BoxRec

back in the day they gave them guys brandy between rounds to wake up. that stuff don't happen no more. thanks a lot Obama

Dennis wrote:Reggie - I am one of those who believes the playing field should not be tilted in someone's favor because of taking PEDs. I don't use any, rarely take any over the counter medicines or prescriptions. I did have ACL reconstruction surgery but chose to use part of my own hamstring tendons as the replacement ACL instead of using an ACL from a cadaver. My son Jordan Shimmell was on the USA boxing team and part of the USADA testing protocols for several years. He was randomly tested a bunch of times and was always clean (there is a list somewhere which shows how many times each USA athlete was tested and if there were any suspensions). He doesn't use PEDs. He knows guys his age who did in H.S. and in college. He has competed against guys in boxing who most likely used. He has been tested several times in his pro career and has always been clean. Other pro boxers at some of the shows he has fought at have tested dirty including Ortiz when he fought Kayode.

PEDs have been shown to allow athletes to train harder for a longer period of time which benefits them greatly. The blood doping including EPO allows athletes to perform at a high level for a longer period of time which benefits boxers in 10 & 12 round bouts. I believe they should be banned and there should be more testing not less. It has been reported that the Premier Boxing Champions series to be broadcast on numerous TV networks including NBC, NBCSN, CBS, CBSSN, Showtime, Spike, BET, etc. will require each boxer who competes in a PBC series bout to be subjected to rigorous, Olympic-style random drug testing by the United States Anti-Doping Agency [USADA]. I believe that is the right path to take.

I got no doubt illegal performance enhancing products improve ones abilities. I've never disputed that. You seem to have thrown the clarification others haven't about the uneven playing field "because of PEDs" that you have a problem with which is more something I can respectfully disagree with as most people have acted like boxing is a even playing field if not for "PEDs". I've stated over & over I don't believe the effects to be "superpower-ish" which is what some people seem to think or imply. I'd actually like to see more studies about how much illegal performance enhancing products actually do enhance ones ability. I believe it to be much more marginal than most here thats for sure.

For me I see unevenness all over in boxing & I'm not taking a moral stance on legal & illegal uneven fight producing options. You can't look at a card that doesn't have at least one fight that has you scratching your head that a matchmaker, a promoter & a commission have okayed a very unevenly matched fight. I don't see that much of a morality issue in letting the 18-0 guy fight the 4-17 guy vs a guy using a illegal performance enhancing product is our difference in my estimation.

Randomly do you believe the testing will ever be able to be on top of the science of illegal performance enhancing products? If yes what has you believing that?

Random PBC questions since you are Al-affiliated. Will the testing be year round? Will all the different Al-boxing channel shows be under the same testing criteria as the NBC channel where this stuff was all announced?

I think what Al is gonna find if he hasn't gotten some behind the scenes protocol when a guy gets caught, as I suspect he does, is some fights will be getting canceled & he'll be scrambling for fights last minute only to put on lesser fights that fewer people will care about & the guy who's been busted will give PBC/Boxing/Al bad press which could damage the whole PBC operation. I definitely think Al is the smartest guy in the room so this won't be stuff that hasn't been agreed to behind the scenes though, but who knows maybe he hasn't thought that part all the way thru.

Being affiliated with Al does not mean I have any inside scoop on what he has in mind for PBC. I'm willing to bet he has thought through most if not all of the issues related to the drug testing. Why do I think drug testing can work? Because some top athletes are being caught. Tarver and Ortiz are just two who have been caught. Many more are caught that don't reach the media. That deters others. If more testing took place it would catch more athletes and be an even bigger deterrence.

Rexob wrote:Skill usually prevails so doesn't matter too much in boxing?

I dont agree with that, it makes a huge difference in punch power and punch resistance alone

Dennis wrote:Why do I think drug testing can work? Because some top athletes are being caught. Tarver and Ortiz are just two who have been caught. Many more are caught that don't reach the media. That deters others. If more testing took place it would catch more athletes and be an even bigger deterrence.

