BoxRec

kidbazooka1 wrote:Chavez is on a comparable level?

Oh cmon who has chavez beaten?

No one whatsoever.

Matthysse has stoppage wins over proven guys like Peterson who he blasted, Soto still the only guy to put him away, Provo of course. And i wont even get into the Judah and Alexander Robberies we been there done that.

Please dont make shiit up saying chavez is comparable to Matthysse just to try and strengthen your argument.

And no one is saying Lucas is some unstoppable machine but neither is Manny not anymore. Lucas power and underrated skills can equal a nightmare for Manny now and Mannys own promoter seems to think the same thats why he wants no part of Lucas for Manny.

He's (Chaves) comparable to Mathysse in that he's comparable. There isn't some huge gulf in ability between the two. If you want to say Chaves is better, fine, I'd agree anyway. But comparable means, you know, it isn't absurd to compare them.

Manny would beat Mathysse badly in my view, as I said way back there. Not for nothing, but I notice you left one name off of Mathysse's record too, Garcia.

He stopped Humberto Soto, great. What that has to do with a hypothetical result against Manny Pacquiao, I haven't the foggiest.

Pacquiao would destroy Mattysse plain and simple. The fight won't happen though so who cares. People act like Mattysse is this defense master, trust me he's no Mayweather or Marquez. Mattysse would be a easy fight for Pacquiao and would have a punchers chance at best and even that's a long shot. Really Pacquiao gets outboxed by the best fighter on the planet Floyd Mayweather and all of a sudden a low end second tier fighter would kick his ass? Where do people come up with this stuff. I'm one of Pacquiaos toughest critics and even I'm not blind enough to think that Mattysse would stand a damn chance in even making the fight competitive in a 12 round affair. 2 totally different class of fighters.

Bobbyptsd wrote:

kidbazooka1 wrote:Chavez is on a comparable level?

Oh cmon who has chavez beaten?

No one whatsoever.

Matthysse has stoppage wins over proven guys like Peterson who he blasted, Soto still the only guy to put him away, Provo of course. And i wont even get into the Judah and Alexander Robberies we been there done that.

Please dont make shiit up saying chavez is comparable to Matthysse just to try and strengthen your argument.

And no one is saying Lucas is some unstoppable machine but neither is Manny not anymore. Lucas power and underrated skills can equal a nightmare for Manny now and Mannys own promoter seems to think the same thats why he wants no part of Lucas for Manny.

He's (Chaves) comparable to Mathysse in that he's comparable. There isn't some huge gulf in ability between the two. If you want to say Chaves is better, fine, I'd agree anyway. But comparable means, you know, it isn't absurd to compare them.

Manny would beat Mathysse badly in my view, as I said way back there. Not for nothing, but I notice you left one name off of Mathysse's record too, Garcia.

He stopped Humberto Soto, great. What that has to do with a hypothetical result against Manny Pacquiao, I haven't the foggiest.

I named guys that matthysse has beaten or ppl felt he beat, Garcia was not one of those guys right?

Some ppls children. DD

And when did I say that Lucas beating soto was related to him being able to beat Manny? Again your making shiit up or inventing things up in your head.

I mentioned Soto, Provodnikov, Peterson etc cuz these are notable wins for Lucas yet your saying chaves is comparable to him.

Please name me a top guy Chaves has beaten since he's so comparable in your eyes to matthysse skillset?

Open your eyes Manny isn't the fighter he once was. Matthysse is the kind of fighter Arum would have been all over 5-6 yrs ago. Not anymore now they look for pillow punchers ala Algieri.

kidbazooka1 wrote:I named guys that matthysse has beaten or ppl felt he beat, Garcia was not one of those guys right?

Some ppls children. DD

And when did I say that Lucas beating soto was related to him being able to beat Manny? Again your making shiit up or inventing things up in your head.

I mentioned Soto, Provodnikov, Peterson etc cuz these are notable wins for Lucas yet your saying chaves is comparable to him.

Please name me a top guy Chaves has beaten since he's so comparable in your eyes to matthysse skillset?

Open your eyes Manny isn't the fighter he once was. Matthysse is the kind of fighter Arum would have been all over 5-6 yrs ago. Not anymore now they look for pillow punchers ala Algieri.

Exactly!! Which is why Arum said no quickly.

