BoxRec

koolkc107 wrote:Stop using the "Haymon fighter" copout.

It isn't true now and I don't know if it ever was.

Haymon fighters fight on HBO when it suits HBO.

If anything, you could blame GGG and K2.

They are the ones who signed an "exclusive deal" with HBO, knowing full well that most of the guys he needs to fight are on Showtime.

But, he gets another chance soon.

His 4 fight deal with HBO ends with Monroe if HBO is foolish enough to air that farce.

Let's see if K2 risks their Guarded Golden Goose

When is that? You don't follow boxing, do you? But love to make embarrassing threads like this crap. Why is that?

The last Haymon guy on HBO was Edwin Rodriguez, 1.5 years ago. Since then things have gone even more downhill, what with Haymon killing Stevenson Kovalev, poaching most of the GBP roster (who are now back on HBO), and starting up PBC.

"most of the guys he needs to fight are on Showtime". Like who? Chavez just ran to SHO, he was still on HBO when he refused to sign a contract to fight GGG. Canelo, Cotto, Ward, Froch, all HBO. Most of the guys you listed have no interest in facing GGG anytime soon. He's by no means being difficult with those name fighters. His promoter said they're fine being the "C-side" to Cotto, signed a 75/25 contract in favor of Chavez. But no matter who promotes him, he can't make offers to name guys like these guys purse demands are way beyond what he brings.

And please, just keep posting links to BN24 opinion pieces, as if you already aren't clueless enough.

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote: Chavez just ran to SHO, he was still on HBO when he refused to sign a contract to fight GGG.

I think there is enough details out that Bob was trying to low ball Julio thus Julio made a business move & walked. Thats probably why he's with Haymon now. I can't diss a guy for refusing to get screwed over by his promoter in the getting hit in the head business just to placate fans wishes who don't gotta live with the financial decisions the fighters make. Only got so many fights, so many years in the game. No need to get paid peanuts when you got caviar value.

Ricky_ wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:
Kind of a self serving argument, isn't it?

It's like me saying, well LaMotta never faced Walker Smith as a welter so his wars with Sugar don't count.

Floyd's resume is impressive by any standard...and it is full on HOF caliber fighters.

Huh!? Robinson weighed 145 when he whooped jakes ass.

My point is this. A signature win (as you put it) for elite guys checks all 3 of the following boxes: 1. an all time great calibre fighter, 2. In his prime and 3. In his premium weight class.

So in Floyd's case he has good wins, Mosley and Oscar are atg's but don't tick either of the other 2 boxes. Same with Cotto. Hatton, meh, out his depth at 147, not convinced he's an atg either.

Floyd has lineal titles in four weight classes. Take several seats and log off.

ReggieDiggs wrote:

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote: Chavez just ran to SHO, he was still on HBO when he refused to sign a contract to fight GGG.

I think there is enough details out that Bob was trying to low ball Julio thus Julio made a business move & walked. Thats probably why he's with Haymon now. I can't diss a guy for refusing to get screwed over by his promoter in the getting hit in the head business just to placate fans wishes who don't gotta live with the financial decisions the fighters make. Only got so many fights, so many years in the game. No need to get paid peanuts when you got caviar value.

JCCJ's value will soon hit the bottom after he is beaten by a few guys of his size.

ikorolev wrote:

ReggieDiggs wrote:

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote: Chavez just ran to SHO, he was still on HBO when he refused to sign a contract to fight GGG.

I think there is enough details out that Bob was trying to low ball Julio thus Julio made a business move & walked. Thats probably why he's with Haymon now. I can't diss a guy for refusing to get screwed over by his promoter in the getting hit in the head business just to placate fans wishes who don't gotta live with the financial decisions the fighters make. Only got so many fights, so many years in the game. No need to get paid peanuts when you got caviar value.

JCCJ's value will soon hit the bottom after he is beaten by a few guys of his size.

And that don't got sh!t to do with what happened with Bob & its just like your opinion maaaaaaaaaaaan.

ReggieDiggs wrote:

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote: Chavez just ran to SHO, he was still on HBO when he refused to sign a contract to fight GGG.

