BoxRec

mickey1975 wrote:There's a bit of it around Leeds/West Yorkshire now, too. Lee Murtagh is involved.

London, Liverpool, Leeds, Scotland

if this luca di caro and his cronies throw enough pins in the dartboard then they are hoping one will stick. after working for the wbf, then wbu, now hes in to this malta boxing and unlicensed scene. anything to make a quick buck off the back of boxing.

daviddee wrote:I know whos running it but it's down to the people involved to come out and say who they are. I like the idea. A lot of boxers in Scotland are treated badly in my eyes. This might be a way of pushing boxing forward. Got to agree with Billy this may help fighters fight both codes so they can make a living properly. We will see where it goes. Hard road ahead of them

ok how is scottish fighters fighting on these malta cards going to help scottish fighters win or get a shot at the lonsdale? your brother is fighter, would you prefer to see him lift some malta international belt or a get a shot and win lonsdale?

The big 2 promotors seem to be taking a hiatus from our country at the moment, having MBA sanctioning shows up here aint goingt bring them back or make a difference to that.

billy nelson wrote:

Alba wrote:we dont need them, we have a healthy circuit of shows over the next few months.

Daniel were did you hear this ? Who was saying that they will take over ? what scottish based boxers are going to be signing with a Malta based promotor? Your being very vague and need more details ...

Now if you look on the Malta website it does have a scottish boxers father down as representive, but as far as i know (and i could be wrong) he has no formal boxing background other than his laddie being a fighter and he is more involved with Kick Boxing .

I know the only promoter so far in Scotland, and I believe boxers/ kick boxers will be interested as they are allowed to do both codes much like the majority of sanctioning bodies in Europe
I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to do it some fighters simply can't get fights so this may be another option for them

A good point billy about kickboxers and boxers on shows together.

but between the 4 reguler promotors up here who put show on reguarly (Saltire,Alex Morrison, Prospect and Granite City) a decent fighter wouldent get signed for either them ? I think the only reason wouldent want to fight for one of the BBBOC licensed promotors would be because they cant get a license on medical grounds were as the MBC would be willing to offer them one.

Competition is healthy, but its not like we have a manopoly up here with only one promotor.

if you had a fighter who wanted to turn over with you, and had the choice between both BBBOC and MBC what would you pick ?

Alba wrote:

daviddee wrote:I know whos running it but it's down to the people involved to come out and say who they are. I like the idea. A lot of boxers in Scotland are treated badly in my eyes. This might be a way of pushing boxing forward. Got to agree with Billy this may help fighters fight both codes so they can make a living properly. We will see where it goes. Hard road ahead of them

ok how is scottish fighters fighting on these malta cards going to help scottish fighters win or get a shot at the lonsdale? your brother is fighter, would you prefer to see him lift some malta international belt or a get a shot and win lonsdale?

The big 2 promotors seem to be taking a hiatus from our country at the moment, having MBA sanctioning shows up here aint goingt bring them back or make a difference to that.

I think it's more a cost thing. It's quite expensive to use the BBofBC tends to be a fair bit cheaper elsewhere. This will free up money to put on more shows. I don't care what the title fights are. I would much rather see a 50/50 for no title that a 90/10 for a stupid British Masters. If you look at the boxing scene Out of 4 times Ronnie had boxed in England he has 2 draws and 2 defeats. None of these fights were clear cut defeats. Troy James was the closest fight IMO. It could of gone either way. The other fights are politics and ridiculous at that. He's not getting a fair crack of the whip.

I think it's all about making money

The big/only question for me is WHY would someone want to set up an organisation in Scotland to administer 'professional boxing' when there already is such an organisation. The WBC etc emerged when certain promoters wouldn't let legitimate contenders fight for the title. Since then these world organisations are simply money making concerns for a few office bearers and ringside officials who expend on a good trip away. Is there anyone who believes that the WBC, WBO, WBA, IBF and their intercontinental and super titles are a good thing?
The Malta Boxing Boards international, super , chicken weight champion of Hamilton and District - come on give us a break, pleeeese!

