Posting the same thing again doesn't make it any better this time. Link from NSAC?fergusg wrote: Floyd said his weight was 149lbs and was weighed by the commission (NSAC), as was Pacquiao, who weighed 152lbs:
http://tinyurl.com/px9fb6c
That argument doesn't work at all considering 25 lb as a percentage of body weight is a lot higher for a guy like Gonzalez than it would be for Floyd facing GGG. Although I do agree that Floyd should not feel pressured into taking on GGGfergusg wrote:
If you consider a 25lbs rehydrated weight discrepancy as only “SLIGHT”, then why aren’t you clamouring for Floyd to fight the pound-for-pound rated flyweight king Roman Gonzalez (especially considering the fact that Mayweather rarely fights smaller men than himself)?
It was pretty clear to see Floyd looked smaller than Maidana. That was never in question. I just figured since you have a link for everything and are obsessed with facts you'd have something more than Floyd's words. But it appears you don't. Floyd looked bigger than Pac. That's all we really know.fergusg wrote:What about the 30-day weigh in or Floyd's weight against Maidana? Do I have to keep spamming the post with links, whilst you ignore them?punchoutsb wrote:Posting the same thing again doesn't make it any better this time. Link from NSAC?fergusg wrote: Floyd said his weight was 149lbs and was weighed by the commission (NSAC), as was Pacquiao, who weighed 152lbs:
http://tinyurl.com/px9fb6c
No, I didn't ignore that. But you claimed he weighed 149 on fight night and posted nothing substantial to back that claim.fergusg wrote:The NSAC hasn’t published anything about weights. However, his claim to weighing 149lbs was in line with the rehydrated weights he’s had for other fights. So there's no reason to suspect him of lying. After all, I supplied irrefutable evidence that he only weighed 150.5lbs for the 30-day weigh-in, but you ignored that, didn't you?punchoutsb wrote:It was pretty clear to see Floyd looked smaller than Maidana. That was never in question. I just figured since you have a link for everything and are obsessed with facts you'd have something more than Floyd's words. But it appears you don't. Floyd looked bigger than Pac. That's all we really know.
It’s not as if his physique went through some sort of monumental change between the Maidana & Pacquiao fights, is it?
Live by the facts, die by the factsfergusg wrote:So the 30-day weigh in didn't count?punchoutsb wrote:No, I didn't ignore that. But you claimed he weighed 149 on fight night and posted nothing substantial to back that claim.
I'm not saying Floyd rehydrated up to 170 pounds. I'm just saying he looked at least a divsion bigger than Manny. Do you really think Floyd looked smaller?
You gave me "good stuff" about a previous fight and 30 days. Not the night of as you claimed.fergusg wrote:I gave you good stuff, but you ignore it, because it doesn't concur with your "perception", that's fine by me.c wrote:Live by the facts, die by the facts
Don't claim Floyd weighed 149 without proof.
Agree with most of this except the Cotto rationale, which doesn't take into account one thing: Money.fergusg wrote:Saul ‘Canelo’ Alvarez = It has recently been widely reported by the media that Golden Boy Promotions are preparing to file a lawsuit, with support from the WBO, against Al Haymon and the PBC for breaching the Muhammad Ali Boxing Reform Act, for violating the Anti-Trust Act and for also breaking California’s Unfair Competition laws.
Also, the Mayweather-Alvarez bout only took place less than two years ago and Floyd dominated the stocky ginger-haired Mexican youngster with astonishing ease.
Therefore, in commercial terms, there’s not enough demand to see Floyd grant Canelo a rematch… and I highly doubt that Al Haymon would even consider lining Oscar’s pockets with money that will subsequently be used to fund Golden Boy's lawsuit filed against the PBC and himself! This means that this bout has zero chance of taking place!
Miguel Cotto = From what I recall, Roc Nation provided seemingly generous offers to Al Haymon fighters like Adrien Broner, Keith Thurman, Deontay Wilder and Peter Quillin, which have all been turned down… and all they wanted to do was to promote these men.
It seems that Al Haymon has no intention of assisting Roc Nations' entrance into the sport of boxing, unless he’s allowed to call the shots (especially after the Beyoncé fraudulent accusations debacle).