I think there is enough details out that Bob was trying to low ball Julio thus Julio made a business move & walked. Thats probably why he's with Haymon now. I can't diss a guy for refusing to get screwed over by his promoter in the getting hit in the head business just to placate fans wishes who don't gotta live with the financial decisions the fighters make. Only got so many fights, so many years in the game. No need to get paid peanuts when you got caviar value.

The no extension offer was a low ball, but per Chavez' manager, he was also offered GGG for 7m with a single fight extension worth 5m if he lost , 10m if won. That's not peanuts. What Chavez makes next Fonfara isn't peanuts either, only compared to that deal. What is peanuts is the zero he made for sitting out when he could a a already been done with the 2 fights and 12m richer. Its only a bad business deal if GGG ends Chavez career last summer at 7m, he can probably milk his name for more long term

Ricky_ wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:
Kind of a self serving argument, isn't it?

It's like me saying, well LaMotta never faced Walker Smith as a welter so his wars with Sugar don't count.

Floyd's resume is impressive by any standard...and it is full on HOF caliber fighters.

Huh!? Robinson weighed 145 when he whooped jakes ass.

My point is this. A signature win (as you put it) for elite guys checks all 3 of the following boxes: 1. an all time great calibre fighter, 2. In his prime and 3. In his premium weight class.

So in Floyd's case he has good wins, Mosley and Oscar are atg's but don't tick either of the other 2 boxes. Same with Cotto. Hatton, meh, out his depth at 147, not convinced he's an atg either.

I was referring to the disparity between the two in weight. LaMotta was a middleweight fighting a welter. Yes, Ray whooped that ass the first time, but LaMotta used his size to damn near kill Ray the next.

But, going by your logic, we can throw out other victories by big time fighters as well.

Pac's victory over DLH or Cotto don't count because Oscar and Miguel were not at their optimum weights at the time. Ditto the 2 wins over Morales.

I am going to say one more thing on this (hopefully) then move on.

You can play games and bring up reasons to detract from ANY fighter's record. But, to imply that a fighter of Mayweather's caliber has anything less than an extremely impressive body of work says more about the person spouting such nonsense than it detracts from the fighter.

You are better than that, man.

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote:

ReggieDiggs wrote:

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote: Chavez just ran to SHO, he was still on HBO when he refused to sign a contract to fight GGG.

I think there is enough details out that Bob was trying to low ball Julio thus Julio made a business move & walked. Thats probably why he's with Haymon now. I can't diss a guy for refusing to get screwed over by his promoter in the getting hit in the head business just to placate fans wishes who don't gotta live with the financial decisions the fighters make. Only got so many fights, so many years in the game. No need to get paid peanuts when you got caviar value.

The no extension offer was a low ball, but per Chavez' manager, he was also offered GGG for 7m with a single fight extension worth 5m if he lost , 10m if won. That's not peanuts. What Chavez makes next Fonfara isn't peanuts either, only compared to that deal. What is peanuts is the zero he made for sitting out when he could a a already been done with the 2 fights and 12m richer. Its only a bad business deal if GGG ends Chavez career last summer at 7m, he can probably milk his name for more long term

It's peanuts if A) you think your original contract is expiring before Arum does and B) some other guy is offering you 40 million over roughly the same period.

And there's more. Here's an excerpt from Satterfield's piece:

"There is no update but the point is that I thought that we made a crazy, unbelievable offer to Chavez for the Golovkin fight. It called for the Golovkin fight to pay him a minimum $7 million, and if he lost that fight, we guaranteed him another fight for $5 million. Now if he beat Golovkin, then we would pay him a minimum for his next fight of $10 million," said Arum, whose Top Rank contract runs through October 2015 with Chavez.

"So we would…do these two fights, and the minimum he would make is $12 million, and if he was successful, $17 million plus. He turned that offer down. So we offered him a one-fight offer at considerably less money but still better than what Golovkin accepted for the fight and he turned that down. So obviously, he doesn't want the fight and we go on with our business."

Chavez's manager, Billy Keane could not be reached for an immediate comment. But Keane told Yahoo!Sports that Top Rank's contract for the pay-per-view bout against Golovkin (29-0, 26 KOs) is for 70 percent less money than Chavez would have been offered if he signed the two-fight extension.

Keane also said that under terms of the new deal, Chavez would not get a share of pay-per-view revenues until after Top Rank had made "millions upon millions of dollars."

