BoxRec

Do any of you lot have the slightest idea how this Boxing Business works?

The facts are there to see, Warren delivers now and he alway's has done. The others simply don't. Sure, Hearn delivered Chi for Brodie via a purse offer and he lost twice, smashed up infront of less than 4k people, was that good business? I think not. What they gonna do with Brodie now, how much did they lose cos Brodie was not good enough? Clinton Woods is finished and Howard Eastman won't see a world title fight whilst he has a hole in his arse and remember he's been Number one longer than Brian Adams!

Do you really think that these fights don't happen because the Promoters don't want them to? They are lucrative fights and big events. I don't suppose you have thought that it may be the ridiculous demands or hidden agendas of the Boxers that prevent them from happening. Do they really want to fight each other, do they, are you positive?

Audley, Witter, Eastman, Woods and the Rest of them on one show couldn't attract fly's to shit yet talk telephone numbers and blame everyone for the fights not happening It's basic business sense that if the figures don't match the fights can't happen. The Promoter remember is putting his money up and taking all the financial risks. The fighters are guaranteed their cash, so play fair.

Hers's and idea, why don't all you lot club together and have a go yourselves, yopu may even get an insight to the real world and then you might stop blowing smoke out your arses all day on this site.

Warren has delivered the biggest fights in the last fifteen years consistantly, Benn, Eubank, Bruno, Hamed, Tyson, Collins all prospered under Warren and whilst the WBO and WBU may not be everyone's cup of tea, have they ever been busted by the FBI, convicted of ratings fraud and corruption or worse still fucked a fighter out of his title simply to kiss Roy Jones' arse. Perhaps FW doesn't want to play that crooked game and the should be applauded for that at least.

Ask the fighters who the best Promter is, get your answers from those who know. It will be Warren, Hearn 1 and 2 and the rest wil come nowhere. Waterman, Hennesey, Lion, A-Force (remember multi-millionaire's Levitt and Panos? - both gone!) will be forgotten in ten years time the same as an endless list of other wanabees who thought it was easy from the outside until they came in and went skint.

Witter doesn't draw? Yeah, by himself but if he fought Hatton it would be massive and stop people getting at FW for protecting Hatton for at least a while. Frank doesn't want that fight because plain and simple theirs a risk Witter would spark Ricky. Just a risk though, Ricky would be favourite. He's talking about matching Ricky with Paul Spadafora next whose a career lightweight who has never actually beaten anyone himself. He can't punch either so where's the risk? Ricky will walk through him and everyone knows it.

Frank brings over these mystery South Americans and Eastern Europeans because he won't have to pay them much. He must rake in tons from the gate plus the Sky money and sponsers. Why not put some of the cash from the many many big Hatton fights towards a big name? Shit, he owes it to the fans surely after the support they give Ricky.

Whats Warren say the worlds 3rd biggest promoter and im sure ive heard him announced as Europe's biggest promoter. All the fans are asking for is for Witter or Vivian Harris next? Is that too much to ask of the worlds 3rd biggest promoter. Both guys are not superstars who demand top dollar. They both have no real place to go? Vivian Harris said his options are Hatton or a rematch with Urkal in Germany. He stated he wants the Hatton fight BAD. After all imo its an easier fight for him than another dangerous trip to Germany what with the judges reputation over their and fighting a very slick fighter in Urkal. I watched that Urkal vs Harris fight Urkal draws no-where near the amount of fans that Hatton does. Harris also now holds the full WBA title now that Tszyu was stripped for inactivity. Thats a very prestigious fight against a good champion who's prepared to take a risk as he demonstrated last time out.

Whys the Harris fight not being made? It just doesn't cut it to blame it on money in this instance. They don't want to fight him because Frank considers Harris to big a risk for Ricky. He doesn't really believe Hatton can beat Harris. Why not take a risk? A loss would not be the end of the world. All the superstars in boxing currently have at least one loss excluding Floyd Mayweather. Rickys fans are not going to abandon him after one loss. He would gain so much credibility if he took a risk against a dangerous fighter at the top of his game like Harris. Or even Witter. Just make the fights. Cotto is absolutely putting Ricky to shame with his progress.

Heres an interesting link also which I think demonstrates Franks "attempt" at making a fight with Vivian Harris.
http://www.secondsout.com/UK/news.cfm?ccs=228&cs=13661

Frank wouldn't dream of putting Ricky in with a guy who's a legitimate threat and at the top of his game like Harris.

In the UK, Frank is like a big fish in a small pond, likewise on the world scene the roles are reversed. He's a minnow on the world scene.

It's alright criticising all the other promoters, but they don't have a lucrative SKY tv deal in their pocket. I am sure if they did, we would see fight's and fighter's of a higher standard than most of what we see on a typical SN show these days.

So aye, Frank does deliver, he just doesn't deliver to a very high standard.

Another choice quote from Frank.

Audley has peddled a series of stiffs as top-of-the-bill fare, and the BBC have failed to exercise any form of quality control.

Again replace the word's Audley with SN, and BBC with SKY.

And people come on this forum i.e xtremebox, and say we are blinkered!

