BoxRec

KBB wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:I'm not going to keep this dumb argument going with you for any longer than I have to. You fail to bring anything new to the table int he discussion so it's like shoveling dung into the shore with you. You fail to see anything from objectivity and your assessment of my boxing IQ doesn't bother me as wrong as it is.

But, one of the most ridiculous things you've ever said in here, that i've witnessed, is that "Boxing isn't about entertaining"
That's ALL it is about my friend and all the combat sports like boxing have been about since the Ancient Romans. i'm sure before that as well. The entertainment value of FMJ's style lately, especially since Sr. came back into gym with his son, is garbage. His style is less engaging with Sr. and less crowd pleasing than it was under Roger during those years FMJ did most of his damage and raised his popularity to where it is now. So you are telling me, as a Floyd Superfan, that you are just as satisfied with Floyd's win over Chino in their second fight than you were with Floyd's demolishing of Hatton or Gatti? I loved seeing Floyd go for the knockout and it's not something we've seen for many years. You can't count that Ortiz BS because VO doesn't have a morsel of heart and could have gotten up for the count that night but chose to take the easy way out not realizing that the punch Floyd landed was a legal one, yet not very sportsman, but legal nevertheless.

As a pom pom shaking Floyd Fanboy, does it bother you in the least that we've never seen Floyd even close to at his best? I think it's super sad, as a fan of the sport of boxing, that Floyd has failed to get out of his comfort zone and really show the world what he can do. I have freely admitted that anyone claiming that Floyd is TBE has a better argument than most and I won't argue that because he deserves to be in the conversation on ability i've witnessed alone, not the body of work. I have also admitted that he has more skill than I've ever seen in my generation. Hands down, no doubt. But, it doesn't bother you at all that he will not go down in history as one of the greatest because his safety first approach career is void of that gut check victory in a war like all the greats have had? You name me some of the greatest boxers in history and i'll show a signature bout marking their anointment. You can't do that with Floyd and that's sad for Floyd fans, non fans and these blood hungry people you refer to.

And...when I see a boxer that clearly has more skill than his opponents like Floyd, go this long without even trying to push for a KO or even a knockdown, I have to call it out. It's not because i'm a monster truck fan just looking for blood and guts, it's just that Floyd will never give us that moment we all want as boxing fans. We all want THAT fight we watch to be special in someway that we see something we've never seen before and Floyd's fights, aside from Chino 1, have been carbon copies for years now. He's found a strategy in the comfort of his home confines in which it is impossible to beat when you consider the advantages he reaps before he gets in the ring. If you don't acknowledge Floyd to have an advantage going into these fights then you have wider blinders on than i thought. It's fact.

That's all i'll say at this point. We've pounded this nail too many times and we clearly won't see eye to eye on it so there's no sense going back and forth with the same old nonsense.

As stated earlier, entertainment is a by-product of the competition in a boxing match. I'm very satisfied with whatever Floyd does in the ring because he uses very subtle movements and skills that the uninitiated (like you) simply do not understand what you are looking at. The reason you do not understand "BOXING" is because as I stated before you are an entertainment junkie, just read into your own post and you will see yourself for who you are. You are not a boxing fan, I know that this may come as news or bad news to you but you simply do not like boxing, brawling you love, fighting, you love but not BOXING (there is a difference).

We have seen Floyd at his best and so far his best has beaten everyone, too bad you do not understand that he has given us just that. Can you simply imagine if Floyd vs Corrales (which I think is his very best) was more than what it really was or that Floyd had given us this so called "best" that you are looking for what we would've really seen??

He will go down as one of the greatest, people don't like his persona and that keeps people from rating him high like he truly deserves, I get that part but it's sorta like a comparison of how Dennis Rodman was back in the 90's with the Bulls; off the court people hated him but once he stepped on the court he was a master of his domain, you have to respect what he does even if you do not like the person.

I have the uncanny ability to separate the boxer from his persona which leaves me with a clear cut judgment of what he does in the ring as opposed to mixing it with how he carries himself out of the ring (<<<<that person I don't particularly like).

You are incapable of separating the two so you look for ways to be critical (as you are doing here) about any little thing you can find as a way to cast shadows over what he does and was able to accomplish.....I get it, I see your types all day at work. You are no different than those people.