Alba wrote:

billy nelson wrote:

Alba wrote:we dont need them, we have a healthy circuit of shows over the next few months.

Daniel were did you hear this ? Who was saying that they will take over ? what scottish based boxers are going to be signing with a Malta based promotor? Your being very vague and need more details ...

Now if you look on the Malta website it does have a scottish boxers father down as representive, but as far as i know (and i could be wrong) he has no formal boxing background other than his laddie being a fighter and he is more involved with Kick Boxing .

I know the only promoter so far in Scotland, and I believe boxers/ kick boxers will be interested as they are allowed to do both codes much like the majority of sanctioning bodies in Europe
I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to do it some fighters simply can't get fights so this may be another option for them

A good point billy about kickboxers and boxers on shows together.

but between the 4 reguler promotors up here who put show on reguarly (Saltire,Alex Morrison, Prospect and Granite City) a decent fighter wouldent get signed for either them ? I think the only reason wouldent want to fight for one of the BBBOC licensed promotors would be because they cant get a license on medical grounds were as the MBC would be willing to offer them one.

Competition is healthy, but its not like we have a manopoly up here with only one promotor.

if you had a fighter who wanted to turn over with you, and had the choice between both BBBOC and MBC what would you pick ?

The simple answer then is to carry on as you are, from what you say it sounds as though boxing is buzzing in Scotland

gobbles wrote:The Government (via the Department of Culture, Media and Sport) as well as UK Sport officially recognise two bodies for boxing: the British Boxing Board of Control and the Amateur Boxing Association.

The board have the same government recognition as the FA for football, the RFU for rugby and the LTA for tennis.

Exactly. Recognised is not the same as government appointed. They are all self-appointed bodies and the government's recognition only comes because of their longevity. They are not immune from European competition laws like statutory bodies are and the government could quite easily recognise another body should one come to the fore or those involved with the board, FA, RFU etc wish to form a break away.

Real regulators are bodies such as Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) for financial services. The board only "regulates" professional boxing in Britain because it says it does. And that's why it powerless against competition, whether good or bad.

Going to end up like kickboxing or unlicenced if we dont watch it.WIth 15 differnt british champions at every weight.Ask kickboxing why it is a complete non entity its because the organsiations that run it is fractured to the extreme

What sort of purses are they paying on these Malta shows ? I would imagine that most of the malta licenced boxers have either applied for a board licence and been refused for some reason or on the other hand a lot of them used to have board licences but had them withdrawn for some reason

jonp wrote:Going to end up like kickboxing or unlicenced if we dont watch it.WIth 15 differnt british champions at every weight.Ask kickboxing why it is a complete non entity its because the organsiations that run it is fractured to the extreme

Or UK MMA, where every Tom, Dick and Harry has their own sanctioning body and there's about 50 people claiming to be a champion.

jonp wrote:Going to end up like kickboxing or unlicenced if we dont watch it.WIth 15 differnt british champions at every weight.Ask kickboxing why it is a complete non entity its because the organsiations that run it is fractured to the extreme

Only if people buy it.

Can't see it being supported by TV companies, so thus always condemned to be small fry.

donal wrote:if this luca di caro and his cronies throw enough pins in the dartboard then they are hoping one will stick. after working for the wbf, then wbu, now hes in to this malta boxing and unlicensed scene. anything to make a quick buck off the back of boxing.

daviddee wrote: I don't care what the title fights are. I would much rather see a 50/50 for no title that a 90/10 for a stupid British Masters.

One of the best things about Boxrec News was, imo, the impartial & hard-nosed stance they took towards stupid fvcking shite like "British Masters" titles, "International British Masters" titles, "Silver/Gold/Platinum British Masters" titles & the like: laughed long & hard at them, & then delete any reference made to the pieces of shite.