"But in the three years the BBC have screened boxing, they have failed to land a significant world title fight involving a British fighter - and served up a diet of run-of-the-mill domestic scraps."

xtremebox - this is what your beloved FW is supposed to have said.

Is it true?
Has FW done any better in the same time?

haha brilliant Extremebox mate you havent set yourself up here,
"quote do any of you know how the boxing business works"
hmmmm while I confess to minimial knowledge I can tell you now YES there are people who intimately know how the boxing business works on here dude...


prepare to go down in flames..mayday mayday

8)

Let me make an analogy if I may.

You talk about how the 'boxing business' works, well, it works like any other business, the measure of success is not the same from a fan's perspective as it is from the people involved in the business, who are the ones who make all the profits. At the end of the day, allegedly makes money and so do his fighters, which is all highly commendable, well done Frank and co, I'm sure you are sitting pretty.

However, I am sure that Steps have sold more records in the past 5 years than Ray Charles (god rest his soul), but I know who I would rather listen to.....

Also, not every fighter in allegedly's stable

As for whether Warren would want to make certain fights happen, don't piss down our backs and tell us it's raining. The fact is, it is much better for Sports Network to keep on filling the MEN arena, where Ricky Hatton's fans will pay to watch him wrestling with a deck chair, than risk spoiling the party by matching him with Vivian Harris, Sharmba Mitchell

Sports Network would undoubtedly make more money with all the options and control of the promotion in the MEN having Hatton fighting against the likes of Vilches, than ceding control and any future options on opponents, and having Hatton travel to America, which is the only way that Hatton will be able to fight any of the bigger names in the division. Sky won't spend the wonga for a PPV staged at 3.am, and Showtime aren't interested in a fight which is on delayed broadcast, as the majority of boxing fans will have seen the result before the fight is broadcast.

Whilst Ricky Hatton and some other fighters have done very well, Jr Witter had to leave to get the fights he wanted, and Audley now finds himself in the wilderness as a result of allegedly's determination to prevent him going it alone.

Now, I am not saying that allegedly is the only person who would do the same in his position, but as top dog in the fight game, he has more control of the scene than anyone, and some of his moves do seem to be stifling the level of competition which we get in this country.

In answer to your question, PLENTY of people here have more than a smattering of how the boxing business works, in fact some of the people here are involved in it themselves.


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HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM...HOUSTON HOUSTON COME IN HOUSTON.................................

Is Extrembox trying to "educate the masses"?
I wonder

I've just caught a few "adios'" on his thread replies 8)

maybe he is or maybe he isn't

whatever...Welcome to the forum extremebox

Warren gets consistently panned on here, some of it justified, some of it not. I don't quite agree with xtremebox in that the promoters always want the big fights to happen whilst the fighters don't. The converse applies, in fact. Most fighters worthy of the name would be happy to fight anyone but the promoters frequently seeing a "golden goose" in the shape of a Ricky Hatton, for example, don't want to risk losing it by throwing him in with someone that threatens to derail the gravy train.

All promoters must be guilty of that and they'll try to get away with prolonging their star attraction's career and their own income as long as possible. Name me a promoter that isn't concerned with safeguarding their income...

It may not make for thrill-a-minute fights week in week out but in fairness to allegedly, he has delivered Tyson to these shores on two occasions and also brought over Barrera and Vitali Klitschko.

In the last couple of years, however, the product delivered hasn't been too great and since Richard Maynard or whoever browse these pages from time to time, let's hope the message is taken on board.

That's why I said that it is maybe naive to assume that any other promoter in the position of allegedly would do things differently in his shoes.

The lesser promoters, whose shows are less well attended, are perhaps forced to make more competitive matchups to try and steal a march, this isn't about panning Warren. The fact is though, as the most successful promoter, he is going to get the most crticism.

Promoters first obligation is to their own pockets, then to their fighters, with generally fans coming a poor third, but it's the poor shmos who turn out at the MEN and who pay over the odds for shows on Sky that pay everybodies wages, and they deserve to be entertained.

Some responsibility has to fall on the fighters too to force their promoters to get proper matchups.

