:

crusader wrote:It seems to me like today skepticism and reasonable criticism are often conflated with hating.

I was impressed by how he boxed in a disciplined manner for 12 rounds, but beating Stiverne--a good fighter but nonetheless an underdog whose best wins were a come from behind victory over Ray Austin and the pair of wins over Arreola--isn't enough for me to be confident that he'll ever rule the division. I think he's top 5 for sure though, and I'm looking forward to seeing him fight more good opponents of various styles and sizes.

sorry, but that stupid. if there was a ton of guys like tyson, holyfield or bowe today, than i also would truly be skeptical of wilder would rule the division as clear cut #1.

but as of todays heavyweight reality, there is little doubt that he is the future. him or jushua. top 5 is total bullcrap.

povetkin couldnt ko a cruiserweight and was almost losing, some say lost to a guy like huck, a guy wilder would in 2 rounds
stiverne was rated 4 at boxrec and was in most everybodys top 4 and he won like 2 rounds and basicly got chredded
glazkov, a guy who got a SD against scott
fat solis
jennings, who is flatfooted and by far not as powerful or athletic as wilder.....
slow, limited, unathletic pulev......

there is wlad, fury, wilder. wlad, i dont list him even as a boxer, because he is a wrestler and should be dq in every fight. fury is totaly overrated, just happens to be lucky he is tall. but against somebody close as tall as him and much more athletic he wont have a chance.

This showing isn't enough for me to be convinced that he will consistently impress against and beat top fighters to an extent that can be considered ruling the division. In the first place, performances fluctuate for better or worse based on many factors, and it tends to be in the long-run when equilibrium is found. I'm thus very reluctant to make such strong claims about a fighter when they've beaten a grand total of one top ten opponent, and even tonight you could see that Wilder wasn't as potent as he was against his previous foes; he has a 97 percent KO ratio overall, but a 0 percent KO ratio against top ten opponents.

Second, and I mentioned this several times before the fight, but I think Stiverne was significantly overrated. Despite much of the talk of Wilder's weak resume, Stiverne's was largely filled with mediocre opponents, he lost to one of them and drew with another, and his two most notable victims are Austin and Arreola, both of whom were ahead when they were stopped. To me Wilder beating Stiverne as he did tonight was not much more impressive than Fury recently shutting out and stopping Chisora, a fighter with a deeper resume and comparable ability to Stiverne in my opinion.

Third, Stiverne is undersized for a HW and I think it's unlikely that the style Wilder used tonight would work as effectively against people closer to his height, which includes fighters like Wlad, Fury, Joshua, and Pulev. I also believe that Povetkin, who is roughly Stiverne's size, has more tools to beat Wilder than Stiverne does, not to mention that to rule a division one must be consistent enough that they avoid significant upsets that aren't seen coming, such as those Wlad and Stiverne himself incurred. Wilder has yet to show his dominance against such a range of top opponents and that he'll consistently turn away lower rated but arguably dangerous foes such as Wach and Price.

I am not doubting that Wilder is a good fighter who is generally fun to watch and adding excitement to the HW scene, but at this point there isn't enough evidence for me to be confident that he ever rules the division. I think there are several fighters in the division who have decent chances of beating him and more good fighters who are not currently on my radar may soon emerge. I think it's reasonable to favor Wilder over almost everyone in the division as you do, but he can hardly be considered an inevitable ruler until he consistently shows his dominance against the best HWs in the world. Wlad has done this for years, yet some people think a decision over Bermane Stiverne outweighs all that.

Badhusker wrote:

Blodhemn wrote:World champion? Stiverne was gifted a vacant belt against a guy he previously beat.

I get your point, but it's not Stiverne's fault he beat who they said he had to beat to get the title. Its not like he avoided anyone to get there. Wasn't he in line to fight Vitali for a year or two? My point is, I was just saying he was the world champ, and is definitely better than just an average fighter. Whether he was worthy of the title or not is an opinion. There are vacant titles all the time that are "gifted" to undeserving guys I guess.

He should've gotten a shot at Vitali if Vitali cared less about the situation in Ukraine, and everybody knows how that'd turn out. Stiverne would be called an undeserving bum after getting pummeled. He's very average and got rated solely from beating Arreola.

Syntax Error wrote:And the prize for the most ridiculous thread ever started goes too................................................!

Whoever coined the word 'hater' should be doing 45 to life, if they're not dead already: they sure have a lot to answer for!

crusader wrote:Cheppa-The only HWs I rank above him now are 6'6" Wlad, 6'9" Fury, and 6'2" Povetkin, the latter of whom I believe is better than Stiverne.