"The so-called upside on the pay-per-view did not even kick in until Top Rank made multiple millions of dollars," said Keane, according to ESPN.com. "More than Chavez and likely more than both fighters combined. This is why the fight is no longer happening. It's completely disturbing and completely unfair how these negotiations were."

http://ringtv.craveonline.com/news/3377 ... in-fallout

What is it with Arum and some of his top fighters? And it only make you wonder how bad the ones that stay with him are getting robbed.

koolkc107 wrote: It's peanuts if A) you think your original contract is expiring before Arum does and B) some other guy is offering you 40 million over roughly the same period.

And there's more. Here's an excerpt from Satterfield's piece:

"There is no update but the point is that I thought that we made a crazy, unbelievable offer to Chavez for the Golovkin fight. It called for the Golovkin fight to pay him a minimum $7 million, and if he lost that fight, we guaranteed him another fight for $5 million. Now if he beat Golovkin, then we would pay him a minimum for his next fight of $10 million," said Arum, whose Top Rank contract runs through October 2015 with Chavez.

"So we would…do these two fights, and the minimum he would make is $12 million, and if he was successful, $17 million plus. He turned that offer down. So we offered him a one-fight offer at considerably less money but still better than what Golovkin accepted for the fight and he turned that down. So obviously, he doesn't want the fight and we go on with our business."

Chavez's manager, Billy Keane could not be reached for an immediate comment. But Keane told Yahoo!Sports that Top Rank's contract for the pay-per-view bout against Golovkin (29-0, 26 KOs) is for 70 percent less money than Chavez would have been offered if he signed the two-fight extension.

Keane also said that under terms of the new deal, Chavez would not get a share of pay-per-view revenues until after Top Rank had made "millions upon millions of dollars."

"The so-called upside on the pay-per-view did not even kick in until Top Rank made multiple millions of dollars," said Keane, according to ESPN.com. "More than Chavez and likely more than both fighters combined. This is why the fight is no longer happening. It's completely disturbing and completely unfair how these negotiations were."

http://ringtv.craveonline.com/news/3377 ... in-fallout

What is it with Arum and some of his top fighters? And it only make you wonder how bad the ones that stay with him are getting robbed.

40m over the same period? He made 0 instead of 12m in the same period. How much is he making vs Fonfara next, 2m? And this guy is complaining about the upside on top of the
7m for Ggg lol. Gotcha, the risk doesn't match the reward but let's drop this joke that Chavez wants to fight GGG. Maybe when its as big as Floyd vs Pac, as Quillin says.

Actually, we wont know what JCC jr makes over the same period for a while now.

But if he does get that 40 million then I think we can both agree he made the right move for himself financially.

And GGG will be there in any case...unless he changes his tune again like he did when the "anyone from 154 to 175" wolf ticket became "I need to stay in division"

koolkc107 wrote:Actually, we wont know what JCC jr makes over the same period for a while now.

But if he does get that 40 million then I think we can both agree he made the right move for himself financially.

And GGG will be there in any case...unless he changes his tune again like he did when the "anyone from 154 to 175" wolf ticket became "I need to stay in division"

He could have already been done with his contract and one fight extension. 12m >>> 0. Like Frochs promoter said, it'll take outrageous money for the name fighters to step in with GGG, including his guy. That's why there's no name fighters on his resume.

People trying in vain to tear down GGG makes me laugh.

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote:

ReggieDiggs wrote:

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote: Chavez just ran to SHO, he was still on HBO when he refused to sign a contract to fight GGG.

I think there is enough details out that Bob was trying to low ball Julio thus Julio made a business move & walked. Thats probably why he's with Haymon now. I can't diss a guy for refusing to get screwed over by his promoter in the getting hit in the head business just to placate fans wishes who don't gotta live with the financial decisions the fighters make. Only got so many fights, so many years in the game. No need to get paid peanuts when you got caviar value.

