BoxRec

thechump wrote:Khan has had everythin handed to him on a plate since athens,he gets to commonwealth ttle fightin blown up 9st4 fighters and gettin dropped in the process ,gets blown away by prescott then gets a wba title shot?? Then fights salita in one of if not his first defence avoiding maidana then fights maidana and barely made it out of the 12th round,fought an old judah and fair enuff beats him,talks the talk about what he is gonna do to garcia and gets his block knocked right off,looks like he just walkes out the pub on ref cam ha. I dont rate him never have and never will,brook has done everythin on his own with no helping hands to get him ther so imo brook should tell khan that he isnt giving khan the payday. Tell khan to fight rios broner then porter and if he gets through these fights then they can sit down and talk about the fight. Brook ahould make his own path for his legacy and leave khan with his head in the clouds,khan thinks he is in the elite fighters in the world,he does my head in

Come on mate give credit where credit is due. Khan does day some silly things but career wise he's fought:

- Malignaggi (prime version)
- Maidana
- Kotelnik (very underrated; beat Maidana, robbed against Alexander)
- Devon Alexander (total domination of a former unified champion in his prime)
- Collazo (51% of a poll of 178 people on boxrec picked Collazo to win)
- Peterson (I had him winning that fight)
- Garcia (yes a loss but he still got in the ring with him) whose gone on to cement his place as the top 140lber by beating Matthysse

Notables Brook has fought:

- Porter; great performance/win
- Carson Jones - fringe contender at best
- Senchenko who is really a European level fighter whose best win was a shot Ricky Hatton


I want to see the fight but in terms of careers, Khan's resume is much better regardless of whether he currently holds a belt or not. Brook has only been in one fight where he wasn't an overwhelming favorite.

We all know matchmaking is part of the game but has there ever been a more transparent case than Amir Khan?

Maybe it's emphasized by the fact he's matchmade to avoid pressure punchers in a weight range that has so many.

I mean i don't blame his management team so much, what would you do if the choice was:


Big Wembley World Title Fight vs Brook:

+ World Title on the line
+ A win probably means a Pacquioa or Floyd fight
+ A win means recognised as the best in the division behind the 2 above mentioned
+ A win means even more hype
+ The A-side on a massive payday
- Kell Brook probably knocks him out
- A KO loss firmly places his career in the dazzling gatekeeper bracket.


A fight vs Algieri:

+ Can look good, wins every round with ease
+ No chance of being knocked out
+ A stoppage would get one over on Pacquiao who went the distance with Algieri
+ another win, keeping him warm for the Floyd or Pac fight
- Not a win of note
- No titles, Algieri coming off a defeat
- True fans recognise the matchmaking, call him a coward/ducker
- Makes far less green than big PPV vs Brook



To me it's a no brainer if you're employed by Khan to manage him, you take the Algieri fight and hope to get the winner of May/PAc, and hope plan B (Brook) holds his title for as long as possible to keep that option there.

thechump wrote:Then fights salita in one of if not his first defence avoiding maidana then fights maidana and barely made it out of the 12th round

I think if the Pacquiao - Mayweather fight is remotely competitive, they'll do it again, leaving Khan frozen out.

Khan needs to get on with own career instead of chasing a fight that may never happen. I could see both Manny and Floyd retiring by year end.

black panther wrote:I think if the Pacquiao - Mayweather fight is remotely competitive, they'll do it again, leaving Khan frozen out.

Khan needs to get on with own career instead of chasing a fight that may never happen. I could see both Manny and Floyd retiring by year end.

Khan might as well wait a few weeks to see what happens in the Mayweather/Pac fight, although in reality now that they are finally getting it on this could turn into a 2 or possibly 3 fight series between these two.

thechump wrote:Khan has had everythin handed to him on a plate since athens,he gets to commonwealth ttle fightin blown up 9st4 fighters and gettin dropped in the process ,gets blown away by prescott then gets a wba title shot?? Then fights salita in one of if not his first defence avoiding maidana then fights maidana and barely made it out of the 12th round,fought an old judah and fair enuff beats him,talks the talk about what he is gonna do to garcia and gets his block knocked right off,looks like he just walkes out the pub on ref cam ha. I dont rate him never have and never will,brook has done everythin on his own with no helping hands to get him ther so imo brook should tell khan that he isnt giving khan the payday. Tell khan to fight rios broner then porter and if he gets through these fights then they can sit down and talk about the fight. Brook ahould make his own path for his legacy and leave khan with his head in the clouds,khan thinks he is in the elite fighters in the world,he does my head in

What a load of bollocks.

Khan avoided Maidana, then fought him, so he didn't avoid him then did he and he beat him, if you want to play the scraped through card then Brook barely made it through the last 6 rounds against Jones.

