Mayweather Pacquiao Press Conference Today

[stujones]

Fair comment - although I would say Pacquiao is a bit more than just out and out aggression with no defensive - like Duran in that respect.... It certainly wasn't Duran's defensive qualities that got him through vs Barkley.

Not sure how much sparring etc Floyd did when in Jail.

My point was legs are important to defensive fighters, just as pulling the trigger is important in offense (and getting into position to pull the trigger) - for both its critical and when it starts to go, it can be catastrophic.... like DLH not being able to pull the trigger vs Manny (as well predicted by Roach based on the Forbes fight) and like Leonard - not just in the ill adviced comeback against Camacho - a faded Lightweight who would have had a mismatch had he fought Leonard at Light Middle in 1987, but pretty much all the fights post Hagler when he was relatively active.

Leonard was only 40 when he fought Camacho and 35 when he fought Norris. It can catch up with people at different times. There is real evidence it is catching up with Floyd. He lost rounds against a fighter he would have played with years ago (twice). It was apparently so close first time round that the public demanded a rematch.... even the 35 year old Manny is much better than Maidana.

Yes, we can say there is evidence for Manny also - he struggled against 2 A class fighters (Bradley and Marquez - Marquez he's always struggled with) but then dominated a couple of B- fighters. Would the Pacquiao of 2008/2009 also struggled with Bradley? Personally, I think style wise he would have always struggled somewhat against Bradley - Bradley is a clever fighter who is underestimated. I think Floyd of 2008/2009 would have marmalised the Pacquiao of the same time, but now I think Floyd has slowed he is playing more into Manny's hands more than how much Manny has slowed plays more into Floyd's hands.

If Manny does strike gold on May 2nd it will be a shame for Floyd because I don't think a Manny victory is a reflection on how these two would have matched in their prime. Just like both Camacho and Leonard were shot in 1996 but that result doesn't reflect a match up in their primes.

i hope you are right cos I'd love to see manny win, but floyd can make people miss standing right in front of them. He's like toney in that respect. The point about jail is a good one, but he'd never looked better than vs Canelo or Guerrero.

Now we discuss it, I'm getting more excited for it, it's quite intriguing. I wasn't really fussed before with all the politics.

Embarrisingly I tipped Canelo against Floyd - but seeing Canelo against Lara since, I just forgot just how slow he can look sometimes (at this very high level). With the chance to re-think about it, I think Manny 2015 is a tougher fight than Canelo for Floyd- cos he is quicker, a lot quicker. I thought at the time Canelos' youth and sheer size will be enough - but he is just too slow in hindsight.

Yeah, the Guerrero win was excellent and criminally overlooked in the grand scheme of things - Guerrero is a damn fine fighter in his own right.

Up until the Maidana fights I wouldn't have any issues with anyone calling Manny more shot or it being the least "competitive" out of any time their names being linked - but I don't know, something was very missing in the Maidana fight.... and IMO PARTICULARLY the rematch, cos I don't think Floyd underestimated him then or fought the wrong game plan.... just couldn't sustain it. Maidana was AWFUL that night.

[stevieb_8006]

Fair comment - although I would say Pacquiao is a bit more than just out and out aggression with no defensive - like Duran in that respect.... It certainly wasn't Duran's defensive qualities that got him through vs Barkley.

Not sure how much sparring etc Floyd did when in Jail.

My point was legs are important to defensive fighters, just as pulling the trigger is important in offense (and getting into position to pull the trigger) - for both its critical and when it starts to go, it can be catastrophic.... like DLH not being able to pull the trigger vs Manny (as well predicted by Roach based on the Forbes fight) and like Leonard - not just in the ill adviced comeback against Camacho - a faded Lightweight who would have had a mismatch had he fought Leonard at Light Middle in 1987, but pretty much all the fights post Hagler when he was relatively active.

Leonard was only 40 when he fought Camacho and 35 when he fought Norris. It can catch up with people at different times. There is real evidence it is catching up with Floyd. He lost rounds against a fighter he would have played with years ago (twice). It was apparently so close first time round that the public demanded a rematch.... even the 35 year old Manny is much better than Maidana.

Yes, we can say there is evidence for Manny also - he struggled against 2 A class fighters (Bradley and Marquez - Marquez he's always struggled with) but then dominated a couple of B- fighters. Would the Pacquiao of 2008/2009 also struggled with Bradley? Personally, I think style wise he would have always struggled somewhat against Bradley - Bradley is a clever fighter who is underestimated. I think Floyd of 2008/2009 would have marmalised the Pacquiao of the same time, but now I think Floyd has slowed he is playing more into Manny's hands more than how much Manny has slowed plays more into Floyd's hands.