Ironic you mention Antonio cuz he's working for PBC apparently in a commentator role from what I've heard. If important people in boxing really cared about PEDs & punishing PED users Antonio would be ostracized from the sport not get another commentating job after being fired from Showtime after coming up dirty. Lamont got busted to & now he's the main event of a PBC event. Thats another part of the problem of getting rid of PEDs (if you really believe all the hype). Its a limp wristed spanking level of punishment.

"Many more are caught that don't reach the media". Could you elaborate on this comment? How are guys getting caught in this way getting punished? Why isn't it announced to the media? Who's doing the testing?

ReggieDiggs wrote:Ironic you mention Antonio cuz he's working for PBC apparently in a commentator role from what I've heard. If important people in boxing really cared about PEDs & punishing PED users Antonio would be ostracized from the sport not get another commentating job after being fired from Showtime after coming up dirty. Lamont got busted to & now he's the main event of a PBC event. Thats another part of the problem of getting rid of PEDs (if you really believe all the hype). Its a limp wristed spanking level of punishment.

"Many more are caught that don't reach the media". Could you elaborate on this comment? How are guys getting caught in this way getting punished? Why isn't it announced to the media? Who's doing the testing?

that illustrates nicely what i feel too:
boxing as such is pretty openly in a
"do not really care"-stance. yes, one
has to do the lip service about clean
and sober, but that is just the official
line of talking. behind doors at least
some powerful people have a different
agenda.

i for one think rigorous testing should be
introduced and executed. for two reasons.
first, to level the playing field for those who
come up and cannot afford the good stuff.
but second and more importantly to protect
those who fight clean. this is a dangerous
contact sport and endurance plays a vital
role, especially when it comes to punch
resistance. it is simply terrible if someone
gets injured because the other guys runs
on some endurance pill.

and do not forget that the drugs get better
and better, keeping the positive effects,
reducing the negatives. so i really think
the idea that PEDs do not help in boxing
is wrong and will be even more wrong
over time.

ReggieDiggs wrote:

Dennis wrote:Why do I think drug testing can work? Because some top athletes are being caught. Tarver and Ortiz are just two who have been caught. Many more are caught that don't reach the media. That deters others. If more testing took place it would catch more athletes and be an even bigger deterrence.

Ironic you mention Antonio cuz he's working for PBC apparently in a commentator role from what I've heard. If important people in boxing really cared about PEDs & punishing PED users Antonio would be ostracized from the sport not get another commentating job after being fired from Showtime after coming up dirty. Lamont got busted to & now he's the main event of a PBC event. Thats another part of the problem of getting rid of PEDs (if you really believe all the hype). Its a limp wristed spanking level of punishment.

"Many more are caught that don't reach the media". Could you elaborate on this comment? How are guys getting caught in this way getting punished? Why isn't it announced to the media? Who's doing the testing?

Boxers are tested by commissions. In Michigan, there are a couple of bouts per show selected to be tested. Some boxers test dirty and get suspended. The media doesn't care if some 4 round boxer gets caught or a journeyman tests dirty. The same thing happens all over. Only when the big names like Mike Tyson test dirty in Michigan and get a huge fine does it get publicized by the media.

Dennis wrote: Boxers are tested by commissions. In Michigan, there are a couple of bouts per show selected to be tested. Some boxers test dirty and get suspended. The media doesn't care if some 4 round boxer gets caught or a journeyman tests dirty. The same thing happens all over. Only when the big names like Mike Tyson test dirty in Michigan and get a huge fine does it get publicized by the media.

Are a lot of 4 rounders getting caught? I mean I can understand the media not caring about the typical 4 round cat, but if its a notable guy I imagine it'd get out. Don't commissions got their meeting minutes listed somewhere where this would get noted?

Yes Reggie the info about suspensions is available if you want to look for it.

Over the last ten years, there has been a lot of discussion about growth hormone (HGH or simply GH), especially in the areas of bodybuilding, combat sports and American football.

Moreover, a few star baseball players have admitted using growth hormone, including former home run king Mark McGwire, and one could surmise many actors and actresses use it to buff-up for movie roles.

What is HGH?
Growth hormone is produced naturally in the pituitary gland and is responsible for cell growth and regeneration. Simply put, one could not build muscle mass without it.