You can't complain about Khan's Commonwealth title reign without looking at Brook's defences of the British title, he was gifted the belt when McIntyre was stripped through no fault of his own and was then given one of the easiest routes to a Lonsdale belt in history.

Khan has had it easy and Brook has done it the hard way? Neither had a particularly difficult route to a world title, both fought average champions and had easy first defences. Khan then went onto fight the best in the division, unify and went into Peterson's backyard when he had no need to and paid for it. Brook may well do similar, but he hasn't actually done any of that yet.

Brook would be giving Khan the payday Khan can make more fighting the likes of Alexander and Collazo on undercards, or in a half empty MGM Grand than Brook can make defending his title in Sheffield, Khan is a far bigger name than Brook is, both here and in America.

Khan should fight Rios, Broner and Porter, just to be able to fight Brook. Kell has beaten one opponent at that sort of level, Khan has beaten several, albeit mostly at 10st.

'khan thinks he is in the elite fighters in the world' And Brook doesn't? He's doing no different to Khan, trying to talk his way into a Mayweather/Pacquiao fight without beating anyone and trying to claim he's at the same level as fighters like them.

I'm pretty sure Dmitry Salita was a mandatory too, as daft as that looks in hindsight.

SNG wrote:I'm pretty sure Dmitry Salita was a mandatory too, as daft as that looks in hindsight.

Just checked, Salita was somehow mandatory for the title, so Khan gets a pass for that one.

expe wrote:
Khan has had it easy and Brook has done it the hard way? Neither had a particularly difficult route to a world title, both fought average champions and had easy first defences. Khan then went onto fight the best in the division, unify and went into Peterson's backyard when he had no need to and paid for it. Brook may well do similar, but he hasn't actually done any of that yet.

Brook would be giving Khan the payday Khan can make more fighting the likes of Alexander and Collazo on undercards, or in a half empty MGM Grand than Brook can make defending his title in Sheffield, Khan is a far bigger name than Brook is, both here and in America.

Yep, I agree with this.

It seems that the days of "doing it the hard way" are over - it seems that boxers fall into one of 2 broad camps, they are either given a lot of opportunities and well managed or they don't seem to get a break.

Unfortunately at the moment it seems unlikely that we will see the likes of a Dennis Andries coming through.

bripez wrote:

expe wrote:
Khan has had it easy and Brook has done it the hard way? Neither had a particularly difficult route to a world title, both fought average champions and had easy first defences. Khan then went onto fight the best in the division, unify and went into Peterson's backyard when he had no need to and paid for it. Brook may well do similar, but he hasn't actually done any of that yet.

Brook would be giving Khan the payday Khan can make more fighting the likes of Alexander and Collazo on undercards, or in a half empty MGM Grand than Brook can make defending his title in Sheffield, Khan is a far bigger name than Brook is, both here and in America.

Yep, I agree with this.

It seems that the days of "doing it the hard way" are over - it seems that boxers fall into one of 2 broad camps, they are either given a lot of opportunities and well managed or they don't seem to get a break.

Unfortunately at the moment it seems unlikely that we will see the likes of a Dennis Andries coming through.

Hopefully Ovill can provide that, I can't see him going on the sort of run Andries did before he fought for a world title, but if he was to get a world title fight, undeserving as he is, I'd love to see him win it after spending his career on the road.

I actually think both Khan and Brook make valid points in their argument...... When Brook fought Porter, Khan had not done much at 147 and was in need of a fight, any type of fight to propel himself at 147.... Brook won the title (in a relatively close one, lets not forget).... all of a sudden Brook was in pole position and it was Khan who needed him.

Then, sadly, Brook got stabbed and was out of action - Khan in the interim period outclasses a very credible ex champion, who was still a half decent name in the states and at his peak age wise.... from that one performance all of a sudden Khan, even as a non-champion. was considered one of the only viable 147 threat to Mayweather and Pacquiao in many ways an "uncrowned champion"... it was as if that one performance, even though it was a non-title fight but him in a position to get mega pay days and then you could see why can might not risk this vs Brook and just wait to fight Pac/Mayweather in the winter.... not only was it the promoters talking, but boxing experts and pundits were giving him very realistic chance at beating them - so not just the money but the legacy it could hold would be unreal.

Brook, even as a champion, is kind of in the same standing as fighters like Andre Berto - probably needs one more solid win to get into the mainstream boxing thoughts about the most credible 147 fighrers. Like Berto, he is in a position now to probably get that meaningful win and then can campaign not just for Khan but seriously for Mayweather/Pacquiao. Before the stabbing I would say Khan/Brook were on a par in terms of standing - outside chance of getting a shot at May/Pac but not given a realistic chance with the stateside public. Post stabbing though, Khan has had the one meaningful that has put him that notch above - now he is probably the favourite to get a shot at the Pac/Floyd winner. So I can see the frustrations of both and see both point of view.