NateJR wrote:Pacquiao would destroy Mattysse plain and simple. The fight won't happen though so who cares. People act like Mattysse is this defense master, trust me he's no Mayweather or Marquez. Mattysse would be a easy fight for Pacquiao and would have a punchers chance at best and even that's a long shot. Really Pacquiao gets outboxed by the best fighter on the planet Floyd Mayweather and all of a sudden a low end second tier fighter would kick his ass? Where do people come up with this stuff. I'm one of Pacquiaos toughest critics and even I'm not blind enough to think that Mattysse would stand a damn chance in even making the fight competitive in a 12 round affair. 2 totally different class of fighters.

Then please proceed to tell my why Arum wants no part of Matthysse?

Since it would be so easy why won't Arum take it. Again you guys seem to have a lot more faith in Manny than his own promoter.

Shiit they chose Algieri whos a less acomplished lesser known fighter.

kidbazooka1 wrote:

Bobbyptsd wrote:

kidbazooka1 wrote:Chavez is on a comparable level?

Oh cmon who has chavez beaten?

No one whatsoever.

Matthysse has stoppage wins over proven guys like Peterson who he blasted, Soto still the only guy to put him away, Provo of course. And i wont even get into the Judah and Alexander Robberies we been there done that.

Please dont make shiit up saying chavez is comparable to Matthysse just to try and strengthen your argument.

And no one is saying Lucas is some unstoppable machine but neither is Manny not anymore. Lucas power and underrated skills can equal a nightmare for Manny now and Mannys own promoter seems to think the same thats why he wants no part of Lucas for Manny.

He's (Chaves) comparable to Mathysse in that he's comparable. There isn't some huge gulf in ability between the two. If you want to say Chaves is better, fine, I'd agree anyway. But comparable means, you know, it isn't absurd to compare them.

Manny would beat Mathysse badly in my view, as I said way back there. Not for nothing, but I notice you left one name off of Mathysse's record too, Garcia.

He stopped Humberto Soto, great. What that has to do with a hypothetical result against Manny Pacquiao, I haven't the foggiest.

I named guys that matthysse has beaten or ppl felt he beat, Garcia was not one of those guys right?

Some ppls children. DD

And when did I say that Lucas beating soto was related to him being able to beat Manny? Again your making shiit up or inventing things up in your head.

I mentioned Soto, Provodnikov, Peterson etc cuz these are notable wins for Lucas yet your saying chaves is comparable to him.

Please name me a top guy Chaves has beaten since he's so comparable in your eyes to matthysse skillset?

Open your eyes Manny isn't the fighter he once was. Matthysse is the kind of fighter Arum would have been all over 5-6 yrs ago. Not anymore now they look for pillow punchers ala Algieri.

The fact that he lost to Garcia, would seem relevant to me, since around that time Pacquiao was beating Bradley, and you have pointed to guys Mathysse beat, I would think his limitations are made clear by who he lost to.

I'm not going to argue endlessly with you anylysing every guy Chaves, Pacquiao, Mathysse and whoever else has fought. I think Pacquiao is a level above Mathysse. Clearly you don't. Well, ok.

Your right i don't.

I think Matthysse catches him eventually.

If Pacquiao fights again, you can count on it not being against a known big puncher. Once you get KO'd and knocked cold like he was, the chances of it happening again are much greater. Khan has done the same thing even though he wasn't knocked cold. Skill can keep you away from it for a while, but unless you have superb defense, you will get caught.

kidbazooka1 wrote:

NateJR wrote:Pacquiao would destroy Mattysse plain and simple. The fight won't happen though so who cares. People act like Mattysse is this defense master, trust me he's no Mayweather or Marquez. Mattysse would be a easy fight for Pacquiao and would have a punchers chance at best and even that's a long shot. Really Pacquiao gets outboxed by the best fighter on the planet Floyd Mayweather and all of a sudden a low end second tier fighter would kick his ass? Where do people come up with this stuff. I'm one of Pacquiaos toughest critics and even I'm not blind enough to think that Mattysse would stand a damn chance in even making the fight competitive in a 12 round affair. 2 totally different class of fighters.

Then please proceed to tell my why Arum wants no part of Matthysse?

Since it would be so easy why won't Arum take it. Again you guys seem to have a lot more faith in Manny than his own promoter.

Shiit they chose Algieri whos a less acomplished lesser known fighter.