The no extension offer was a low ball, but per Chavez' manager, he was also offered GGG for 7m with a single fight extension worth 5m if he lost , 10m if won. That's not peanuts. What Chavez makes next Fonfara isn't peanuts either, only compared to that deal. What is peanuts is the zero he made for sitting out when he could a a already been done with the 2 fights and 12m richer. Its only a bad business deal if GGG ends Chavez career last summer at 7m, he can probably milk his name for more long term

I'm assuming like many Julio Jr discovered how he was getting screwed over by Bob & resigning for any length of time was a deal breaker. Bob has a vast history of his biggest names leaving him so there is more sh!t going on behind the scenes here than we know about (imho) til someone writes the e-book about it. Regardless though I don't see any offer that requires a resigning with a person you don't wanna be with as a good deal just cuz of the number. Julio Jr will make more money without Bob, just like everyone else, & we'll see that as he starts fighting more win or lose.

koolkc107 wrote: Chavez's manager, Billy Keane could not be reached for an immediate comment. But Keane told Yahoo!Sports that Top Rank's contract for the pay-per-view bout against Golovkin (29-0, 26 KOs) is for 70 percent less money than Chavez would have been offered if he signed the two-fight extension.

Keane also said that under terms of the new deal, Chavez would not get a share of pay-per-view revenues until after Top Rank had made "millions upon millions of dollars."

"The so-called upside on the pay-per-view did not even kick in until Top Rank made multiple millions of dollars," said Keane, according to ESPN.com. "More than Chavez and likely more than both fighters combined. This is why the fight is no longer happening. It's completely disturbing and completely unfair how these negotiations were."

See this is what I mean. Bob is straight hustling guys. Julio is a PPV cat waiting to happen & to f#ck him over on PPV is just bad business. And this is why Julio is doing new sh!t. And I guarantee you whatever he's getting paid now for fighting whoever, he'd be making less for Bob vs the same guy, so ultimately Julio is giving himself the best chance to make the most money whoever he fights, win or lose. This is simple sh!t people. If you try to f#ck me over & I discover the f#ckery, you lose my loyalty to you & all my future business. I think thats probably the bottom line with Bob & Julio.

ReggieDiggs wrote:

koolkc107 wrote: Chavez's manager, Billy Keane could not be reached for an immediate comment. But Keane told Yahoo!Sports that Top Rank's contract for the pay-per-view bout against Golovkin (29-0, 26 KOs) is for 70 percent less money than Chavez would have been offered if he signed the two-fight extension.

Keane also said that under terms of the new deal, Chavez would not get a share of pay-per-view revenues until after Top Rank had made "millions upon millions of dollars."

"The so-called upside on the pay-per-view did not even kick in until Top Rank made multiple millions of dollars," said Keane, according to ESPN.com. "More than Chavez and likely more than both fighters combined. This is why the fight is no longer happening. It's completely disturbing and completely unfair how these negotiations were."

See this is what I mean. Bob is straight hustling guys. Julio is a PPV cat waiting to happen & to f#ck him over on PPV is just bad business. And this is why Julio is doing new sh!t. And I guarantee you whatever he's getting paid now for fighting whoever, he'd be making less for Bob vs the same guy, so ultimately Julio is giving himself the best chance to make the most money whoever he fights, win or lose. This is simple sh!t people. If you try to f#ck me over & I discover the f#ckery, you lose my loyalty to you & all my future business. I think thats probably the bottom line with Bob & Julio.

Exactly.

But, you let fanboys tell it and it is all about running away from the dreaded GGG...SMH

koolkc107 wrote:
I was referring to the disparity between the two in weight. LaMotta was a middleweight fighting a welter. Yes, Ray whooped that ass the first time, but LaMotta used his size to damn near kill Ray the next.

But, going by your logic, we can throw out other victories by big time fighters as well.

Pac's victory over DLH or Cotto don't count because Oscar and Miguel were not at their optimum weights at the time. Ditto the 2 wins over Morales.

I am going to say one more thing on this (hopefully) then move on.

You can play games and bring up reasons to detract from ANY fighter's record. But, to imply that a fighter of Mayweather's caliber has anything less than an extremely impressive body of work says more about the person spouting such nonsense than it detracts from the fighter.

You are better than that, man.

firstly, your comparison to SRR v LaMotta is ridiculous, as well as wrong, twice now. Robinson lost to LaMotta the first time they thought. If you want to use history to make yourself look more knowledgeable then at least get it right.


And as for digging up Pac's wins over Cotto as "not counting", i'm not saying that Floyd's wins "don't count".

You yourself used the term "signature win".

To me, a "signature win" for an elite fighter is;

(1) an all-time-great calibre fighter, who is (2) in his prime & in his (3) premium weight-class.