Terry Dooley wrote:

freddydoesdallas wrote:Who really makes the huge purses fighting in Vegas though? Khan isn't going to bring floods of fans who will hammer the town like the crowds who went out for Hatton. He's not a massive name who will get Americans to leave their towns to get a weekend in Vegas and people generally won't change their habits to watch him.

He's an exciting fighter to watch but his purses have been rumoured to be around $1-2m and even in a best case scenario against Mayweather or Pacquiao next time out he's not in a position to be making purse demands. He would make more against Brook as he will get a bigger share of the total income

As mad as it seems to us, the casinos don't rely on big crowds. It was nice for them that Hatton brought a load of people over, as it provides colour for the broadcast, but the bean counters don't factor in 2000 or more Brits then come to a figure. We're obsessed with big crowds over here, probably because we're extremely tribal, but if it was all about bums on seats then DeGale would be contesting a world title at London's O2 on Sky PPV instead of fighting Dirrell in the U.S.

Yes, someone might say that Haymon's got very deep pockets, but Hearn sells out shows so it shows that the power brokers across the pond wield more power. If they want a fight they tend to get it.

That’s why we rarely get big-name fighters over here, they can earn more elsewhere.

As someone mentioned, Khan can tick over and might get the winner of the big one, which will be a bigger fight and earn him more.

Speaking as a fan, I'd like to see it in the summer in Sheffield.

Yes I'm no expert but major fights in Vegas do pretty small numbers in terms of live attendance but in terms of revenue they generate a lot more than most "big fights" over here.

Advertisements, site fees and TV deals must generate much more money. Interested to know more if someone is more clued up than I.

expe wrote: Brook would be giving Khan the payday Khan can make more fighting the likes of Alexander and Collazo on undercards, or in a half empty MGM Grand than Brook can make defending his title in Sheffield, Khan is a far bigger name than Brook is, both here and in America.

What did Maidana make for 2 fights with Mayweather? Both purses combined I reckon would be about the same as what Groves made in the Wembley fight, never mind Froch's Wembley purse.


Khan vs Brook backed by Sky BoxOffice at Wembley trumps whatever Khan can make elsewhere.

black panther wrote:

Terry Dooley wrote:

freddydoesdallas wrote:Who really makes the huge purses fighting in Vegas though? Khan isn't going to bring floods of fans who will hammer the town like the crowds who went out for Hatton. He's not a massive name who will get Americans to leave their towns to get a weekend in Vegas and people generally won't change their habits to watch him.

He's an exciting fighter to watch but his purses have been rumoured to be around $1-2m and even in a best case scenario against Mayweather or Pacquiao next time out he's not in a position to be making purse demands. He would make more against Brook as he will get a bigger share of the total income

As mad as it seems to us, the casinos don't rely on big crowds. It was nice for them that Hatton brought a load of people over, as it provides colour for the broadcast, but the bean counters don't factor in 2000 or more Brits then come to a figure. We're obsessed with big crowds over here, probably because we're extremely tribal, but if it was all about bums on seats then DeGale would be contesting a world title at London's O2 on Sky PPV instead of fighting Dirrell in the U.S.

Yes, someone might say that Haymon's got very deep pockets, but Hearn sells out shows so it shows that the power brokers across the pond wield more power. If they want a fight they tend to get it.

That’s why we rarely get big-name fighters over here, they can earn more elsewhere.

As someone mentioned, Khan can tick over and might get the winner of the big one, which will be a bigger fight and earn him more.

Speaking as a fan, I'd like to see it in the summer in Sheffield.

Yes I'm no expert but major fights in Vegas do pretty small numbers in terms of live attendance but in terms of revenue they generate a lot more than most "big fights" over here.

Advertisements, site fees and TV deals must generate much more money. Interested to know more if someone is more clued up than I.

major fights get all types of cash but i was more thinking of the type of fights Khan has been involved in ie not major fights recently. I can't imagine he's bringing in more than the $1-2m i mentioned earlier.

Plus, he's not going to get to face the winner of mayweather v Pacquiao. They are splitting a huge purse so will either rematch or bow out

I don't agree with him, but Amir does have a point though. Brook's only had two fights at World Level - edging a points win against Porter and a credible mando defense against a fighter, who I wouldn't rate as "World Class".


That being said, unless Amir gets someone like Tom Bradley or Juan Manuel Marquez - then he should really be looking at Kell Brook. There really aren't that many fights for him out there who could earn him the same amount of money.

rossij8 wrote:If he fights Brook and loses. game over

If he fights Pac/FM and loses well, can still fight Brook

If he fights Brook and wins he gets loads of money the remaining world title which the winner of Floyd v Manny doesn't have and becomes unavoidable for the winner

I think it's is quite obvious he is ducking Kell something I didn't think He would do.