Tell me, why Arum says a lot of things? Arum claimed Algieri was a great boxer and had the tools to give Pacquiao problems as well, how did that work out? Arum claimed Rios was a dangerous fight for Pacquiao as well, how did that go? Mattysse is a TR fighter isn't he? It would be in Arums best interest to praise Mattysse the same way would it not? Wouldn't it benefit him and Mattysse to say what he did rather than state the obvious that Mattysse was simply not on Pacquiaos level?

So Arums word is now the gospel? Bob "I lied yesterday, but today I'm telling the truth" Arum. Come on man, this talk of Arum saying "no way the fight happens" suddenly turns into Mattysse would destroy Pacquiao? This is plain crazy talk.

Badhusker wrote:If Pacquiao fights again, you can count on it not being against a known big puncher. Once you get KO'd and knocked cold like he was, the chances of it happening again are much greater.Khan has done the same thing even though he wasn't knocked cold. Skill can keep you away from it for a while, but unless you have superb defense, you will get caught.

Are there actual stats on that? I have assumed the same thing based on what I have seen. However, were most of the fighters who have been ktfo just as prone to it prior as post the ko?

At the minimum future opponents may be more likely to go for the ko than prior to the event. But i think that most fighters 145 and under in history would have been ktfo by The Planquiao every time it was landed.

Ramming Speed and FMJ tried landing game changer right hands. Bradley actually lifted Pac off his feet with a right hand but nobody has actually stopped him.

Matthysse definitely hits harder than FMJ and Bradley but he does not hit any harder than The Planquiao. Matthysse will always have a dicey time going to the cards. If he was that devastating of a puncher he would have stopped Judah, Alexander and Danny. He had chances in all three.

Why should we think that he could stop Pac easier than those three?

I would prefer to see Terence Hitman Jr Crawford v Pac or Matthysse.

NateJR wrote:

kidbazooka1 wrote:

NateJR wrote:Pacquiao would destroy Mattysse plain and simple. The fight won't happen though so who cares. People act like Mattysse is this defense master, trust me he's no Mayweather or Marquez. Mattysse would be a easy fight for Pacquiao and would have a punchers chance at best and even that's a long shot. Really Pacquiao gets outboxed by the best fighter on the planet Floyd Mayweather and all of a sudden a low end second tier fighter would kick his ass? Where do people come up with this stuff. I'm one of Pacquiaos toughest critics and even I'm not blind enough to think that Mattysse would stand a damn chance in even making the fight competitive in a 12 round affair. 2 totally different class of fighters.

Then please proceed to tell my why Arum wants no part of Matthysse?

Since it would be so easy why won't Arum take it. Again you guys seem to have a lot more faith in Manny than his own promoter.

Shiit they chose Algieri whos a less acomplished lesser known fighter.

Tell me, why Arum says a lot of things? Arum claimed Algieri was a great boxer and had the tools to give Pacquiao problems as well, how did that work out? Arum claimed Rios was a dangerous fight for Pacquiao as well, how did that go? Mattysse is a TR fighter isn't he? It would be in Arums best interest to praise Mattysse the same way would it not? Wouldn't it benefit him and Mattysse to say what he did rather than state the obvious that Mattysse was simply not on Pacquiaos level?

So Arums word is now the gospel? Bob "I lied yesterday, but today I'm telling the truth" Arum. Come on man, this talk of Arum saying "no way the fight happens" suddenly turns into Mattysse would destroy Pacquiao? This is plain crazy talk.

Your not making sense champ.

Matthysse is not a TR fighter he's a Golden boy fighter.

Arum knows facing someone like Matthysse is just too dangerous for his cash cow.

He would rather put Crawford in with manny cuz if Crawford wins its kinda like passing of the torch for the tr top fighter or if manny wins hes still his cash cow.

Arum seen no harm in Algieri thats why he was spitting his bs yet matched him with manny.

But when asked about a Matthysse fight it was no bs, he was quick to say hell no to that one.

kidbazooka1 wrote:
Your not making sense champ.

Matthysse is not a TR fighter he's a Golden boy fighter.

Arum knows facing someone like Matthysse is just too dangerous for his cash cow.

He would rather put Crawford in with manny cuz if Crawford wins its kinda like passing of the torch for the tr top fighter or if manny wins hes still his cash cow.

Arum seen no harm in Algieri thats why he was spitting his bs yet matched him with manny.

But when asked about a Matthysse fight it was no bs, he was quick to say hell no to that one.