If Manny does strike gold on May 2nd it will be a shame for Floyd because I don't think a Manny victory is a reflection on how these two would have matched in their prime. Just like both Camacho and Leonard were shot in 1996 but that result doesn't reflect a match up in their primes.

i hope you are right cos I'd love to see manny win, but floyd can make people miss standing right in front of them. He's like toney in that respect. The point about jail is a good one, but he'd never looked better than vs Canelo or Guerrero.

Now we discuss it, I'm getting more excited for it, it's quite intriguing. I wasn't really fussed before with all the politics.

Embarrisingly I tipped Canelo against Floyd - but seeing Canelo against Lara since, I just forgot just how slow he can look sometimes (at this very high level). With the chance to re-think about it, I think Manny 2015 is a tougher fight than Canelo for Floyd- cos he is quicker, a lot quicker. I thought at the time Canelos' youth and sheer size will be enough - but he is just too slow in hindsight.

Yeah, the Guerrero win was excellent and criminally overlooked in the grand scheme of things - Guerrero is a damn fine fighter in his own right.

Up until the Maidana fights I wouldn't have any issues with anyone calling Manny more shot or it being the least "competitive" out of any time their names being linked - but I don't know, something was very missing in the Maidana fight.... and IMO PARTICULARLY the rematch, cos I don't think Floyd underestimated him then or fought the wrong game plan.... just couldn't sustain it. Maidana was AWFUL that night.

it might be that floyd basically threw single shots all night.

[Matchfixer]

Yes, we can say there is evidence for Manny also - he struggled against 2 A class fighters (Bradley and Marquez - Marquez he's always struggled with) but then dominated a couple of B- fighters. Would the Pacquiao of 2008/2009 also struggled with Bradley? Personally, I think style wise he would have always struggled somewhat against Bradley - Bradley is a clever fighter who is underestimated. I think Floyd of 2008/2009 would have marmalised the Pacquiao of the same time, but now I think Floyd has slowed he is playing more into Manny's hands more than how much Manny has slowed plays more into Floyd's hands.

If Manny does strike gold on May 2nd it will be a shame for Floyd because I don't think a Manny victory is a reflection on how these two would have matched in their prime. Just like both Camacho and Leonard were shot in 1996 but that result doesn't reflect a match up in their primes.

I think the opposite. The Pacquiao of 2008/09 that fought and heavily beat DLH, Cotto and Hatton ? Really ?

Mayweather had SD'd DLH the previous year, and had Hatton chase him around the ring for 10 rounds. Then fighting the less ripped version of Marquez in 2009. He certainly didn't handle Cotto in 2012 the way Manny did years earlier.

Hmm... perhaps it's just me... but I am of the opinion that FM wanted no piece of Manny in that period. And most likely, the only reason he fancies it now is because he'll believe he will win.

[stujones]

Off course its if buts and maybes, but for me DLH was weight drained and aged vs Pacquiao more so than vs FM.... also those three fighters are bigger (especially Cotto and DLH) but also slower.... I don't think Manny of 2008 was much better than the Manny who lost to Morales and struggled (continually) with Marquez. Smarter, smaller and quicker fighters. Which Floyd in 2008 fell into.

Whereas Floyd has looked (up until Alverez) less than stellar at 154. I think neither Hatton nor DLH were the same fighters post Mayweather.

[Matchfixer]

Off course its if buts and maybes, but for me DLH was weight drained and aged vs Pacquiao more so than vs FM.... also those three fighters are bigger (especially Cotto and DLH) but also slower.... I don't think Manny of 2008 was much better than the Manny who lost to Morales and struggled (continually) with Marquez. Smarter, smaller and quicker fighters. Which Floyd in 2008 fell into.

Whereas Floyd has looked (up until Alverez) less than stellar at 154. I think neither Hatton nor DLH were the same fighters post Mayweather.

Fair comments, particularly Manny against fighters who against smaller and quicker fighters.

DLH was certainly weight drained, can't argue. He even said it himself in an interview but still gave a lot of credit to Manny for the win.

Let's see what happens...

[Carbo]

Yes, we can say there is evidence for Manny also - he struggled against 2 A class fighters (Bradley and Marquez - Marquez he's always struggled with) but then dominated a couple of B- fighters. Would the Pacquiao of 2008/2009 also struggled with Bradley? Personally, I think style wise he would have always struggled somewhat against Bradley - Bradley is a clever fighter who is underestimated. I think Floyd of 2008/2009 would have marmalised the Pacquiao of the same time, but now I think Floyd has slowed he is playing more into Manny's hands more than how much Manny has slowed plays more into Floyd's hands.