He should've gotten a shot at Vitali if Vitali cared less about the situation in Ukraine, and everybody knows how that'd turn out. Stiverne would be called an undeserving bum after getting pummeled. He's very average and got rated solely from beating Arreola.

Yes, I doubt that there would be much praise for either Klitschko were they to decision Stiverne in a bout that many had 9-3/8-4. I think there would be ample talk of Stiverne being overweight though.

diddy wrote:He's a heavyweight and black and american so he can't be any good. Right, idiots?

Friggin thick headed Europeans.

It really chaps their asses that a black american will rule the division when Wlad retires.

Cent0089 wrote:

diddy wrote:He's a heavyweight and black and american so he can't be any good. Right, idiots?

Friggin thick headed Europeans.

It really chaps their asses that a black american will rule the division when Wlad retires.

It is similar how black americans hates Wladimir Klitschko

Butterbean wrote:

diddy wrote:He's a heavyweight and black and american so he can't be any good. Right, idiots?

Friggin thick headed Europeans.

It really chaps their asses that a black american will rule the division when Wlad retires.

Man in the mirror...
Idiot. Why on earth do you have the idea that europeans, and especially european boxing fans has anything against black fighters ?
You have issues with your self, your selfesteam and your background. Get help, but somewhere else please.

diddy wrote:He's a heavyweight and black and american so he can't be any good. Right, idiots?

Friggin thick headed Europeans.

It really chaps their asses that a black american will rule the division when Wlad retires.

diddy wrote:

Cent0089 wrote:

diddy wrote:He's a heavyweight and black and american so he can't be any good. Right, idiots?

Friggin thick headed Europeans.

It really chaps their asses that a black american will rule the division when Wlad retires.

It is similar how black americans hates Wladimir Klitschko

I'm white. Wlad is the man. I think he could hang in any era.

That said if you don't think a lot of the Wilder backlash from euros is divided on racial and country lines you are kidding yourself. Many euros refused to give him any credit when he was wiping dudes out. Refusing to recognize his obvious skills. Bottom line is boxing is like "the baby" to many foreignors. Just like soccer. A rare sport they can hold somewhat over the head of Americans and say "see you don't have all the best athletes". When an American reigns over the most prestigious division in the sport it hurts their soul. You know it's true you just cant admit it. And wont admit it.

diddy wrote:BFF,

Read first post again. I said when Wlad retires.

Baby Face Finster wrote:

diddy wrote:BFF,

Read first post again. I said when Wlad retires.

I disagree with you. I don't think Wilder will hold onto his belt too long much less reign over the division once Wlad retires. Time will tell.

diddy wrote:He's a heavyweight and black and american so he can't be any good. Right, idiots?

Friggin thick headed Europeans.

It really chaps their asses that a black american will rule the division when Wlad retires.

Badhusker wrote:

sendo wrote:

diddy wrote:He's a heavyweight and black and american so he can't be any good. Right, idiots?

Friggin thick headed Europeans.

It really chaps their asses that a black american will rule the division when Wlad retires.

You are hilarious, all that s**t talking about how UK fighters overrate their fighters, then come out with this absolute guff about Wilder

Stiverne was an average fighter who fought a poor fight, yet Wilder still couldn't put him away.

Stiverne is just an average fighter now? Whatever. I re-watched Stiverne's only other loss, and it was a very controversial stoppage. There are no average fighters that become World Champions. At least give Stiverne props for having a world champion chin.
Wilder gets no credit because he couldn't put Stiverne away?

davie wrote:

diddy wrote:He's a heavyweight and black and american so he can't be any good. Right, idiots?

Friggin thick headed Europeans.

It really chaps their asses that a black american will rule the division when Wlad retires.

Sorry mate, I just can't help it.
I think it must have something to do with the fact that there are no black people in Europe that makes our entire continent such intolerant racists.

We really should take a lead from America, they have such a good reputation for treating their black people with respect and fairness.

How did you manage to eradicate racism in your land???

diddy wrote:

davie wrote:

diddy wrote:He's a heavyweight and black and american so he can't be any good. Right, idiots?

Friggin thick headed Europeans.

It really chaps their asses that a black american will rule the division when Wlad retires.

Sorry mate, I just can't help it.
I think it must have something to do with the fact that there are no black people in Europe that makes our entire continent such intolerant racists.

We really should take a lead from America, they have such a good reputation for treating their black people with respect and fairness.

How did you manage to eradicate racism in your land???

The president of the United States...is a black man. Have you seen his policies? Apparently not. Apparently it is still 1940 in America according to you. Who knew?