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Re: Where does Mayweather sit in the all time list
Posted: 03 May 2015, 19:24
by tiny_acres
ldlamb wrote:fergusg wrote:ldlamb wrote:Look, Floyd is a great boxer and has been able to run up an incredible record against thus era. That is undeniable.
But, to be discussed as the best of the best, you need to be able to be a masterful boxer AND be able to finish people. Floyd hasnt had a legit finish in almost 8 years.
The ability to "finish" people is not a prerequisite of greatness.
If you believe it is, then quantify your claim with five examples?
Just in the Welterweight division
Ray Robinson, Ray Leonard, Jose Napoles, and younger Tommy Hearns were all stellar boxers, who also accumulated stoppages.
Ray Leonard is probably the best, somewhat recent example.
He hurt and stopped Benitez, Hearns, Kalule. He was abke to finish a much bugger man in Lalonde. Admittedly, he never came close to hurting Hagler, but he was far more offensive in that fight than Floyd normally is.
You can be a great basketball player if you are all offense or an incredible defender, but to be one of the best of all time, (like a Jordan or Bryant or Chamberlain) you've got to do both.
Same with boxing.
So according to you Pep. Whitaker and the immortal Harry Greb do not deserve to be on an all time great list because each one has a lower knock out percentage than Mayweather
Re: Where does Mayweather sit in the all time list
Posted: 03 May 2015, 19:26
by jezzamundo
The reason Mayweather probably shouldn't crack the top 20 isn't because of his lack of KOs, it because of his resume and the number of close fights he's had with good but not great opposition. He's an ATG and one of the best 130lb fighters ever, but he's not an all time top 10 welterweight.
Re: Where does Mayweather sit in the all time list
Posted: 03 May 2015, 19:28
by ldlamb
No one is saying that,but when people are close, that is a tie breaker.
Being "great" is about winning.
Being One of the "greatest" is about more than that.
Sorry you dont understand that.
Re: Where does Mayweather sit in the all time list
Posted: 03 May 2015, 19:33
by tiny_acres
ldlamb wrote:No one is saying that,but when people are close, that is a tie breaker.
Being "great" is about winning.
Being One of the "greatest" is about more than that.
Sorry you dont understand that.
I have listed 3 fighters with lower knock out percentage. You said it takes more than skill to be an all time great. It takes knock out power.
I am just curious how you would rate these 3 fighters who were not knock out artists. They were master boxers. Where do you rank them then?
Re: Where does Mayweather sit in the all time list
Posted: 03 May 2015, 19:39
by NateJR
kidbazooka1 wrote:This fight imo hurt Floyds standing he didn't have to stink the joint out as bad as he did.
Its hilarious cuz Floyd has to be hands down the most selfish boxer of all time he truly doesnt give a fuuck about his own fans. Its all about him which hes even mentioned several times.
He put himself into the pro ranks to obviously win but also entertain, he's been horrible at it and the saddest part of it is he doesnt have to be he's skilled enough to win excitingly alotta the times.
This fight was so huge yet such a let down to the whole boxing world. This fight will hurt our sport big time for the next few yrs just wait and see.
By what I've seen floyd fans (myself included) are prettty happy and impressed with what Floyd was able to do to Pacquiao and make it look easy at times. Floyd seemed pretty happy with himself as well nd most boxing experts and boxers (short of Mike Tyson, Pacquiao and DLH) were pretty impressed with how Floyd handle his so called boogie man. But you're probably right, Floyd doesn't care if he appeases the hater.. Floyd did what he always does. lmao
Re: Where does Mayweather sit in the all time list
Posted: 03 May 2015, 19:45
by ldlamb
tiny_acres wrote:ldlamb wrote:No one is saying that,but when people are close, that is a tie breaker.
Being "great" is about winning.
Being One of the "greatest" is about more than that.
Sorry you dont understand that.
I have listed 3 fighters with lower knock out percentage. You said it takes more than skill to be an all time great. It takes knock out power.
I am just curious how you would rate these 3 fighters who were not knock out artists. They were master boxers. Where do you rank them then?
Leonard landed 150 more punches against Hagler, than Mayweather landed on a smaller guy last night. That wasn't knockout power but it was a well-rounded fight.
I am not going to figure out where I think Harry Greb lands on the all time list for his division. Whitaker falls behind Armstrong and Duran for this reason
I will just reiterate that to be the "best ever" you need to be able to do the things that other contenders for that moniker could do.
Re: Where does Mayweather sit in the all time list
Posted: 03 May 2015, 21:10
by dempseyfire
fergusg wrote:dempseyfire wrote:Top 40. And don't tell me I'm be revisionist when I say last night didn't affect his legacy too much. I've been saying Pac's been slipping considerably since 2011.
Rather than plucking a random number out of thin air, name the forty fighters with a greater legacy than Floyd Mayweather?
We did top 100 lb for lbs on the BOTP several years back. Go search for what I listed.
Re: Where does Mayweather sit in the all time list
Posted: 03 May 2015, 21:14
by KBB
The sad and unfair thing is this; if Manny had won the same people that are here saying Floyd doesn't belong would be here wienie roasting Pac's sack and saying how he deserves to be amongst the Top 5 or Top 10.
Re: Where does Mayweather sit in the all time list
Posted: 03 May 2015, 21:20
by tiny_acres
KBB wrote:The sad and unfair thing is this; if Manny had won the same people that are here saying Floyd doesn't belong would be here wienie roasting Pac's sack and saying how he deserves to be amongst the Top 5 or Top 10.
You sir are 100% correct! !!!
Re: Where does Mayweather sit in the all time list
Posted: 03 May 2015, 21:24
by MP
KBB wrote:The sad and unfair thing is this; if Manny had won the same people that are here saying Floyd doesn't belong would be here wienie roasting Pac's sack and saying how he deserves to be amongst the Top 5 or Top 10.
Absolutely not. The fight also showed that Pac is not top 10 relevant.
If the fight happened exactly as it happened, but the judges gave it to Pac, I would be saying the same thing about him. To be great, you have to show greatness on the greatest stage! Neither did that.