BoxRec

koolkc107 wrote: And, if the ATG debate is a dumb or misinformed one, it is being engaged in by folks many levels above you or I in boxing knowledge, Diggs.

I have no problem with fans or experts wanting to speculate. It can be fun and illuminating.

That happens almost never & its never illuminating unless you are a blank slate noob fan & then its usually just giving you the Ray Robinson is the best fighter bias without them actually seeing a Ray Robinson fight lol. Now if a cat like Al Bernstein wants to talk about ATG's I'm all ears. If 99/100 boxrec'ers wanna discuss it its only gonna destroy boxing history brain cells in the readers of said thread.

Anytime you see people talking about ATG's ask them the extent of their boxing knowledge. What great fights of the past they've watched. How many Stanley Ketchel or whoever fights they've seen. How many fights of the guys who fought Ketchel or whoever fights they've seen. You'll quickly see its a debate by midgets discussing the best way to dunk a basketball.

ReggieDiggs wrote:

koolkc107 wrote: And, if the ATG debate is a dumb or misinformed one, it is being engaged in by folks many levels above you or I in boxing knowledge, Diggs.

I have no problem with fans or experts wanting to speculate. It can be fun and illuminating.

That happens almost never & its never illuminating unless you are a blank slate noob fan & then its usually just giving you the Ray Robinson is the best fighter bias without them actually seeing a Ray Robinson fight lol. Now if a cat like Al Bernstein wants to talk about ATG's I'm all ears. If 99/100 boxrec'ers wanna discuss it its only gonna destroy boxing history brain cells in the readers of said thread.

Anytime you see people talking about ATG's ask them the extent of their boxing knowledge. What great fights of the past they've watched. How many Stanley Ketchel or whoever fights they've seen. How many fights of the guys who fought Ketchel or whoever fights they've seen. You'll quickly see its a debate by midgets discussing the best way to dunk a basketball.

What I find most illuminating AND FUN is when posters get downright pompous and condescending. They start making assumptions based not on what is actually said but on what they think is meant through the filter of their own preconceptions. This while at the same time making it crystal clear that their own viewpoints have less to do with actual knowledge and almost everything to do with their own preferences and biases.

What can you say?

There is almost no one who posts in boxing forums today who actually saw Ray Robinson fight with their own eyes. And, footage of him in his actual prime is scarce at best. Lucky for me, I have an uncle who did box professionally (managed in the 50's by Al Braverman) and who, though well into his 80's, still trains fighters. So, when I say Ray Robinson- or any other fighter, old or new for that matter- I probably have something of an informed take on it, even if I never saw him fight outside a badly preserved tape.

Compubox is garbage.

They're not factual statistics, they're subjective collections of numbers. If we used their criteria, Joe Calzaghe is a better puncher than Mike Tyson.

You were clear to me the first time, Fergusq.

OP can mean "Original Post" or "Original Poster". I was using the former, and not in anyway attributing things to a personal sentiment.

But, as I have said, if there is a post placing Mayweather in the company of other acknowledged greats, someone would not have to make a huge leap to understand that comparisons are being made.

And BTW, great post and topic.

fergusg wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:The original post (OP) sites a stat that places Mayweather as "The Best of All Time".

koolkc107 wrote:But this is a thread about Mayweather where the OP has the phrase "Best of all time" in it. It is a thread speculating on where Floyd fits in boxing's pantheon.

I just want to clarify a few things… I’m only quoting statistical facts obtained from reliable sources. Any comments relating to Floyd being considered as the “Best of All Time” should only be considered as the opinions supplied by my sources.

Anyway, here are Floyd Mayweather’s CompuBox stats in comparison to today’s best fighters:

"Compubox Categorical Leaders" (December 2014)
http://compuboxonline.com/wp-content/up ... ec2014.pdf

• Plus/Minus (Total Punches) = +24 [Money regains #1 spot after landing 46% vs. Canelo, who slips to #3 after landing just 22% vs. Floyd]
• Total Connect Pct. (Jabs/Power) = 42%
• Opponents Total Conn. Pct. = 18%
• Power Punch Connect Pct. = 48% [Alvarez landed 32% vs. Floyd & 64% vs. Jose Lopez.]
• Opponents Power Punch Conn. Pct. - Lowest = 22% [Mayweather 14% better than Compubox avg. vs. better competition than all on this list but Ward.]
• Avg. Fewest Total Punches Thrown Per Round = 41 [Money doesn't waste his shots.]
• Avg. Fewest Power Punches Thrown Per Round = 23

Here are some links that explains Floyd Mayweather Jr’s CompuBox statistical standing in comparison to the universally considered all-time-greats:

"Floyd Mayweather Is the Best of All Time According to CompuBox"
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1135 ... x-at-least

"Mayweather measures up with greats"
http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/77 ... ing-greats

"Floyd Mayweather: The Greatest Of Them All?"
http://www.boxinginsider.com/columns/fl ... -them-all/

"Floyd Mayweather: Compubox supports his GOAT claim"
http://www.tbhnation.com/floyd-mayweath ... oat-claim/

"CompuBox: 30 years and (still) counting"
http://ringtv.craveonline.com/news/3813 ... l-counting

"Floyd Mayweather: The Fighter That Nobody Can Punch"
http://www.wsj.com/articles/floyd-maywe ... 73?tesla=y

