BoxRec

ikorolev wrote:Accomplishments from 5-10 years ago don't matter. If Roman was the same size as Floyd, he would kick his ass. Golovkin would kick Floyd's ass if they met in the middle (at 154). Both Roman an Gennady should be above Floyd.

Tony1244 wrote: Ricky, if you rate Pacquiao over Mayweather now, you are smoking banana peels. If and when Mayweather or Ward ever beat GGG, you'd still rate GGG higher, so for "fans" like yourself, results of bouts are meaningless.

Impractical Poster wrote:

ikorolev wrote:Accomplishments from 5-10 years ago don't matter. If Roman was the same size as Floyd, he would kick his ass. Golovkin would kick Floyd's ass if they met in the middle (at 154). Both Roman an Gennady should be above Floyd.

I understand this train of thought. But, Floyd just beat one of the best boxers in the world. This in itself is more than Gonzo or GGG has done. I can't stand Floyd either, but don't let bias cloud proper reasoning.

Horse wrote:Any top 10 without Mayweather as No. 1 isn't a real list.

Ricky_ wrote:

Tony1244 wrote: Ricky, if you rate Pacquiao over Mayweather now, you are smoking banana peels. If and when Mayweather or Ward ever beat GGG, you'd still rate GGG higher, so for "fans" like yourself, results of bouts are meaningless.

Here comes another Floyd die hard.

If Mayweather beats GGG?! If you think Floyd would ever fight him it's you that smoking strong stuff, "when"... and if you think Floyd could actually beat GGG you're reaching Brut levels of troll.

Interesting point you make about results of bouts being meaningless. Any fight that reaches a final bell is inconclusive. The official result is based upon the subjective opinion of a couple of old guys (sometimes women) sitting ringside. Close and controversial fights are obvious ones to cite. For example who gives any credibility to the official result of Bradley vs Chaves? Do you put Julie Lederman's "official" opinion of 116-112 Chaves ( ), over your own? Most of the time I switch fights off and go to bed before they read the cards out. I really don't care for the opinion of some corrupt old piss-stained geriatric sitting ringside, only mines matters, and i enjoy talking boxing with other fans.

FloydtheDuck wrote:1. floyd

I don't think there's a clear #2

Rigo, ward, ggg, kovalev, Gonzalez, Crawford should be following him no particular order

8. Wlad

Ricky_ wrote:1. Gennady Golovkin
-----------------------
2. Manny Pacquaio
3. Floyd Mayweather
4. Roman Gonzalez
-----------------------
5. Sergey Kovalev
6. Guillermo Rigondeux
7. Miguel Cotto
8. Saul Alvarez
9. Terence Crawford
10. Wladimir Klitchko

Horse wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:1. Gennady Golovkin
-----------------------
2. Manny Pacquaio
3. Floyd Mayweather
4. Roman Gonzalez
-----------------------
5. Sergey Kovalev
6. Guillermo Rigondeux
7. Miguel Cotto
8. Saul Alvarez
9. Terence Crawford
10. Wladimir Klitchko

Is this guy for real?

Horse wrote:neeeeeeeeeeeiiiiiiiiigggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh

ikorolev wrote:I am not agreeing about Manny being above Floyd but I am agreeing about Golovkin being above both of them. Roman and a few others should be too.

Impractical Poster wrote:

ikorolev wrote:I am not agreeing about Manny being above Floyd but I am agreeing about Golovkin being above both of them. Roman and a few others should be too.

What criteria do you use when putting a p4p list together?

ikorolev wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote:

ikorolev wrote:I am not agreeing about Manny being above Floyd but I am agreeing about Golovkin being above both of them. Roman and a few others should be too.

What criteria do you use when putting a p4p list together?

Who beats who if they were of the same weight.

Impractical Poster wrote:

ikorolev wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote: What criteria do you use when putting a p4p list together?

Who beats who if they were of the same weight.

Is Lomenchenko on your top 10 list? I didn't notice a list from you on this thread.