Another issue, is the fact that it appears that Cotto is affiliated with HBO and it seems that they have only rubber-stamped the Geale fight, with an expectation that he’ll commit to facing Canelo later on this year. And as we all should know by now, unless mega-bucks are involved, Haymon and Showtime don’t work with HBO.
In addition to the commercial issues, Mayweather has already faced Cotto and gained a comfortable decision that was almost certainly not considered controversial in nature.
Therefore, whilst it’s possible for Mayweather to face Cotto again, especially considering the fact that Miguel holds both the WBC and lineal 160lb titles coupled with his PPV popularity, these factors don’t outweigh the other hurdles that are seemingly unsurmountable in nature, which means that the chances of their rematch taking place are slim to none… and slim has just left the building.
Gennady Golovkin = GGG is physically too big and perhaps too young for Floyd. He is also not a marquee name, which means the risk versus return ratio calculates a figure that does not make any business sense whatsoever.
The other issue is the proverbial “road” that must be crossed in order to make this bout happen, because GGG is contractually-tied to HBO and there does not seem to be enough financial demand to warrant Leslie Moonves and Stephen Espinoza to once again open talks with Richard Plepler.
Simply put, Haymon & Showtime aren’t going to establish another partnership with HBO to promote and televise a Mayweather-Golovkin bout, because the pot of money at the end of the rainbow isn’t big enough.
In terms of the remaining fighters on this poll, both Danny Garcia and Amir Khan are “advised” by Al Haymon and aren’t tied to any TV networks. So they’re both serious contenders to face Floyd in September.
That being said, from a commercial perspective alone, coupled with the fact that he’s a fully-fledged welterweight on a good run of form, Khan is probably in a better position than Garcia to be selected as Mayweather’s next opponent… and if I were a betting man, I'd day that Amir will be facing Floyd on Mexican Independence Day weekend in September (assuming the Brit overcomes the moderate challenge posed by Chris Algieri in his next fight).
If Khan cannot make the September date, because Amir may need more than the eight weeks that are available between the end of Ramadan and the 12th September fight date in order to recover and train for the bout, then Keith Thurman may be in contention for Floyd’s next opponent.
However, ‘One Time’ may be deemed undeserving of the opportunity, because he’s relatively anonymous to mainstream fans and he only has one decent name on his resume (he took quite a beating in order to gain a lop-sided decision victory over Robert Guerrero).
Haymon may also prefer to protect the “zero” on Thurman’s record if he considers the talented 'One Time' as a potential marquee PPV-type name of the future. After all, Al is a business man and he has a responsibility and a vested interest to look after his investments.
All of that is well reasoned but since when is the casual fan reasonable?fergusg wrote:You could be right, but the rumour mill seems to be speculating that HBO only allowed Cotto to fight Daniel Geale as long as he promises that his next bout will be against Canelo. This seems to be the easier bout to make, since Cotto & Canelo are both HBO fighters.koolkc107 wrote:Agree with most of this except the Cotto rationale, which doesn't take into account one thing: Money.
It is probably the hugest fight left out there for Floyd, probably even bigger than a Pac rematch.
You could argue Cotto gave Floyd his toughest test in years and at the higher weight, there is a legitimate question as to what would happen.
If Cotto looks impressive his next outing, look for him to feel out Floyd first before signing with Canelo...
...which is exactly why the first negotiation between Canelo and Cotto fell apart.
The thing is… Floyd’s already beaten Cotto and the boxing reasons for the rematch aren’t compelling, as he clearly won the first fight.
A Mayweather-Cotto rematch would be intriguing and probably quite “big” commercially, but perhaps not big enough to overcome the politics (i.e. Showtime/Haymon vs. Roc Nation/HBO).
The question that HBO would probably ask themselves is this… is Mayweather-Cotto II far more than twice as big as Canelo-Cotto? If it isn’t, then it’s not worth HBO’s time, which means that Floyd won’t be engaging in a rematch against the Puerto Rican.
Another question we must all ask ourselves as fans, considering HBO & Showtime’s historical lack of co-operation, is Mayweather-Cotto II on a par with Tyson-Lewis or Mayweather-Pacquiao, because that's the only time that these two networks have worked together for the last twelve years or so? It clearly isn’t and such a bout would almost certainly fail to achieve the 1.5m PPV buy-rate that their first fight achieved, because after all… there’s no disputing who won that contest.