If Manny does strike gold on May 2nd it will be a shame for Floyd because I don't think a Manny victory is a reflection on how these two would have matched in their prime. Just like both Camacho and Leonard were shot in 1996 but that result doesn't reflect a match up in their primes.

I think the opposite. The Pacquiao of 2008/09 that fought and heavily beat DLH, Cotto and Hatton ? Really ?

Mayweather had SD'd DLH the previous year, and had Hatton chase him around the ring for 10 rounds. Then fighting the less ripped version of Marquez in 2009. He certainly didn't handle Cotto in 2012 the way Manny did years earlier.

Hmm... perhaps it's just me... but I am of the opinion that FM wanted no piece of Manny in that period. And most likely, the only reason he fancies it now is because he'll believe he will win.

I think that he's been forced into it by Showtime, essentially. PPV numbers were going where they wanted, and they knew fine well that people would view another fight against anyone at 154 or below who wasn't Pacquiao as meh.

I think that we forget that up to and including the Castillo fights, Mayweather was matched extremely competitively. One might argue that he avoided Freitas and Casamayor at 130, who were super hot at the time, but I believe that he had genuine weight problems. And when he stepped up to 135, he took on the very best of the lightweight champions. The problem after that was that he was matched extremely conservatively. I don't blame him for maximising his revenue earning potential for minumum risk, but there were loads of fights he couldn't and should have taken that he didn't (Hatton, Cotto and Tszyu at 140, Margarito and Williams at 147, and then Pacquiao).

Given the following:

Since Castillo II Mayweather has taken the path of least resistance;
Mayweather is obsessed (at least in public) with money;
A fight with Pacquiao would have given him more money than any other by several orders of magnitude;
Mayweather is obsessed with keeping his 0;

I think that we can conclude that Floyd avoided Pacquiao for a reason (and, by the way, I very much see Floyd as the one who ducked that match, rather than the other way around: it was Floyed who introduced the idea of random testing, which he had never demanded for any fight before, and it was Floyd's representitives who didn't turn up when Arum wanted to look at Cowboy's Stadium as a potential location, etc).

So, for what it's worth, I think that Floyd knows that this fight will be tough.

[stujones]

Carbo,

Floyd would have got criticised no matter who he fought since Castillo 2.

Had he fought someone like Winky Wright at Light Middle, people would have criticised him for not facing DLH.

I know people cite the Carlos Baldomir "incident" and him firstly fighting Judah (after a defeat) and the unheralded Baldomir instead of unproven "killers" like Margarito and Williams.... but fact is, Judah was considered the #1 Light Welter in the world, due to the fact he was more proven, before losing his mandatory tune up - so he faced the guy most people considered the #1 Light Welter for a long time and the guy who dethroned him. As opposed to the likes of Margarito who couldn't beat Daniel Santos..... so if he would have faced Margarito - why not Santos.

He fought the "unproven" buy considered a young livewire in Alvarez and people still condemn him and call Alvarez "the path of least resistance" - for exact opposite reason as why he fought Judah as opposed to Margarito.

He could have fought Tszyu and people would have discussed his age and inactivity..... just like they do with Hatton's weight issues - conveniently forgetting that the build up commentators and experts said its a "genuine Light Welter" against a "genuine Lightweight" at Welterweight, its got to favour the Light Welter.

He beats Mosley who destroyed Margarito in the fight previous, but people were still harping on about Margarito.

He beats Cotto after a career defining win and people were now talking about Alvarez..... Cotto at 140
- Cotto was dead at the weight before he won the title - look at his up and downers against medicore fighters. He was a much better fighter at 147 than 140. Had he fought Cotto at 140 people would have said that about Floyd anyway.

The guy just cannot win with some people, so I disagree with the "FACT" that he has ALWAYS taken the path of least resistance.

[Carbo]

Carbo,

Floyd would have got criticised no matter who he fought since Castillo 2.

Had he fought someone like Winky Wright at Light Middle, people would have criticised him for not facing DLH.

I know people cite the Carlos Baldomir "incident" and him firstly fighting Judah (after a defeat) and the unheralded Baldomir instead of unproven "killers" like Margarito and Williams.... but fact is, Judah was considered the #1 Light Welter in the world, due to the fact he was more proven, before losing his mandatory tune up - so he faced the guy most people considered the #1 Light Welter for a long time and the guy who dethroned him. As opposed to the likes of Margarito who couldn't beat Daniel Santos..... so if he would have faced Margarito - why not Santos.

He fought the "unproven" buy considered a young livewire in Alvarez and people still condemn him and call Alvarez "the path of least resistance" - for exact opposite reason as why he fought Judah as opposed to Margarito.