Floyd has advantages but so do other fighters, you mentioned Chino, well let's take a look at the advantages he has over Floyd:

Younger, Stronger, naturally bigger, more killer instinct, are these not advantages over Mayweather?? I certainly think so. Manny had advantages too: More experience due to more fights, stronger, Southpaw, equal quickness, equal stamina, so why can't you see this instead of focusing only on Floyd and what advantages you perceive him to have over every opponent??

I'll tell you why, it's because you dislike him as a person and cannot separate the fighter from his out of the ring persona and that leaves you to your own Dislike/Hatred of him so you make every effort to put him down any chance you get. I get it, I know your type.

So, truth being told; the only one who has blinders on is you because you are only focusing on your negative perception of Floyd the fighter and mixing him with Floyd the person outside of the ring and neither of them you like because you favor Manny Pacquiao who Mayweather just happen to beat recently.

We all get it, no need for the stupid Pom Pom insults, I'm not insulting you.

Have a nice day.

caldo2025 wrote:You make some judgements and throw some labels around and that's your right but one thing you will never see me do is knock Floyd's ability. I have said here and have always said, that i've never seen a better all around fighter in my lifetime. Hands down, that...i will give Floyd and have given Floyd without waver. Honestly, Floyd was my favorite boxer up until his last several fights where I just didn't appreciate what he DIDN'T leave in the ring. I have a problem with any athlete that doesn't play to their salary's worth. I had a similar relationship with Manny Ramirez here in Boston. The most talented hitter i've ever seen (drugs not withstanding) and he's given Boston great memories but he was so good and never gave it everything he had. Never ran out ground balls, Jogging to balls in the gap and pissing on older people and showing them zero respect. Their work ethic is not similar but they both prospered while being horrible people outside the ring and park and both couldn't care less if fans left happy as long as he got his check.

As paying fans, we have every single right to express our distaste for these athletes that make money that you and I won't ever sniff or see in our lifetimes that didn't put out and give us our money's worth. Boxing revenues consist of Entertainment Dollars and without Entertainment Monies, the sport would cease to exist. Al Haymon just put millions of dollars to make the sport, what? More ENTERTAINING. He's putting more of the spotlight on these boxers personally so fans can get to know their back stories and hence, make that connection that equates to interest which in turn, becomes entertainment. Your favorite boxers monicker is "Money" so you, of all people should know what this sport is about and the only way for these boxers to make Money is to be entertaining. Look at a guy like Roman Gonzales. He's 43-0, 5 wins behind your boy and no one knows who he is. He won't make any P4P lists with these so called experts but he could possibly be the best flyweight boxer in history. His big break was fighting on an undercard a few weeks ago... an undercard. You and I probably make more money than this guy. Flyweights aren't the most "entertaining" divisions and consequently, they make garbage for money but if marketed correctly, he could be more entertaining and that's why you saw him the other night.

Again, your opinion of what makes a true boxing fan is subjective and your option to make so label me how you may. When the world finally stops and gives boxing a shot and we "whatever" fans finally get what we've been pining over for 5 years, I think that it's not too much to ask that we be entertained and we feel like we've spent our time and money wisely. That fight did NOTHING for boxing and most would say that it hurt boxing. I personally think that a huge responsibility was on both guys shoulders to show the world what they were missing with the sport of boxing all these years. They were carrying boxing on their shoulders that night IMO and their jobs were to ENTERTAIN. I truly feel that one guy showed up planning to do that and one didn't. Most people smarter than me feel the same way.

Again, my opinion. Not for everyone but it's mine. I'm sure you don't agree and won't so it's casual.

Just my last two cents, take care man.

Like a Boss wrote:There won't be a rematch.

I can accept everything except the so called "entertaining thing" because fighters only fight to win. Take the cameras away and if fighters were making the same kind of money without them do you think they'd go all in for the sake of amusing the masses?? I DON'T!!

As far as Floyd being able to do more, he's 37, what other fighter you know that is his age that has or is this dominant in the sport?? Yes, they probably could've went toe to toe (what YOU want to see) but the sport is called "boxing" not brawling. It's your fault if you fell for the trap of believing that Manny's abilities would somehow make this a bout where Mayweather had to change his style in order to win or that he would be forced into going toe to toe in a brawl or fight.