Disappointing

Naandrew wrote:

rossij8 wrote:If he fights Brook and loses. game over

If he fights Pac/FM and loses well, can still fight Brook

If he fights Brook and wins he gets loads of money the remaining world title which the winner of Floyd v Manny doesn't have and becomes unavoidable for the winner

I think it's is quite obvious he is ducking Kell something I didn't think He would do.

Disappointing

And if he fights Brook and loses, where does he go? The fight gives him a payday, but winning doesn't do a lot for him, it doesn't guarantee him a Mayweather/Pacquiao fight, neither are really interested in belts at this stage and Brook isn't a big name in the US, he can make good money without a belt in America and it doesn't open up any fights that weren't previously available.

SNG wrote:

thechump wrote:Then fights salita in one of if not his first defence avoiding maidana then fights maidana and barely made it out of the 12th round

[quote="black panther"]I think if the Pacquiao - Mayweather fight is remotely competitive, they'll do it again, leaving Khan frozen out.

Khan needs to get on with own career instead of chasing a fight that may never happen. I could see both Manny and Floyd retiring by year end.[/quote]


I think they will fight again September whatever the outcome on May 2nd,too many Dollars to be made,Khan won't get a sniff at either fighter,and as for Brook disrespecting him,that's a laugh,who had Khan beat before he got a shot at what Khan called 'the worst champion around',Kotelnik,apart from a dodgy cut stoppage against Barera,he had feasted on ex featherweights or superfeatherweights.There can't be many fighters around who refuse a title challenge for the reasons Khan is coming out with,as far as i can see he's worried about getting chinned,simple as that,no other reason makes sense.

expe wrote: Realistically there's no possibility of him fighting Brook this year, unless they do it indoors in October, the stabbing and the return being pushed back 3 weeks from March 7th have pretty much ruled it out.

I don't understand why there's no possibility of him earning a career-high purse on July 13.

Pugilist-specialist wrote:

expe wrote: Realistically there's no possibility of him fighting Brook this year, unless they do it indoors in October, the stabbing and the return being pushed back 3 weeks from March 7th have pretty much ruled it out.

I don't understand why there's no possibility of him earning a career-high purse on July 13.

Guessing you mean June 13th. There's just under 11 weeks between now and then, in that time Brook needs to rest and begin training for the fight and a deal needs to be agreed. I can't see Kell's team wanting a shortened camp for a fight like this and I don't think the negotiations would move quickly either, both teams are on opposite sides of the Atlantic, Khan's got a big ego and will make big demands, the same can be said for Hearn. I just can't see everything being sorted in time for the fight to take place and Ramadan starts after that so they couldn't do it any later, Khan will want to box before then and there's easier fights to make for him, while the Brook fight will be waiting when he returns in the autumn or next summer.

expe wrote:

Pugilist-specialist wrote:

expe wrote: Realistically there's no possibility of him fighting Brook this year, unless they do it indoors in October, the stabbing and the return being pushed back 3 weeks from March 7th have pretty much ruled it out.

I don't understand why there's no possibility of him earning a career-high purse on July 13.

Guessing you mean June 13th. There's just under 11 weeks between now and then, in that time Brook needs to rest and begin training for the fight and a deal needs to be agreed. I can't see Kell's team wanting a shortened camp for a fight like this and I don't think the negotiations would move quickly either, both teams are on opposite sides of the Atlantic, Khan's got a big ego and will make big demands, the same can be said for Hearn. I just can't see everything being sorted in time for the fight to take place and Ramadan starts after that so they couldn't do it any later, Khan will want to box before then and there's easier fights to make for him, while the Brook fight will be waiting when he returns in the autumn or next summer.

Sorry, I did mean 13th June. Hearn has the stadium booked and Brook is pleading for the fight. Khan's in training already and hasn't got an opponent. IMHO the challenger doesn't want it.

Crease wrote:I don't agree with him, but Amir does have a point though. Brook's only had two fights at World Level - edging a points win against Porter and a credible mando defense against a fighter, who I wouldn't rate as "World Class".


That being said, unless Amir gets someone like Tom Bradley or Juan Manuel Marquez - then he should really be looking at Kell Brook. There really aren't that many fights for him out there who could earn him the same amount of money.

Yeah.

I think Khan beats Brook as well, so I don't really see what the big deal is. It would make him money, and get him a title. There are worse keeping busy fights.

Breaking news : Amir saying no but trying to save face :

http://www1.skysports.com/boxing/news/1 ... at-wembley

The four leading contenders for that fight are former three-time world champion Adrian Broner, WBA welterweight champion Keith Thurman, Manny Pacquiao’s last opponent Chris Algieri and current WBC middleweight champion Miguel Cotto.

Only Thurman & Cotto would be acceptable alternatives to Brook. Can't see Cotto going below 154lbs though