He could have fought Tszyu and people would have discussed his age and inactivity..... just like they do with Hatton's weight issues - conveniently forgetting that the build up commentators and experts said its a "genuine Light Welter" against a "genuine Lightweight" at Welterweight, its got to favour the Light Welter.

He beats Mosley who destroyed Margarito in the fight previous, but people were still harping on about Margarito.

He beats Cotto after a career defining win and people were now talking about Alvarez..... Cotto at 140
- Cotto was dead at the weight before he won the title - look at his up and downers against medicore fighters. He was a much better fighter at 147 than 140. Had he fought Cotto at 140 people would have said that about Floyd anyway.

The guy just cannot win with some people, so I disagree with the "FACT" that he has ALWAYS taken the path of least resistance.

Disagree completely. After Castillo, he fought Sosa and, I think, N'Dou. I'm willing to forgive those gimmies after the run he had. He then stepped up to 140, and had a warm up match against Chop Chop Corely (dangerous, but more a gatekeeper type). After that he fought the incredibly underwhelming Henry Brussles. I understand that Gatti was a huge money fight, but Gatti was by a long way the weakest of the 140 title holders, and after that, surely, you go for Hatton or Cotto, who were the clear leaders in that division? But no, he stepped up to Welter and immediately fought... a light welter in Shamba Mitchell. It's true that Judah was well respected, and I don't say that was a bad fight to make, but given Judah had serious concentration and heart issues, and given his losses, it's not great that it was the high point, both in terms of anticipation and quality, of his matchmaking over a five year period. That is to say, it was a good fight, I don't criticise him for taking it and I enjoyed it, but it's not worthy as a high point over a five year span.

Spin it as you will, but you can't deny that he was in the same divisions at the same times as undefeated and undisputed Kostya Tszyu, a peak Hatton, a peak Cotto (twice) a peak Margarito, a peak Williams and a closer to peak Mosley, and a peak Pacquiao and didn't fight any of them. Instead, he fought Corely, Brussels, Gatti, Mitchell, Judah and Baldomir.

I think you're wrong that he would have been criticised comewhat may. If he had fought Hatton/Tszyu, Cotto, Gatti, Mitchell, Judah, Margarito instead, far from being criticised, he would have, had he won them all, have been stoking arguments about whether he was the GOAT. Indeed, had he had that softish run, but then fought DLH and Pacquiao when he fought Mosley, then I don't think anyone would have been criticising him now.

I feel I'm not biased, because I think Mayweather is the best boxer of his generation. I also, unlike most when they talk on this matter, draw attention to his pre-Castillo matchmaking, which was tough and strong. However, since Castillo, it's been indefensible, in my view, apart from a risk-financial reward point of view.

[Syntax Error]

Watched a stream of it online. Very dull and subdued! A bunch of folk thanking hundreds of other folk I've never heard of for what a great job they've all done making the fight happen! Utter bollux!

So true.

Imagine how sanctimonious & big headed they would have been had the negotiations that got this fight together had taken less time than the last World War?

[stujones]

We'll agree to disagree Carbo.... my point was there would have been spin had he had any of the options.

I'll give you Brussels and Corley. I consider both of those as "lets see what I'm like at 140" type of fights.... Gatti the weakest "by far" of the 140 champions at the time..... I think that is open to debate a bit - Vivian Harries was struggling with Oktay Urkal (who had a struggle with Eamonn Magee). Tszyu retired (essentially) in May 2005 so their passed never truly crossed (Floyd wasn't a world champion at the weight until June), yes maybe a missed opportunity a bit but I don't think the whole blame can be made on Floyd.... lets not forget he wasn't "money" in those days.... Gatti and DLH made him the PPV star, before that he couldn't sell out in Vegas. Tszyu was also very inactive and had Mandatory obligations to fulfil (e.g. Mitchell and then Hatton).

As I said for me Cotto was dead at 140 before he won the title, his title run was largely forgettable - life and death struggle with Ricardo Torres, a bit of a struggle with Malignaggi - yes, perhaps at 147 it should have been made.

Sharmba Mitchell? Yeah good, decent fighter - but again any more proven than Gatti? Again not sure it was a forgone conclusion that he would have beaten Gatti.

Yeah, there is Hatton off course at 140 and off course there was Pacquiao at 147, definately - cannot dispute these.... but I think the critique of Judah/Baldomir/DLH/Mosley is a bit much...... even at DLH and Mosley's age they were stil (IMO) the best 154 and 147 fighters at the time of their fights.... I don't know what Marargito/Williams did so amazing that justified them being considered those four.... add Alaverez to the mix it aint a bad resume.

Yeah, obviously the lack of a Pacquiao fight is/was a big shame.