Here's a couple example's of "signature wins":

Clay RTD Liston
Ali KO Foreman
Foreman KO Frazier
Leonard TKO Hearns
Lewis TKO Klitchko
Morales UD Pacquiao
Pacquiao TKO Morales
Morales UD Barrera
Barrera UD Hamed
Trinidad UD DeLaHoya
Mosley SD DeLaHoya
Douglas KO Tyson



Floyd fans seem to get real upset he doesn't have one that checks the 3 boxes.

ReggieDiggs wrote:

koolkc107 wrote: Chavez's manager, Billy Keane could not be reached for an immediate comment. But Keane told Yahoo!Sports that Top Rank's contract for the pay-per-view bout against Golovkin (29-0, 26 KOs) is for 70 percent less money than Chavez would have been offered if he signed the two-fight extension.

Keane also said that under terms of the new deal, Chavez would not get a share of pay-per-view revenues until after Top Rank had made "millions upon millions of dollars."

"The so-called upside on the pay-per-view did not even kick in until Top Rank made multiple millions of dollars," said Keane, according to ESPN.com. "More than Chavez and likely more than both fighters combined. This is why the fight is no longer happening. It's completely disturbing and completely unfair how these negotiations were."

See this is what I mean. Bob is straight hustling guys. Julio is a PPV cat waiting to happen & to f#ck him over on PPV is just bad business. And this is why Julio is doing new sh!t. And I guarantee you whatever he's getting paid now for fighting whoever, he'd be making less for Bob vs the same guy, so ultimately Julio is giving himself the best chance to make the most money whoever he fights, win or lose. This is simple sh!t people. If you try to f#ck me over & I discover the f#ckery, you lose my loyalty to you & all my future business. I think thats probably the bottom line with Bob & Julio.

Right, but for some reason, those thoughts came to his mind when he was supposed to fight Golovkin and similarly Stevenson jumped the ship when they were negotiating a fight with Kovalev. These guys just become smart when they are about to be destroyed by a superior fighter.

Ricky_ wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:
I was referring to the disparity between the two in weight. LaMotta was a middleweight fighting a welter. Yes, Ray whooped that ass the first time, but LaMotta used his size to damn near kill Ray the next.

But, going by your logic, we can throw out other victories by big time fighters as well.

Pac's victory over DLH or Cotto don't count because Oscar and Miguel were not at their optimum weights at the time. Ditto the 2 wins over Morales.

I am going to say one more thing on this (hopefully) then move on.

You can play games and bring up reasons to detract from ANY fighter's record. But, to imply that a fighter of Mayweather's caliber has anything less than an extremely impressive body of work says more about the person spouting such nonsense than it detracts from the fighter.

You are better than that, man.

firstly, your comparison to SRR v LaMotta is ridiculous, as well as wrong, twice now. Robinson lost to LaMotta the first time they thought. If you want to use history to make yourself look more knowledgeable then at least get it right.


And as for digging up Pac's wins over Cotto as "not counting", i'm not saying that Floyd's wins "don't count".

You yourself used the term "signature win".

To me, a "signature win" for an elite fighter is;

(1) an all-time-great calibre fighter, who is (2) in his prime & in his (3) premium weight-class.

Here's a couple example's of "signature wins":

Clay RTD Liston
Ali KO Foreman
Foreman KO Frazier
Leonard TKO Hearns
Lewis TKO Klitchko
Morales UD Pacquiao
Pacquiao TKO Morales
Morales UD Barrera
Barrera UD Hamed
Trinidad UD DeLaHoya
Mosley SD DeLaHoya
Douglas KO Tyson



Floyd fans seem to get real upset he doesn't have one that checks the 3 boxes.

The point I was making is that just because a guy has what you call a "premium weight class" doesn't mean that was his best weight when he fought another ATG.

We know Cotto was having problems making welter. To make him fight at 145 cannot be called facing him at anything premium. We know Eric Morales was also having problems with weight the 2nd and 3rd fights. DLH may have been at his best at 147, but if you call his match against Pac at his premium weight, then you are only emphasizing your fanboy myopia.