Human growth hormone, in synthetic, injectable form, was developed in 1985 and approved by the FDA as prescription drug for medicinal purposes such as Chronic kidney insufficiency and HIV/AIDS.

So what's all of the buzz about? Everyone knows the anabolic, performance-enhancing effects of steroids. What makes HGH any different?

What has made HGH so attractive to pro athletes is it's detectably, or lack thereof. Unlike steroids, growth hormone doesn't show up in urine tests.

The average person probably has slightly under 5 nanograms per milliliter circulating in their blood. Levels of HGH peak during puberty and plummet between the ages of 21 and 26. As a result, this drug is particularly of interest to people looking to gain an edge, cosmetically.

There's no question HGH can help one build muscle and reduce fat - But what about athletic performance?

There are conflicting views on whether HGH, which is banned in Olympic competition, can make a good athlete a 'great' athlete but most indicators tell us it is, in fact, a performance enhancer.

Results from an intense, high-profile 2010 study concluded the ban of growth hormone in sports justifiable. Although the study found increases, at 'average doses,' strength, in power and endurance to be practically slim to none, there was a notable increase in explosiveness.


With the benefit of HGH, a well-conditioned could expect to shave off about half a second in a 10-second sprint over 100 meters.

That may not seem like much but that little time "divides the winner from the last place finisher," said Dr. Ken Ho, who led the study at the Garvan Institute of Medical Research in Sydney.



There are a few caveats to that test. For starters, elite athletes were not used. And secondly, for ethical reasons, the subjects used smaller doses for a shorter time than the presumed, typical illegal user.

Greater doses for longer periods may have resulted in more serious side effects. Keep in mind, the subjects were only volunteers and not pro athletes. Those in the study who received HGH were more likely to experience swelling and joint paint verses those who received the placebo. Obviously, side effects are thought to be more serious at the higher doses.

So is HGH performance-enhancing?

HGH, at average to slightly above normal doses, may not have the jaw-dropping performance-enhancing attributes of the typical anabolic steroid and may not turn you into The Incredible Hulk or Superman. Moreover, human growth hormone alone probably wouldn't make an ordinary fighter a superstar world champion BUT "may," in some ways, enable a great old fighter to turn back the clock.

In addition, at average doses, HGH can be highly benefitial for an elite pro athlete 22-35 where that tiny boost in explosiveness can make all the difference at the highest levels in sports.

There's no question a 25 year old fighter can attain abnormally high levels of HGH by injecting himself with the synthetic version of the substance - And that is cheating. But what about the 46 year old who simply wants to raise himself to the level he once enjoyed at 25? Should we consider it cheating if his level of HGH is the same unnaturally as his younger opponent's is naturally?

- See more at: http://www.fightsaga.com/news/item/5063 ... 2u5es.dpuf

macaca wrote:Someone here today posted that Briggs is in tip top shape .....

He is.. have you been paying attention to his instagram?

KBB wrote:There's no question a 25 year old fighter can attain abnormally high levels of HGH by injecting himself with the synthetic version of the substance - And that is cheating. But what about the 46 year old who simply wants to raise himself to the level he once enjoyed at 25? Should we consider it cheating if his level of HGH is the same unnaturally as his younger opponent's is naturally?

my answer would be yes. if there was a brain
implant that would provide more experience
to the younger fighter, that would be cheating
too.

PED's should be legal for recreational and sport use. If guys want to negotiate drug testing for specific fights/matches/whatever then that is also fine.

Level playing fields don't exist, and regulation for health and safety purposes are laughable to put it mildly.

punchoutsb wrote:PED's should be legal for recreational and sport use. If guys want to negotiate drug testing for specific fights/matches/whatever then that is also fine.

Level playing fields don't exist, and regulation for health and safety purposes are laughable to put it mildly.

Never really thought of the bolded, but I kinda dig that idea. If guys can agree to fight clean or with x amount of a performance enhancing product in their system like they do now with gloves or weights than fair play.

Randomly for people genuinely interested in this topic Joe Rogan just did a great podcast with UFC fighter Brandan Schaub where a large part of the talk was dedicated to illegal performance enhancing products talk & how things could look if they were legal.