Another important thing to note, is Cotto really that popular? I mean, is he anywhere near as popular as Pacquiao? I believe that he isn’t, since his historical bout against Sergio Martinez only achieved 350K PPV buys.
One final question to consider… would a rematch between Mayweather & Cotto achieve far more than double the figures that fights against the likes of Khan, Thurman or Garcia could achieve? I’d argue that it wouldn’t.
Remember, if Mayweather fights Cotto, the pot of gold at the end of the proverbial rainbow has to be split four ways (i.e. Mayweather Promotions, Showtime, HBO & Roc Nation), whereas Mayweather Promotions & Showtime would retain the lion’s share of the pot for bouts against Khan, Thurman & Garcia.
punchoutsb wrote:No, I didn't ignore that. But you claimed he weighed 149 on fight night and posted nothing substantial to back that claim.
I'm not saying Floyd rehydrated up to 170 pounds. I'm just saying he looked at least a divsion bigger than Manny. Do you really think Floyd looked smaller?
From your top link:KBB wrote:punchoutsb wrote:No, I didn't ignore that. But you claimed he weighed 149 on fight night and posted nothing substantial to back that claim.
I'm not saying Floyd rehydrated up to 170 pounds. I'm just saying he looked at least a divsion bigger than Manny. Do you really think Floyd looked smaller?
Floyd weighed less than Manny on fight night, in fact Packy weighed 152 on the night of his fight with Oscar and Manny even said that he'd be willing to fight Canelo at this same weight.
http://www.fightsaga.com/.../5632-Maywe ... ts-results
http://pacpix.blogspot.com/2008/11/osca ... manny.html
http://www.canelovskirklandtickets.net/ ... ch-weight/
Sorry man, we don't know what Floyd weighed. Again, I'm not saying he re-hydrated like crazy considering he's never apparently done that. All I'm saying he looked much bigger than Pac on fight night, and that ferg shouldn't go against his nature and post claims without facts.Prior to walking in the ring, PacMan had re-hydrated to 152 lbs; Floyd did not step on the scale again.
My point wasn't to necessarily agree or disagree with Ferg, my point was just to show Manny's history and if there's one thing we know about Mayweather is that usually he weighs in at or below the limit and then usually comes in on Fight Night weighing much less than the limit.punchoutsb wrote:Sorry man, we don't know what Floyd weighed. Again, I'm not saying he re-hydrated like crazy considering he's never apparently done that. All I'm saying he looked much bigger than Pac on fight night, and that ferg shouldn't go against his nature and post claims without facts.
KBB wrote:My point wasn't to necessarily agree or disagree with Ferg, my point was just to show Manny's history and if there's one thing we know about Mayweather is that usually he weighs in at or below the limit and then usually comes in on Fight Night weighing much less than the limit.punchoutsb wrote:Sorry man, we don't know what Floyd weighed. Again, I'm not saying he re-hydrated like crazy considering he's never apparently done that. All I'm saying he looked much bigger than Pac on fight night, and that ferg shouldn't go against his nature and post claims without facts.
I honestly cannot say that he weighed more than Manny and neither can you since as you put; without facts. Floyd has always looked bigger than MP to me anyway, he's definitely taller which makes it look even more obvious.
Nothing from Canelo but if he beats Cotto (again) he will gain a title at 160 thus moving up another weight class.Crease wrote:Cotto & Canelo are ridiculous options... What further credibility would Floyd gain by defeating them again?
I would have a huge problem if he does fight Cotto instead of Golovkin. I think he should fight his final fight at 147, end of story.KBB wrote:Nothing from Canelo but if he beats Cotto (again) he will gain a title at 160 thus moving up another weight class.Crease wrote:Cotto & Canelo are ridiculous options... What further credibility would Floyd gain by defeating them again?
See, this is why some posts here get laughed at.klitoris wrote:Why should Golovkin fight Floyd at 154?
Floyd is the 154 pound champion and GGG is the 160 pound champion.
In these cases to be fair you have to take the middle value and fight at a 157 catch-weight.
Even if you say that Floyd never fought as high as 154, by looking at the Cotto fight, Floyd weighed in at 151. Taking the middle value of 151 and 160 would then be 155.5 pound catch-weight.
