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Posted: 23 Jun 2004, 17:48
by neil r
Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:"As far as I am aware causing concussion is not a basic aim. The basic aim of all boxing amateur and pro, is to land punches which score points. There for when judging fights punches which land with deliberate intent to the head are scored just the same as soft jabbing blows to the midriff. this is particularly the case in amateur boxing. landing these punches is a basic skill, where as landing concussive blows can be done by anyone, skillful or not. "
Ok let me put it this way.
-The basic aim of boxing is to land punches which score points (including punches to the head)
-Punches to the head cause concussion to the recipient
-Part of the basic aim of boxing is to cause concussion
"When judging fights punches which land with deliberate intent to the head are scored just the same as soft jabbing blows to the midriff." In my experience, this is not reflected in scorecards, either amateur or professional.
"Concussive blows can be done by anyone, skilful or not." No, they can't.
-The basic aim of boxing is to land punches which score points (including punches to the head)
but also to the front part of the torso and the rib area, which dont cause concussion
-Punches to the head cause concussion to the recipient
-Part of the basic aim of boxing is to cause concussion
no. concussion is the result of one of the basic aims ie landing particular scoring punches. not an aim. we often hear of fighters claiming they dont want to hurt an opponent, and no doubt in the majority of cases this is true. however fighters do get hurt. the important thing here is that it isnt through intenent. it is a result of taking blows to the head that concussion occurs. its not a stated aim
"When judging fights punches which land with deliberate intent to the head are scored just the same as soft jabbing blows to the midriff." In my experience, this is not reflected in scorecards, either amateur or professional.
you are honestly saying that in your experience jabs to the midriff or body shots dont get scored as points?
"Concussive blows can be done by anyone, skilful or not." No, they can't.
the mere fact that anyone is capable of landing a blow to an opponents head regardless of skill and ability proves this is the case. Or are you saying its only the Roy Jones jnrs of this world that are capable of hitting an opponenet in the head?
Ultimately if the basic aim of boxing was to cause concussion then the sport would simply be banned, and quite rightly so. There have been many test cases over the last 100 years or so where boxing has been deamed legal because it is a contest of skills ie landing punches with the designated part of the glove on any of the pre determined target area. The ultimate fact that some of these punches cause concussion isnt in doubt. Theres no argument in that. The point is that the concussion is a result and not an aim of these punches.[/i]
Posted: 23 Jun 2004, 18:27
by dondada
-The basic aim of boxing is to land punches which score points (including punches to the head) "but also to the front part of the torso and the rib area, which dont cause concussion"
You have said "but also" so I assume you agree with the first part.
Punches to the head cause concussion to the recipient.
-Part of the basic aim of boxing is to cause concussion "no. concussion is the result of one of the basic aims"
OK. I'll settle for this. The stated aim of playing football is to win a match. Scoring goals is the result of one of those basic aims.
"When judging fights punches which land with deliberate intent to the head are scored just the same as soft jabbing blows to the midriff." In my experience, this is not reflected in scorecards, either amateur or professional. you are honestly saying that in your experience jabs to the midriff or body shots dont get scored as points?
In my experience 'soft jabbing blows to the midriff' get fornicate all.
"Concussive blows can be done by anyone, skilful or not." No, they can't. the mere fact that anyone is capable of landing a blow to an opponents head regardless of skill and ability proves this is the case. Or are you saying its only the Roy Jones jnrs of this world that are capable of hitting an opponenet in the head?
What I'm simply saying is that not everyone is capable of landing concussive blows on an opponent. If they aren't skilful, they may not be able to, especially when against a tricky opponent.
Posted: 23 Jun 2004, 18:36
by neil r
Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:
OK. I'll settle for this. The stated aim of playing football is to win a match. Scoring goals is the result of one of those basic aims.
i]
correct. and if you score that goal with a header you get a certain amount of concussion from heading the ball. however the aim is to get the object, in this case the ball, in to the net, the target. the fact concussion has been caused is a result but not the aim.
like wise the object in boxing, the fist, is directed towards the target area, ie several areas including the head, the fact concussion has been caused is a result but not the aim.
im not disputing concussion is caused, what i am disputing is your claim that it is an aim.
Posted: 23 Jun 2004, 18:47
by dondada
It's an interesting distinction you make and definitely worth pondering from a philosophical standpoint.
Posted: 23 Jun 2004, 19:23
by xtremebox
Personally, I thought it was too early but better too early than too late. Until any of you have seen an injured fighter lying in hospital with holes in his head I suggest you leave the refs alone and stop bitching.
As Benn once said, buying a ticket does not give you the right to watch someone get damaged.
Mind you, you lot probably don't buy them anyway - too busy on this site talking shite to each other about things you knbow nothing about
Adios.
Posted: 23 Jun 2004, 19:27
by adamiw
xtremebox wrote:Adios.
when you say 'adios', can you actually mean it?
Posted: 24 Jun 2004, 04:44
by J
xtremebox wrote:Personally, I thought it was too early but better too early than too late. Until any of you have seen an injured fighter lying in hospital with holes in his head I suggest you leave the refs alone and stop bitching.
As Benn once said, buying a ticket does not give you the right to watch someone get damaged.
Mind you, you lot probably don't buy them anyway - too busy on this site talking shite to each other about things you knbow nothing about
Adios.
and the wanker of the week award goes to...............