Unlike you, some of us actually like "boxing" and respect the fact that both men are no longer in their primes and we take that into consideration, had they both been 19 or so then maybe we may have seen more of a fight but for God's sake these boys are at the end of their careers and we got what we had to wait for 5-6 years ago simply because Manny Pacquiao refused to do a series of simple blood tests.

I wasn't disappointed in the fight at all (not because Floyd won) because I saw exactly what I knew I'd see, Mayweather fighting his style and Manny trying desperately in vain trying to find a way to impose his will but not being successful.

caldo2025 wrote:You are right. If Floyd and Manny were sparring like Rocky and Apollo did in a dark empty gym, both would probably fight the same fight. So I do see the point you are making with that but most of these boxers aren't doing it because they just want "to win". For most boxers, it all comes down to the prize they are fighting for. Since the beginning of combat sports, if you win over the crowd, you are winning the match. The only reason Floyd gets to fight for these sums of money is because he's a genius outside of the sport in his own way. He's the greatest boxer of all time in the marketing department. He, single handedly, made himself a household name. Not some crazy promoter or network, he created the buzz himself.

Though i see your point, I think you minimize the importance of being an entertaining boxer. Having an entertaining style or personality is almost as important as skill in boxing. The goal to most boxers is to win a world title and their second goal is to have as many big payday fights as they can get. The only way to do it is by building a fan base and a demand. It's the difference between Floyd cashing his $180million check and Chocolito cashing his $80,000 check this month.

Look at Gatti, for instance. A really good fighter, a world champ, but he got paid better than almost everyone in boxing at one time because he was the ultimate entertainment to watch in boxing. He got beat up in every fight whether he won or he didn't but that didn't matter because he was entertaining. The examples are endless to illustrate my point.

My point is that the entertainment factor is a bigger piece of the pie than you make it out to be.

As far as taking punishment in order to be a crowd pleasing fighter, which fighter would you rather have been Mayweather or Gatti? That question should leave you no doubt about what's more important in boxing----being entertaining or being healthy and wealthy enough after you finish with the sport to enjoy spending the money you made with your family without shaking, having slurred speech, being a paraplegic or having brain damage??

I'd rather be Mayweather as a fighter than Gatti when it all comes down to it, anyone in their right mind would.

caldo2025 wrote:I am not saying that Floyd needs to drop his defense and take punches for the sake of our dollars, not at all. I would settle for just he giving us his all for a change. What happens if Floyd doesn't play it safe against Manny? Let's be honest. He knocks out Manny IMO. He does the same to Maidana and Guerrero. I guess my problem with Floyd, and it's more apparent in the bouts he's been trained by Sr, he seems to do be putting out just enough to win when he could be smoking these other fighters. I'm ok with him taking his usual 3-4 rounds to feel out his foe but then, get them out of there or try to at least. In 2 out of his last 3 fights, he left doubt in some of the fans whether he won the fight or not. I know there's danger in letting it all hang out but with his skill, the risk is low.

It all goes back to my issue with professional athletes not giving their all. No different than Lebron not getting back on D or David Ortiz batting .200. I don't think Floyd would ever perform well enough to be worth $180 million but he could have at least tried to get one of these guys out of there with a KO.

Maybe Floyd could be more offensive at times but let's just be honest and start with who he is as a fighter; we have never known Floyd to be a KO puncher, we have never known him to be an all action fighter and nor have we known him to be brawler and definitely not a one punch KO artist.

He's 38 years old now and his reflexes has slowed a vast amount from when he was at his fastest at 130, I would never expect him to decide to become the type of fighter that just sits there in the pocket taking the risk of getting caught with a punch he doesn't see trying to do something outside of his character, he wasn't even that type of fighter at his fastest of best (130).

Would I like to see Floyd take more chances offensively? Sure I would but I'm realistic and believe that he will do what he needs to win even if that means the crowd will not necessarily be pleased with it, no harm in that because winning is winning.

caldo2025 wrote:I saw in one of your posts that you think Floyd will choose to give Manny a rematch, does that mean that you don't think Floyd will fight in September after all? I may have misread it. Since Manny's shoulder surgery (or excuse) puts him on the shelf for 9 mos, who do you think will get the call from Floyd next then? Khan said yesterday that he's two weeks away from announcing the Floyd fight but he's full of it and i'm sure Floyd wouldn't allow Khan to announce anything like that. I feel it HAS to be Cotto providing that Cotto gets by Geale as he should. That Middleweight title belt has got to be something Floyd would love to grab in his last bout, don't you think?