Yeah I wasn't sure who Matthysse was promoted by, I thought he was TR fighter. None the less, I understand Matthysse being a dangerous fighter because of his punching power, but I just don't see anything Matthysse does that would trouble Pacquiao aside form landing a big punch.

As far as Arum pitting Pacquiao against Cawford IMO is a tougher and more dangerous fight for Pacquiao than Matthysse. But would make sense in the way you broke it down, I agree with that.

Again I don't think Matthysse would beat Pacquiao and truly think it would be a easy fight for Pacquiao, especially if he was able to get through the first 3 or 4 rounds when Matthysse is fresh.

NateJR wrote:

kidbazooka1 wrote:
Your not making sense champ.

Matthysse is not a TR fighter he's a Golden boy fighter.

Arum knows facing someone like Matthysse is just too dangerous for his cash cow.

He would rather put Crawford in with manny cuz if Crawford wins its kinda like passing of the torch for the tr top fighter or if manny wins hes still his cash cow.

Arum seen no harm in Algieri thats why he was spitting his bs yet matched him with manny.

But when asked about a Matthysse fight it was no bs, he was quick to say hell no to that one.

Yeah I wasn't sure who Matthysse was promoted by, I thought he was TR fighter. None the less, I understand Matthysse being a dangerous fighter because of his punching power, but I just don't see anything Matthysse does that would trouble Pacquiao aside form landing a big punch.

As far as Arum pitting Pacquiao against Cawford IMO is a tougher and more dangerous fight for Pacquiao than Matthysse. But would make sense in the way you broke it down, I agree with that.

Again I don't think Matthysse would beat Pacquiao and truly think it would be a easy fight for Pacquiao, especially if he was able to get through the first 3 or 4 rounds when Matthysse is fresh.

I just wished Arum had as much confidence in Manny as you do.

Matthysse is no joke and he doesnt gas like maidana midway in a figh. He's dangerous from bell to bell Arum is aware of this thats why he said NO NO with the quickness.

But man what a fight it would be.

I really don't think Arum has much interest in protecting his supposed cash cow, Pacquiao.

Fighters come and go. Arum knows that. He's been in the business 50 years. He's astute enough to realize that Manny's career has a short life span at this point.

I'm sure he accepts the probability that Pacquiao, like most fighters, will end his career as a loser. I doubt he's worried. If he was ever worried about protecting Pac, he never would have signed off on a series of bouts with the dangerous JMM. You fight that guy enough times and you know you're eventually going to lose.

Pacquiao has lost 3 of his last 6 fights, including a humiliating KO loss, so you really think Arum is trembling over the thought of the Filipino losing another? He's prepared. Manny still remains one of the top attractions in boxing, even if he's been a mere .500 fighter for the past 3 years.

If a Matthysse bout appears profitable, Arum will take it. I'm sure at this point in his fighter's career, he's relatively unconcerned with the actual outcome. He understands that he has a 36-year-old fighter who's nearing the end.

If Pac loses, so be it. No boxer goes on forever. Arum just moves on, enjoys the many millions he's made with Pacquiao for the past decade, and begins the usual process of building up the next TR superstar, something he's been doing since he started in the 1960s.

SenorPipino wrote:I really don't think Arum has much interest in protecting his supposed cash cow, Pacquiao.

Fighters come and go. Arum knows that. He's been in the business 50 years. He's astute enough to realize that Manny's career has a short life span at this point.

I'm sure he accepts the probability that Pacquiao, like most fighters, will end his career as a loser. I doubt he's worried. If he was ever worried about protecting Pac, he never would have signed off on a series of bouts with the dangerous JMM. You fight that guy enough times and you know you're eventually going to lose.

Pacquiao has lost 3 of his last 6 fights, including a humiliating KO loss, so you really think Arum is trembling over the thought of the Filipino losing another? He's prepared. Manny still remains one of the top attractions in boxing, even if he's been a mere .500 fighter for the past 3 years.

If a Matthysse bout appears profitable, Arum will take it. I'm sure at this point in his fighter's career, he's relatively unconcerned with the actual outcome. He understands that he has a 36-year-old fighter who's nearing the end.

If Pac loses, so be it. No boxer goes on forever. Arum just moves on, enjoys the many millions he's made with Pacquiao for the past decade, and begins the usual process of building up the next TR superstar, something he's been doing since he started in the 1960s.

I disagree with Arum not caring at this point, for the simple fact that a loss would ruin a mayweather rematch....even though it is unlikely to happen. Manny might just retire too.