BTW, Robinson and LaMotta first fought October of 42. It was a UD for Sugar.

ikorolev wrote:

ReggieDiggs wrote:See this is what I mean. Bob is straight hustling guys. Julio is a PPV cat waiting to happen & to f#ck him over on PPV is just bad business. And this is why Julio is doing new sh!t. And I guarantee you whatever he's getting paid now for fighting whoever, he'd be making less for Bob vs the same guy, so ultimately Julio is giving himself the best chance to make the most money whoever he fights, win or lose. This is simple sh!t people. If you try to f#ck me over & I discover the f#ckery, you lose my loyalty to you & all my future business. I think thats probably the bottom line with Bob & Julio.

Right, but for some reason, those thoughts came to his mind when he was supposed to fight Golovkin and similarly Stevenson jumped the ship when they were negotiating a fight with Kovalev. These guys just become smart when they are about to be destroyed by a superior fighter.

Its not for "some reason". It was because his contract was coming to an end & Bob was lowballing him on the PPV numbers.

And boxers are reknown for being "smart" later in their careers, typically after getting f#cked over a few times. I can't hate on a guy for "getting smart" at any point in their development. Sh!t man I think its hard enough to be great at one thing, how are you supposed to be great at fighting & not getting f#cked over by someone who's great at f#cking people over???

Ricky_ wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:
I was referring to the disparity between the two in weight. LaMotta was a middleweight fighting a welter. Yes, Ray whooped that ass the first time, but LaMotta used his size to damn near kill Ray the next.

But, going by your logic, we can throw out other victories by big time fighters as well.

Pac's victory over DLH or Cotto don't count because Oscar and Miguel were not at their optimum weights at the time. Ditto the 2 wins over Morales.

I am going to say one more thing on this (hopefully) then move on.

You can play games and bring up reasons to detract from ANY fighter's record. But, to imply that a fighter of Mayweather's caliber has anything less than an extremely impressive body of work says more about the person spouting such nonsense than it detracts from the fighter.

You are better than that, man.

firstly, your comparison to SRR v LaMotta is ridiculous, as well as wrong, twice now. Robinson lost to LaMotta the first time they thought. If you want to use history to make yourself look more knowledgeable then at least get it right.


And as for digging up Pac's wins over Cotto as "not counting", i'm not saying that Floyd's wins "don't count".

You yourself used the term "signature win".

To me, a "signature win" for an elite fighter is;

(1) an all-time-great calibre fighter, who is (2) in his prime & in his (3) premium weight-class.

Here's a couple example's of "signature wins":

Clay RTD Liston
Ali KO Foreman
Foreman KO Frazier
Leonard TKO Hearns
Lewis TKO Klitchko
Morales UD Pacquiao
Pacquiao TKO Morales
Morales UD Barrera
Barrera UD Hamed
Trinidad UD DeLaHoya
Mosley SD DeLaHoya
Douglas KO Tyson



Floyd fans seem to get real upset he doesn't have one that checks the 3 boxes.

Er....nope!

Oct 2 1942 - Robinson UD10 Lamotta
Feb 5 1943 - Lamotta UD10 Robinson
Feb 26 1943 - Robinson UD10 Lamotta
Feb 23 1945 - Robinson UD10 Lamotta
Sept 26 1945 - Robinson SD12 Lamotta
Sept 14 1951 - Robinson TKO13 Lamotta

jezzamundo wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:
I was referring to the disparity between the two in weight. LaMotta was a middleweight fighting a welter. Yes, Ray whooped that ass the first time, but LaMotta used his size to damn near kill Ray the next.

But, going by your logic, we can throw out other victories by big time fighters as well.

Pac's victory over DLH or Cotto don't count because Oscar and Miguel were not at their optimum weights at the time. Ditto the 2 wins over Morales.

I am going to say one more thing on this (hopefully) then move on.

You can play games and bring up reasons to detract from ANY fighter's record. But, to imply that a fighter of Mayweather's caliber has anything less than an extremely impressive body of work says more about the person spouting such nonsense than it detracts from the fighter.

You are better than that, man.

firstly, your comparison to SRR v LaMotta is ridiculous, as well as wrong, twice now. Robinson lost to LaMotta the first time they thought. If you want to use history to make yourself look more knowledgeable then at least get it right.


And as for digging up Pac's wins over Cotto as "not counting", i'm not saying that Floyd's wins "don't count".

You yourself used the term "signature win".

To me, a "signature win" for an elite fighter is;

(1) an all-time-great calibre fighter, who is (2) in his prime & in his (3) premium weight-class.