KBB wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:I saw in one of your posts that you think Floyd will choose to give Manny a rematch, does that mean that you don't think Floyd will fight in September after all? I may have misread it. Since Manny's shoulder surgery (or excuse) puts him on the shelf for 9 mos, who do you think will get the call from Floyd next then? Khan said yesterday that he's two weeks away from announcing the Floyd fight but he's full of it and i'm sure Floyd wouldn't allow Khan to announce anything like that. I feel it HAS to be Cotto providing that Cotto gets by Geale as he should. That Middleweight title belt has got to be something Floyd would love to grab in his last bout, don't you think?

I agree with the MW strap fight, it's the only fight for Floyd that makes any sense at the moment. Khan is full of it and IMHO he doesn't have a chance in Hell vs Mayweather after what I've seen of him running from feather-fisted Algieri.

Floyd may hold out for the Manny rematch to make it 50-0 but given the timeline it's going to take for Packy to heal then it definitely won't happen in September.

I truly believe Floyd wants out of this contract with Showtime in order to give one last fight to PBC for free vs Manny, Cotto or Khan before he leaves the sport 50-0.

caldo2025 wrote:

KBB wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:I saw in one of your posts that you think Floyd will choose to give Manny a rematch, does that mean that you don't think Floyd will fight in September after all? I may have misread it. Since Manny's shoulder surgery (or excuse) puts him on the shelf for 9 mos, who do you think will get the call from Floyd next then? Khan said yesterday that he's two weeks away from announcing the Floyd fight but he's full of it and i'm sure Floyd wouldn't allow Khan to announce anything like that. I feel it HAS to be Cotto providing that Cotto gets by Geale as he should. That Middleweight title belt has got to be something Floyd would love to grab in his last bout, don't you think?

I agree with the MW strap fight, it's the only fight for Floyd that makes any sense at the moment. Khan is full of it and IMHO he doesn't have a chance in Hell vs Mayweather after what I've seen of him running from feather-fisted Algieri.

Floyd may hold out for the Manny rematch to make it 50-0 but given the timeline it's going to take for Packy to heal then it definitely won't happen in September.

I truly believe Floyd wants out of this contract with Showtime in order to give one last fight to PBC for free vs Manny, Cotto or Khan before he leaves the sport 50-0.

Agreed. Floyd would clearly outclass Khan. Did you notice that Algieri was copying Floyd's move in that fight. Every time Khan went into his famous 3-4 punch flurries, Algieri just ducked and moved in tight like Floyd did to Manny all night long. It turned Khan into a very ordinary fighter.

That would be a great way to go out. I've read in numerous places how 50 wins doesn't mean much to him for some reason but i'm sure it means SOMETHING. I hope that he does that one last fight for the fans. That would be a classy thank you and goodbye.

tiny_acres wrote:I don't understand how that 50th fight would be classy. I don't see why if he retired at 49 fights and just went on his way that it would make one bit of difference to anyone.

caldo2025 wrote:Agreed. Floyd would clearly outclass Khan. Did you notice that Algieri was copying Floyd's move in that fight. Every time Khan went into his famous 3-4 punch flurries, Algieri just ducked and moved in tight like Floyd did to Manny all night long. It turned Khan into a very ordinary fighter.

That would be a great way to go out. I've read in numerous places how 50 wins doesn't mean much to him for some reason but i'm sure it means SOMETHING. I hope that he does that one last fight for the fans. That would be a classy thank you and goodbye.

sucracristo wrote:the philippine general elections are may 9, 2016. manny will be tied up in campaigns all
of 2016 up to then, and will not be in fighting shape until after then assuming after the
election he has time to train for a top level fight. he just had shoulder surgery that will
keep him out business the rest of 2015. at best, he has one elite level fight left in him before
he retires if he wins the senate seat. ideally, maquez takes brook's title and makes manny
take the lesser share or 50/50 to challenge for marquez's welter title, the one title he still
wants. manny, marquez, and floyd all enter the HOF together and a new era begins.