HyacinthusTurnipseed wrote:1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Guillermo Rigondeaux
3. Roman Gonzalez
4. Sergey Kovalev
5. Gennady Golovkin
6. Terence Crawford
7. Manny Pacquiao
8. Naoyo Inoue
9. Juan Francisco Estrada
10. Carl Frampton

Pretty comfortable with 1-7 (and the fact that Ward will slip into the upper half when he fights again and that Froch and M. Garcia would slip into the lower half if they fight again). 8-10 is a little sketchier. Had Estrada in my last one with no reason to take him out but when I thought of Inoue he seemed so obviously better than him that he had to go above. Frampton instead of Walters or Thurman is pure spur-of-the-moment whimsy. Don't rate Canelo or Wlad as highly as some.

ikorolev wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote:

ikorolev wrote:
Who beats who if they were of the same weight.

Is Lomenchenko on your top 10 list? I didn't notice a list from you on this thread.

I am hesitant about Lomachenko only because he has too few professional fights and he doesn't have a good pop. p4p lists are very subjective, so I don't see much value in them.

Ricky_ wrote:Tony,

here's what you're not getting; I completely disregard judges scorecards for all fights, and call them like i see them. Fights that have a final bell are subjective, they are a matter of opinion, they are works of 12 round art to be interpreted by the viewer.

Depends on the fight. Mayweather really did beat Canelo. Mayweather really did beat Marquez.

At least i'm uniform in my approach, most boxing fans are hypocrites in this regard, and i bet you are one of them. You stated above you disagreed with Julie Ledermans outrageous scorecard for Bradley-Chaves. That must be a real mindeff for you since you seem to be one for just accepting "official" results. On one hand i'm sure you believe that Bradley won that fight, and would like to join me in awarding Bradley the victory, but on the other hand, Julie Lederman turned in a card with Chaves the lopsided winner, so what's a Tony to do? It's like a catch22.

I never said I disregarded her card in that fight. I said I disagreed with it. A terrible decision that annoyed me greatly was Briggs vs. Foreman. But I still need to accept the fact that Foreman "lost" that fight. It's like a Supreme Court decision you don't like; you still have to live with it.

You see boxing fan's usually respect judges scorecards & decision results.... but only if they agree with them. That's hypcritical. I score fights myself. If CJ Ross thinks Bradley beat Pacquiao or Canelo drew with Mayweather, then good for her, i don't care. If Moretti and his chums think Floyd won 8 rounds against Maidana 1 then excellent, i'm sure he knows what he likes. If the judges watching Froch vs Groves 1 think Froch was well in front at the time of stoppage, then that's great, good for them, means nothing to me.

Bradley-Pacquiao wasn't the train robbery many thought it was in my opinion. Tom Hauser who is a giant in the sport scored that fight for Bradley. Canelo having a draw with Mayweather was beyond ridiculous.

As for your hyptohetical about Ward vs GGG reaching a final bell, then the same applies. Maybe i'd do what i usually do and flip the channel or head to bed before the read out the subjective opinion of the old dudes with bad eyesight ringside to see who gets to wear the corrupt belts, it doesn't matter to me, I'll score it how I see fit regardless.

Sounds like you've been permanently scarred by some bad decisions. We all have. I hate bad decisions as much as anybody. Interestingly, we as boxing fans can argue till the cows come home which ones are bad decisions and which are subjective and close. Due to boxer's health issues, of course we won't go back to all fights to the finish, even though fans would enjoy the conclusiveness.


No as for fights with a final bell being inconclusive, ofcourse they are inconclusive, because they are settled upon the subjective opinion of other humans sitting watching with no real sense of the fight at all (unless they have sensors telling them how hard shots landed, how much effect they had on a competitors pain receptors?).

I didn't see Frazier-Ali 1 or Hagler-Duran as inconclusive, and they went the distance. Mayweather-Canelo wasn't inconclusive despite CJ Ross' crush.

Do i need to give you an example of inconclusive fights? Why not try Pacquiao vs Marquez 3? Go look up fan scorecards, press scorecards, see just how conclusive that fight was. Fights inside the distance, say, Pac vs Marquez 4, are rather more conclusive, infact, fights inside the distance are the most conclusive result you'll find anywhere in the world of sport. People forget that the very roots of our combat sport is the unwavering objective to render your opponent incapacitated for the count of 10. Not so long ago guys would fight til' there was a winner. It was only when they decided to introduce a time limit for the bout for the safety of the combatants they decided they needed people to judge who got the better of the fight in the allocated time. That always has been, and always will be, an inconclusive, disputed, and subjective opinion.