154 isn't a f*cking catch-weight. 154 is weight class. Floyd is a Super welterweight champion. If they fight at 154 that would mean Golovkin would have to fight fight Floyd at the Super-welterweight class. That's not a catch weight.koolkc107 wrote:See, this is why some posts here get laughed at.klitoris wrote:Why should Golovkin fight Floyd at 154?
Floyd is the 154 pound champion and GGG is the 160 pound champion.
In these cases to be fair you have to take the middle value and fight at a 157 catch-weight.
Even if you say that Floyd never fought as high as 154, by looking at the Cotto fight, Floyd weighed in at 151. Taking the middle value of 151 and 160 would then be 155.5 pound catch-weight.
No disrespect intended, but that is an absurd statement.
Mayweather is a natural welterweight who, 3 times in his career, has fought in the weight class above.
The absolute heaviest he has ever weighed in at is 151.
Yet 157 is "fair" even though GGG has never been more than a pound away from 160 in EVERY ONE OF HIS FIGHTS.
It is so transparent how bad some folks want to see Mayweather lose.
Guess that is why they racked up almost 6 million buys, they thought Pac would be THAT GUY.
Now GGG is the flavor du jour.
If they fight, 154 is a fair catchweight.
If Floyd actually fights Cotto for a middleweight belt in September (as I think he will), we can revisit your logic here.
But right now, it sounds an awful lot like hatin'...IJS
It's a catchweight (and a real weight class) if one guy is naturally 147 and the other 160.klitoris wrote:154 isn't a f*cking catch-weight. 154 is weight class. Floyd is a Super welterweight champion. If they fight at 154 that would mean Golovkin would have to fight fight Floyd at the Super-welterweight class. That's not a catch weight.koolkc107 wrote:See, this is why some posts here get laughed at.klitoris wrote:Why should Golovkin fight Floyd at 154?
Floyd is the 154 pound champion and GGG is the 160 pound champion.
In these cases to be fair you have to take the middle value and fight at a 157 catch-weight.
Even if you say that Floyd never fought as high as 154, by looking at the Cotto fight, Floyd weighed in at 151. Taking the middle value of 151 and 160 would then be 155.5 pound catch-weight.
No disrespect intended, but that is an absurd statement.
Mayweather is a natural welterweight who, 3 times in his career, has fought in the weight class above.
The absolute heaviest he has ever weighed in at is 151.
Yet 157 is "fair" even though GGG has never been more than a pound away from 160 in EVERY ONE OF HIS FIGHTS.
It is so transparent how bad some folks want to see Mayweather lose.
Guess that is why they racked up almost 6 million buys, they thought Pac would be THAT GUY.
Now GGG is the flavor du jour.
If they fight, 154 is a fair catchweight.
If Floyd actually fights Cotto for a middleweight belt in September (as I think he will), we can revisit your logic here.
But right now, it sounds an awful lot like hatin'...IJS
If Floyd fought Cotto at 151, then the lowest GGG should take would be 155.5.
Yet GGG has stated that he is down to go down to 154 anyways:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XShBlk45YY4
How is Golovkin getting A-side treatment, he is the one going down in weight class. Floyd held the Jr. Middleweight Belt for 3 years ffs. Secondly if you want to talk "natural" weights, GGG re-hydrates to about low 170s and Floyd re-hydrates usually to about 150. Maybe even more if we believe Marquez who said Floyd was hitting 160 in their fight.koolkc107 wrote:
It's a catchweight (and a real weight class) if one guy is naturally 147 and the other 160.
Floyd is NOT a Jr. Middleweight.
You saying so is self-serving, inaccurate and a clear indication of you just wanting the B-side in this equation to get A-side treatment.
Floyd is a welterweight who has occasionally challenged himself in the higher weight class.
It IS meeting in the middle (except technically if we apply your logic, the actual middle is 153.5)
punchoutsb wrote:I would have a huge problem if he does fight Cotto instead of Golovkin. I think he should fight his final fight at 147, end of story.KBB wrote:Nothing from Canelo but if he beats Cotto (again) he will gain a title at 160 thus moving up another weight class.Crease wrote:Cotto & Canelo are ridiculous options... What further credibility would Floyd gain by defeating them again?