A fantasy fight that's what it is D Well what vthe fu.., If the real Pacman shows he would Fu.. Matthysse career

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:A fantasy fight that's what it is D Well what vthe fu.., If the real Pacman shows he would Fu.. Matthysse career

That "real pacman" is long gone buddy.

His promoter like stated dont want any part of Matthysse.

More like he's afraid Matthysse would fuuck Manny's career up.

manny is waiting for Floyd, that is a given, Matthysse vs Rios would be an entertaining fight, I read in this post about the Russian Rocky, Hell I could
hit Provo, He doesn't move. Matthysse would probably end up beating Rios but would be fun to watch. I think this weight class is great, and I believe it will be even more entertaining when Floyd retires, no disrespect to Floyd because he is the best fighter right now and in the top 5 of all time, but with him out of the picture imagine how many great matchups we could have. Also keep Crawford in mind if he moves to 147 he will
be hard to handle.

SenorPipino wrote:I really don't think Arum has much interest in protecting his supposed cash cow, Pacquiao.

Fighters come and go. Arum knows that. He's been in the business 50 years. He's astute enough to realize that Manny's career has a short life span at this point.

I'm sure he accepts the probability that Pacquiao, like most fighters, will end his career as a loser. I doubt he's worried. If he was ever worried about protecting Pac, he never would have signed off on a series of bouts with the dangerous JMM. You fight that guy enough times and you know you're eventually going to lose.

Pacquiao has lost 3 of his last 6 fights, including a humiliating KO loss, so you really think Arum is trembling over the thought of the Filipino losing another? He's prepared. Manny still remains one of the top attractions in boxing, even if he's been a mere .500 fighter for the past 3 years.

If a Matthysse bout appears profitable, Arum will take it. I'm sure at this point in his fighter's career, he's relatively unconcerned with the actual outcome. He understands that he has a 36-year-old fighter who's nearing the end.

If Pac loses, so be it. No boxer goes on forever. Arum just moves on, enjoys the many millions he's made with Pacquiao for the past decade, and begins the usual process of building up the next TR superstar, something he's been doing since he started in the 1960s.

The point is that the process of building is usually done these days by beating a star from the outgoing generation. That's exactly why a Pacquiao-Crawford fight is exponentially more likely than Pacquiao-Matthysse, as any remaining star power Pacquiao possesses will be reserved exclusively for another Top Rank fighter's benefit.

I also must take issue with your characterization of Marquez. Pacquiao and Arum wanted nothing to do with him for 4 years after the second fight and only took it because they thought there was no danger to fear from a near 40 year old who had looked terrible at welter. Pacquiao was a massive favorite going into fight 3.

Matthyse is overrated, Pac still has enough to beat him IMO. I think he's not a big enough draw to be in Arum's mindset at the moment more than any real fear he annihilates Pacquiao.

sharpei_louis wrote:Matthyse is overrated, Pac still has enough to beat him IMO. I think he's not a big enough draw to be in Arum's mindset at the moment more than any real fear he annihilates Pacquiao.

Matthysse is actually underrated.

He has one legit loss to and undefeated champ who's still ranked the number one guy at 140 and it was no blow out it was a two point win.

Matthysse around here atleast seems underrated the guy imo would beat Garcia in rematch(why you think they want no part if him anymore).

And would end the manny Pacquiao of today.

Manny is no longer hungry the desire is long gone, Matthysse is hungry he wont fold.

As for being draw well Matthysse is certainly more known and more accomplished than Algieri and Rios yet Arum jumped on all over those fights.

Bottom line Arum does not feel confident Manny can beat Lucas if not he would have accepted Oscars offer.

fergusg wrote:Why are prople arguing about a fantasy fight that is highly unlikely to ever materialise?

I posted it because Oscar offered the fight to Arum which would have been a fans dream fight but Arum said NO WAY.

Matthysse is not exactly super skilled is he? I think he will take Pac though no worries at the moment.

macaca wrote:Matthysse is not exactly super skilled is he? I think he will take Pac though no worries at the moment.

No one is saying Lucas is mayweather in the skill department but he's no Provodnikov either.

He's a helluva puncher with a chin and some underrated skills.

If you know a little bit about boxing you know exactly what Lucas is all about, you better be ready for war because he always is. I want to see him and Chino get at it if Chino can get rid of the 50 pounds!