I know Kickboxing is murder with the Belts,every body & "there dug" is a world champion,i see there point though but then on the otherhand these shows you could end up with Amateurs,Semi pro's,profesionals,boxers,MMA,Karate etc all on the same bills???

gobbles wrote:

jonp wrote:Going to end up like kickboxing or unlicenced if we dont watch it.WIth 15 differnt british champions at every weight.Ask kickboxing why it is a complete non entity its because the organsiations that run it is fractured to the extreme

Only if people buy it.

Can't see it being supported by TV companies, so thus always condemned to be small fry.

I'm sure Stephen Vaughan has TV for his shows in malta, if the product is good enough TV may buy, you never can tell

Terry Dooley wrote: The fighters quite like them, though,

& I would point out the blindingly fvcking obvious, that it's not the press's duty to pander to what the fighters like. In fact, quite the fvcking opposite, regarding any vested interest or what it likes/doesn't.

Otherwise, go into PR/advertising. More money in it, too.

Terry Dooley wrote: On the one hand, you may wring your hands over the damage fighters pick up, on the other you want minimise purses for the fighters who actually need the money the most. It doesn't add up.

& that I think the summarises the crux of it, at least for me. Yes, I'd rather boxers maybe didn't quite get so permanently fvcked up, even if this meant they had to do something horrible like, er, get a job. Especially seeing as boxers don't earn the most from this, you know that, blood-sucking leeching pudenda do & I'd bet you fifty quid the amounts the blood-suckers make on a "title" fight, proportionally speaking, dwarfs that little bit the extra the boxers might get. The boxers get thrown the scraps.

Should boxers get thrown more scraps? Of fvcking course. I'd like to pause my response to your out of left-field defensive attack to just clear that up, lest you see a chink to change the fvcking subject about it.

To be quite clear: Am I quite so inherently nasty as to deny boxers a few extra pence, on the grounds that maybe thieving pudenda might make a tiny bit less coin? Yup. Totally. Sleep like a fvkcing baby over it, as well.

Am I against being completely uncritical of one's subject matter, because that leaves one open to pandering for the vested interests of pudenda? Yes, also. Also, sleep like a baby over that one, too.

I find your brand of "pragmatism" quite hilariously flawed & frankly a bit too redolent of someone in the throes of fannish, blinded love with their subject matter, you find my attitude--which I'd stop short of describing as pragmatism, mainly 'cos using that word makes one sound like a self-important, defensive pudendum engaged in some special pleading & dog-whistle rhetoric--impenetrable.

C'est la vie, innit.

PS: The little "hand-wringing" dig, nice. Make you feel a bit well-hard, did it? I'm genuinely glad. I will note, however, that the last time we talked of this, your hard-won brand of righteous Batman-esque clear-eyed cynicism was only revealed--as in, you only opened your trap about it--well after Taylor successfully negotiated the full twelve with Soliman without his brain falling off.

I shall refrain from pointing out that since that fight, his brain has actually fallen off. 'Cos I am the soft, soppy pinko hand-wringer, remember?

PS: Whilst I'm fvcking at it, the "boxers who need the money the most" are journeymen & cannon fodder. I suggest if that's your argument you need to campaign for every four rounder to be sold as a title fight, thus maximising the amount of money for those who "need it most".

Terry Dooley wrote:Singleton’s a case in point. Sure, his Masters win wasn’t against a great name, but it helped him down the line. Next fight Vs Curtis for the English, which was a well-matched one, then the International and a decent outing in Hull next time.

Yes, I’d prefer English and British title fights over anything else. Although there are still badly matched fights for those titles, too.

As with any title, it's about what you do once you've had that platform.

I can't see a good reason for using the Masters titles when there's so many area titles vacant and inactive, if they want a title fight, fight for one of them.

Terry Dooley wrote:

expe wrote:

Terry Dooley wrote:Singleton’s a case in point. Sure, his Masters win wasn’t against a great name, but it helped him down the line. Next fight Vs Curtis for the English, which was a well-matched one, then the International and a decent outing in Hull next time.