Resumes Head to Head

Manny
• Pacquiao has consistently been ranked amongst the top ten pound-for-pound Ring Magazine rankings since 2003
• The Filipino legend wore the pound-for-pound number one crown from 2008 until 2011
• Has competed in 19 world title fights (if we include the lineal championship as well)
• Has gained world titles in eight weight divisions (flyweight, super-bantamweight, featherweight, super-featherweight, lightweight, light welterweight, welterweight and light middleweight)
• Manny will be vying to gain a fifth lineal world title when he faces Floyd Mayweather Jr. on the 2nd May (he won the lineal championship at the following weights: 112, 126, 130 and 140)
• Has won eleven world title belts from the big four governing bodies
• Was the Ring Magazine’s & ESPN’s fighter of the year in 2006, 2008 & 2009
• 27 of his fights have been against 20 former world champions (he won 21 of them)
• By the time of the Mayweather super-fight, Manny Pacquiao would been a professional boxer for more than twenty years
• Manny won his first world title sixteen years ago
• Pacquiao’s fourth fight against Márquez was rated as the fight of the year for 2012
• The Filipino legend was voted as the “Fighter of the decade” (2000-2009) by the Boxing Writer’s Association of America


Floyd
• Mayweather Jr. has been Ring Magazine’s pound-for-pound number one ranked fighter since 2012
• Possesses an unblemished 47-0 professional record, with 26 KO’s
• Competed in 27 world title fights (if we include the lineal championship as well)
• Has gained world titles in five weight divisions (super featherweight, lightweight, light welterweight, welterweight & light middleweight)
• Has won eleven world title belts from the big four governing bodies
• Has consistently been ranked amongst the top ten pound-for-pound Ring Magazine rankings since 1998 (he had a hiatus in 1998 due to temporary retirement)
• Was the Ring Magazine’s fighter of the year in 1998 & 2007
• 22 of his victories have come against 20 former world champions
• Floyd is looking to achieve a 15-fight winning streak against former world champions when he fights Manny Pacquiao on the 2nd May, a run which commenced a decade ago (against Arturo Gatti [25/06/2005])
• Floyd Mayweather Jr. has been a professional boxer for 18½ years
• Money May won his first world title 16½ years ago whe defeated Genaro Hernandez (a man who had competed in 15 world title bouts, had only previously been defeated by Oscar De La Hoya [in a weight class that was not his natural habitat] and who also boasted a victory against an all-time-great [Azumah Nelson])
• Ring Magazine currently rates Floyd Mayweather Jr. in 12th position of its pound-for-pound “Best-of-Modern Times” list (based on the votes of 20 boxing experts to determine the Top 20 fighters since World War II)
• Based on the aggregated totals of all fights on his resume, the average Floyd Mayweather Jr. opponent lands a mere 16% of punches thrown, this is the lowest collective figure recorded in CompuBox's 4,000-fight database (as of May 2014)
• Mayweather currently has the best plus/minus rating of any active fighter on the planet (as of September 2014), which is a measure of the variance between Floyd’s own connect rate and that of his opponents’ (in other words, a gauge of the “Hit and don't get hit” old adage)
• Based purely on the statistical numbers of CompuBox (dated 2012), Floyd Mayweather Jr. is the “Best of All Time” (they measured the punch stats of legends such as: Sugar Ray Robinson, Joe Louis, Marvin Hagler, Sugar Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran, Muhammad Ali etc.)

fergusg wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:The original post (OP) sites a stat that places Mayweather as "The Best of All Time".

koolkc107 wrote:But this is a thread about Mayweather where the OP has the phrase "Best of all time" in it. It is a thread speculating on where Floyd fits in boxing's pantheon.

I just want to clarify a few things… I’m only quoting statistical facts obtained from reliable sources. Any comments relating to Floyd being considered as the “Best of All Time” should only be considered as the opinions supplied by my sources.

Anyway, here are Floyd Mayweather’s CompuBox stats in comparison to today’s best fighters:

"Compubox Categorical Leaders" (December 2014)
http://compuboxonline.com/wp-content/up ... ec2014.pdf

• Plus/Minus (Total Punches) = +24 [Money regains #1 spot after landing 46% vs. Canelo, who slips to #3 after landing just 22% vs. Floyd]
• Total Connect Pct. (Jabs/Power) = 42%
• Opponents Total Conn. Pct. = 18%
• Power Punch Connect Pct. = 48% [Alvarez landed 32% vs. Floyd & 64% vs. Jose Lopez.]
• Opponents Power Punch Conn. Pct. - Lowest = 22% [Mayweather 14% better than Compubox avg. vs. better competition than all on this list but Ward.]
• Avg. Fewest Total Punches Thrown Per Round = 41 [Money doesn't waste his shots.]
• Avg. Fewest Power Punches Thrown Per Round = 23

Here are some links that explains Floyd Mayweather Jr’s CompuBox statistical standing in comparison to the universally considered all-time-greats:

"Floyd Mayweather Is the Best of All Time According to CompuBox"
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1135 ... x-at-least

"Mayweather measures up with greats"
http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/77 ... ing-greats

"Floyd Mayweather: The Greatest Of Them All?"
http://www.boxinginsider.com/columns/fl ... -them-all/

"Floyd Mayweather: Compubox supports his GOAT claim"
http://www.tbhnation.com/floyd-mayweath ... oat-claim/

"CompuBox: 30 years and (still) counting"
http://ringtv.craveonline.com/news/3813 ... l-counting

"Floyd Mayweather: The Fighter That Nobody Can Punch"
http://www.wsj.com/articles/floyd-maywe ... 73?tesla=y

do you know how many lineal titles does mayweather have? and on what wheights?