Here's a couple example's of "signature wins":

Clay RTD Liston
Ali KO Foreman
Foreman KO Frazier
Leonard TKO Hearns
Lewis TKO Klitchko
Morales UD Pacquiao
Pacquiao TKO Morales
Morales UD Barrera
Barrera UD Hamed
Trinidad UD DeLaHoya
Mosley SD DeLaHoya
Douglas KO Tyson



Floyd fans seem to get real upset he doesn't have one that checks the 3 boxes.

Er....nope!

Oct 2 1942 - Robinson UD10 Lamotta
Feb 5 1943 - Lamotta UD10 Robinson
Feb 26 1943 - Robinson UD10 Lamotta
Feb 23 1945 - Robinson UD10 Lamotta
Sept 26 1945 - Robinson SD12 Lamotta
Sept 14 1951 - Robinson TKO13 Lamotta

At least someone knows.

And I think his problem is that he doesn't know everything that encompasses what can be called a signature win.

For example, had John Ruiz managed to beat RJJ it would have been a signature win for Ruiz.

This in spite of the fact that Roy was not in his prime and was not fighting at his so-called "premium weight class".

A signature win is first and foremost a win over a big name. And it doesn't have to have anything to do with what weight the fighters fight at.

Nicholas Walters has a signature win over Nonito Donaire.

It doesn't matter that Nonito's best was at a lower weight or that Donaire may have been slightly out of his prime.

koolkc107 wrote:
We know Cotto was having problems making welter. To make him fight at 145 cannot be called facing him at anything premium. We know Eric Morales was also having problems with weight the 2nd and 3rd fights. DLH may have been at his best at 147, but if you call his match against Pac at his premium weight, then you are only emphasizing your fanboy myopia.

Reread my posts above. Where did i say Pacquiao's wins over Oscar or Cotto as a "signature win"? I never, because they weren't.

You want to speak about "fanboy myopia" i would say it's pointing the finger at whatever Pacquiao is doing in an isolated discussion about Mayweather. WTF does Pacquaio have to do with whatever "signature wins" Floyd may or may not have?

WTF both of them have to do with this thread ?

Ricky_ wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:
We know Cotto was having problems making welter. To make him fight at 145 cannot be called facing him at anything premium. We know Eric Morales was also having problems with weight the 2nd and 3rd fights. DLH may have been at his best at 147, but if you call his match against Pac at his premium weight, then you are only emphasizing your fanboy myopia.

Reread my posts above. Where did i say Pacquiao's wins over Oscar or Cotto as a "signature win"? I never, because they weren't.

You want to speak about "fanboy myopia" i would say it's pointing the finger at whatever Pacquiao is doing in an isolated discussion about Mayweather. WTF does Pacquaio have to do with whatever "signature wins" Floyd may or may not have?

I mentioned Pac along other great fighters in an attempt to illustrate that your definition of a signature win (beating a HOF fighter in his prime at his best weight) is one that is way too narrow.

I mentioned some of his biggest signature wins that DID NOT fit your arbitrary benchmarks.

Fanboy indeed.

koolkc107 wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:
We know Cotto was having problems making welter. To make him fight at 145 cannot be called facing him at anything premium. We know Eric Morales was also having problems with weight the 2nd and 3rd fights. DLH may have been at his best at 147, but if you call his match against Pac at his premium weight, then you are only emphasizing your fanboy myopia.

Reread my posts above. Where did i say Pacquiao's wins over Oscar or Cotto as a "signature win"? I never, because they weren't.

You want to speak about "fanboy myopia" i would say it's pointing the finger at whatever Pacquiao is doing in an isolated discussion about Mayweather. WTF does Pacquaio have to do with whatever "signature wins" Floyd may or may not have?

I mentioned Pac along other great fighters in an attempt to illustrate that your definition of a signature win (beating a HOF fighter in his prime at his best weight) is one that is way too narrow.

I mentioned some of his biggest signature wins that DID NOT fit your arbitrary benchmarks.

Fanboy indeed.

Fanboy of who exactly? Narrow, yes, but that's what I class as a signature win. This is elite level. I expect Golovkin to get 1, perhaps Ward. There's no excuse why Floyd shouldn't have got 1, the were there for him to get. Seems to upset you but that's the truth, handle it.