i think thats a reasonable take mate, I do think sometimes he does get grief thats OTT, but you cant help be frustrated as a fan when you go to support the shows, and they get delayed or in Calzaghe's case cancelled, when you have made arrangements and this and that, while not being SN's fault in may cases.
Then people are gonna make out of order comments sometimes. In some cases what is being promised and what is being delivered are two different things. Was I angry yes of course, Im a human being, as Frank was also angry on Sky at the criticism he saw as unfair.
So thats the fans and the promoter angry and I think the main reason is a frustration thats born out of many things that we arent privvy to, then the fans are frustrated as they dont get the while story....so everyone is angry and frustrated.
The other thing is Frank is the best promoter out there, i.e. he has the biggest stable the most power and the biggest ability to do something about it so sometimes the frustration comes out against those with the most power.
Now you can understand mitigating circumstances in many cases but this is now two shows for whatever reasons that have gone tits up, I had tickets to both and only made one and that wasnt the shecduled opponent and for days beofre the fight we didnt know if it was gonna be on, in the second case it was delayed and I just went bollocks Im not going as on hols anyway but I wouldnt have gone anyewauy after it was delayed as already you could it was going pear shaped.
While pinto may have been to blame in this first instance you then have to ask the question ok, we have the pedersen fight which still made plenty of dough even though it wasnt the superfight we hoped for it was good fun, what you expect next then is a decent named opponent, you made the money out the last show to maybe bankroll this one a bit, I mean someone like Weiss would have been better than Vilches I think. He wouldnt have cost the earth and is a proven decent top 15/20 fighter, it would have showed willing in difficult circumstances. Instead of the super show of JC vs GJ and hatton Vs a top ten ranked light welter, we got errrr Carlos Vilches....not exactly what was promised, so while there are two sides to every coin, some constructive criticism is most definitely due.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:That's why I said that it is maybe naive to assume that any other promoter in the position of allegedly would do things differently in his shoes.

The lesser promoters, whose shows are less well attended, are perhaps forced to make more competitive matchups to try and steal a march, this isn't about panning Warren. The fact is though, as the most successful promoter, he is going to get the most crticism.

Promoters first obligation is to their own pockets, then to their fighters, with generally fans coming a poor third, but it's the poor shmos who turn out at the MEN and who pay over the odds for shows on Sky that pay everybodies wages, and they deserve to be entertained.

Some responsibility has to fall on the fighters too to force their promoters to get proper matchups.

I'll second that.

At the end of the day its the fighter who says yes or no.

buzz wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:That's why I said that it is maybe naive to assume that any other promoter in the position of allegedly would do things differently in his shoes.

The lesser promoters, whose shows are less well attended, are perhaps forced to make more competitive matchups to try and steal a march, this isn't about panning Warren. The fact is though, as the most successful promoter, he is going to get the most crticism.

Promoters first obligation is to their own pockets, then to their fighters, with generally fans coming a poor third, but it's the poor shmos who turn out at the MEN and who pay over the odds for shows on Sky that pay everybodies wages, and they deserve to be entertained.

Some responsibility has to fall on the fighters too to force their promoters to get proper matchups.

I'll second that.

At the end of the day its the fighter who says yes or no.

I'll third it.

Look at the difference between Hatton and Calzaghe. On paper, their careers are looking desperately similar.... but not for long, and certainly not in terms of fan perception.

We all know Hatton is looking for the big fights. He is forcing Warren's hand. Hatton has the heart of a champ and we'll soon find out what he's made of.
Calzaghe on the other hand is a Bum and we all know he's a Bum. He's been happy fighting stiffs, calling out the untouchable, pulling out of 'career defining' fights.

It's basically up to the fighter.

Warren's formula is simple. Deliver the minimum risk fight which keeps his fighter and the punters happy. (by punters I mean people who flood into the MEN, not Internet users; that's business).

It's not too bad a formula. Henessey could do with a similar one rather than ruining Walker with outrageously tough fights that benefitted no-one. The boy has a living to earn.

Warren's not so bad from a purely promoting point of view. He doesn't screw his OWN fighters like Don King and that's a big plus.
But all that doesn't get away from the opinions expressed in this thread that Warren:

a) Can't take criticism
b) Dishes out complete bollocks when talking about rivals (albiet in lawfully tact prose).
c) Makes himself (in my opinion) look like a Complete Dick because of a) and b).

He needs to go on a course to learn how not to make himself look like (in my opinion) a knob all the time. He'd be really popular otherwise. He could hook up with Steve Bunce on this course and they could do lunch or something.

not as bad as the article on roy jones career from a month back.

To answer the question money and inteligence. Warren has been top of the tree in this country at least for 10 or 15 yearsbecause he is a good promoter who is able to send a prospect to the edge of world class pretty quickly. Trouble is thats it, if you use Hamed as an example he got to a certain level wining world championships with Warren in good fights Robinson, Boom Boom Johnson etc. But to get to the next level Hamed left and OK he came up short to Barrera. But at least he fought the best guy in his divison. Now I think that Warrens influence on the world has wanned. Hatton is trying to do the same and if he wants to get to the next level I think he needs to join Main Events or an American promoter who can delivery him the fights.

If Warren doesn't say what you want to hear iyou say it's Bollocks. How has Witter got the fights he wanted by leaving Warren? The Euro fight was won by a purse offer by Midget Mick cos Simon Block for got to tell anyone else the PB's were taking place! Rumour has it it nearly cost him his job.

Personally, I think Witter moved to AVOID the fight he say's he wants - Hatton! He shit a brick and run from Pinto remember and also if if wasn't for the ropes he's still be running from Judah!

I wouldn't want to be in the trenches with Jnr would you?

Adio Amigo's

Chris the fighter wrote:Hatton is trying to do the same and if he wants to get to the next level I think he needs to join Main Events or an American promoter who can delivery him the fights.

101% with you. If Hatton really want the next 5 years of his career involved in genuine world title fights that's the only way to go, I don't think any British promoters can consistently deliver that level.