Yes, I’d prefer English and British title fights over anything else. Although there are still badly matched fights for those titles, too.

As with any title, it's about what you do once you've had that platform.

I can't see a good reason for using the Masters titles when there's so many area titles vacant and inactive, if they want a title fight, fight for one of them.

I'd prefer Areas myself TBH, but don't discount Masters belts just because it's an easy target. Ideally, you'd go Area, English then British before CW, EBU then Intercontinental. IC belts were supposed to bridge the gap between the levels. Allowing contenders to face Top 15 fighters and get the rounds in. Across the board, the title situation is messed up, but why single out Masters? Especially, as is the case with Datsue, you don't appear to know what they're there for or that journeymen have contested them in recent years, which kind of goes against the single point he's tried to (badly) make.

If anything, we need to address the decline in the number of British title fights.

I get that they're used to help fighters sell more tickets, I just don't think that adding a plastic belt to a fight so it sells a few more tickets is a good thing. The masters belts are the worst of the lot because they're only there in order to collect sanctioning fees, the mandatory is due within 28 days so they can quickly fob it off on someone else, no one ever actually bothers to defend them. The IC titles are there to collect sanctioning fees too, but at least they give the fighter a world ranking.

Harry Matthews is currently hyping his Bronze Masters title shot up beyond beyond belief on FB. He's done more tickets than he has for years. People telling him to bring that belt home! Case closed.

Terry Dooley wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:Harry Matthews is currently hyping his Bronze Masters title shot up beyond beyond belief on FB. He's done more tickets than he has for years. People telling him to bring that belt home! Case closed.

Aye, he's fought for it once before, why not have another nibble.

I'm not saying I approve of the proliferation of titles, it's happened, is here and the Masters is a soft target. The belt has given some of the fighters mentioned a decent night's work.

He's fought for the full one a few times.

I am no fan of the Board in their current incarnation and get the feeling they are stagnant old farts mixed with suited toffs who serve their own best interests. They clearly need a sizable firework up the hole to shoot them back to reality but I remain unconvinced that the likes of the Malta Boxing Commission are the answer. I can be convinced although they probably don't give a flying sh1te what I think about the situation which is fair enough.

The likes of the MBC clearly have a way to go to achieve credibility if they are indeed sanctioning fights like Danny Williams-Frans Botha. It's fight like that that clearly indicate why we need a credible, legitimate Board to keep things respectable. At the moment the alternatives to the Board seem content to pick up the leftovers and waifs and strays and let them fight.

Harry boxed for that first! He's been on the road a lot and this title has helped him sell tickets for a (almost) home fight. He's a very fit, durable fighter so the longer fights suit him.

steve689 wrote:
The likes of the MBC clearly have a way to go to achieve credibility if they are indeed sanctioning fights like Danny Williams-Frans Botha.

They didn't sanction anything - the fight didn't happen ( even though both boxers continue to box around the world under various sanctioning bodies).

By the way, who was it that sanctioned the Freddie Flintoff bullshit ?

I've said it before. It doesn't matter whether the Board is a charitable/governmental/non-governmental organisation , basically its the committee of a sporting club.( Golf club, bowling green etc) set up for its members. If you don't want to be a member, stop paying your fees and leave. If you want to participate with the Luxembourg or Malta 'clubs' - go ahead, nobodies stopping you. But ,please don't be surprised of the BBB of C 'club' don't allow you back in!!! And, I can tell you, you can go to any court in the land and sue, but refusing you a licence does NOT restrict your right to earn money or infringe European law. It simply means that the 'club' doesn't want you as a member, and it doesn't need to give a reason why.

Scenario -- Boxer A holds a BBB of C licence. He fights on a Malta bill. There's very little the Board can do at that stage. Next December, annual renewal of licence - refused. What do you do. Write and ask for an explanation ? Here's the answer -' The Board has decided that in the interests of the company, not to renew your licence.' What do you do now ? Go to a lawyer - good, try that out!!!