BoxRec

Riddick Blowe wrote:

Crease wrote:he came unstuck against Bundu because it was too much, too fast

he lost to Bundu because he wasn't as good as him.

Still don't understand this bizarre line of thought that Gavin failed at X level because he 'wasn't brought along properly'. He failed at that level because he can't crack an egg, doesn't throw any punches, has no physical strength, etc. In short, isn't a top pro, never was, and never had the potential to be

Exactly,he's not 22 years old with little experience,he's British and Commonwealth champ and approaching 30 years of age,he just isn't physically strong enough at the weight to trouble a strong,world class fighter like Brook and boxing skills alone won't be enough to keep Kell away from him.

Crease wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:he lost to Bundu because he wasn't as good as him.

And do you still hold to that? If Gavin fought Bundu today, would you be expecting the same outcome?

Riddick Blowe wrote:Still don't understand this bizarre line of thought that Gavin failed at X level because he 'wasn't brought along properly'. He failed at that level because he can't crack an egg, doesn't throw any punches, has no physical strength, etc. In short, isn't a top pro, never was, and never had the potential to be

You are going overboard in your criticism of Frankie. He does have some pedigree, his achievements in the amateurs should count for something, not to mention his impressive achievements before he bumped in to Bundu.

And just because Frankie might lose badly this weekend doesn't enforce your views that Frankie is a bum.

I wouldn't call anyone a bum, but folk do make some odd excuses for this guy. His amateur pedigree alas didn't count for much in the pros, and no amount of careful matchmaking, or gradual improvements in class, or whatever you want to call it, would have made him this world beater that some people were predicting.

Re a Bundu rematch, what has changed exactly? It would be the same fight.

Riddick Blowe wrote:Wow.

Guys, I truly believe James Hare should have made it to the big time, but it's such a shame he 'wasn't ready' to be put in with Cosme Rivera...

Riddick Blowe wrote:I wouldn't call anyone a bum, but folk do make some odd excuses for this guy.

Is it an "odd excuse" to have an opinion that Frankie is not ready for his upcoming challenge. Do you think that Pete Rademacher was ready to face Floyd Patterson when he fought the World Champ in his 1st ever professional fight?

Riddick Blowe wrote:His amateur pedigree alas didn't count for much in the pros, and no amount of careful matchmaking, or gradual improvements in class, or whatever you want to call it, would have made him this world beater that some people were predicting.

Is your primary grievance with Frankie himself or with the process of gradual intensifying a boxers opposition? Because this process is used all over the world when building a fighter up. Hell, we are seeing it this weekend with AJ fighting Johnson - at last he's facing a guy who challenged for a World Title.

Building a fighter up is a tried and tested method of gradual improving him over time. You came mentioning this process and it's making me think that you disagree with it.

JimJim2009 wrote:

Crease wrote:

Boxerbeetle wrote:I thought the Bundu fight was for the European title?

It was. And we all know how that fight played out. I mean in his current state of progression he should be looking at winning that elusive European title and maybe spending a busy year fighting four/five European-level opponents, and tuning himself up for the big time. The current European Welterweight champion is the wily old Gianluca Branco - I'd favour Frankie to take him.

Then maybe a couple of European defenses against Jo Jo Dan, Selcuk Aydin & David Avanesyan.

Then, that could really bring Frankie on leaps and bounds... Rather than just using him a s a sacrificial lamb to the slaughter.

I agree with all that but ultimately it takes investment in the fighter and I think Frankies former promoter lacked the budget to fund such development, and his current promoter is cashing in instantly by throwing him with the wolves straight away. Eddie cannot lose on this one, he has both fighters. I feel sorry for Frankie.

As do I I fear he maybe washed up come Saturday night.

Crease wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:I wouldn't call anyone a bum, but folk do make some odd excuses for this guy.

Is it an "odd excuse" to have an opinion that Frankie is not ready for his upcoming challenge. Do you think that Pete Rademacher was ready to face Floyd Patterson when he fought the World Champ in his 1st ever professional fight?

Riddick Blowe wrote:His amateur pedigree alas didn't count for much in the pros, and no amount of careful matchmaking, or gradual improvements in class, or whatever you want to call it, would have made him this world beater that some people were predicting.

Is your primary grievance with Frankie himself or with the process of gradual intensifying a boxers opposition? Because this process is used all over the world when building a fighter up. Hell, we are seeing it this weekend with AJ fighting Johnson - at last he's facing a guy who challenged for a World Title.

Building a fighter up is a tried and tested method of gradual improving him over time. You came mentioning this process and it's making me think that you disagree with it.

Before the Bundu fight, not too many saw it as this 'bridge too far for his stage of development' that it's being presented as in retrospect by some people. Some saw it as a tough test, but one that Gavin needed to take, a good match, but one that he would come through. The bookies saw Gavin as a comfortable favourite (Bundu was 3/1 as I recall) and most on here were picking Gavin. Then, after the fight, some people were all 'Well, it's clearly because he wasn't ready!'

It's this mindset I have a 'grievance' with, if you want to call it that. Nothing to do with gradually upping the level of competition.

Personally I think this is a good fight for both men. Gavin has much to prove, the not too convincing Brook has a chance to keep busy, get some rounds in and earn some money.

I think Gavin has the ability and an outside chance to give Brook an uncomfortable few rounds at least.

I think Gavin will surprise a lot of people. I don't think he'll win but will lose a close decision that we'll end up with some people screaming ROBBERY because he was meant to get destroyed.

He's a tough man with good boxing skills. Brook is better but don't dismiss Gavin yet.

Boxerbeetle wrote:

Crease wrote:

Boxerbeetle wrote:Gavin's been a pro for 6 years & is nearly 30 - if he's not ready now, he'll never be ready.

It isn't a matter of time or age, it's a matter of progression. Who has Frankie actually beat to make you think he could match up against Brook? A faded Junior Witter perhaps?

I'm not disagreeing mate. Gavin's not beaten anyone to suggest he could match up against Brook & I don't think he'll be able to match up against him on the night. I was just making the general point that it's a bit late to be talking about progression given his age & the length of time he's been a pro - it's basically sink or swim time for him.

Totally

ShadrachSimmo wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:Wow.

Guys, I truly believe James Hare should have made it to the big time, but it's such a shame he 'wasn't ready' to be put in with Cosme Rivera...

In fairness that was funny

Riddick Blowe wrote:

Crease wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:I wouldn't call anyone a bum, but folk do make some odd excuses for this guy.

Is it an "odd excuse" to have an opinion that Frankie is not ready for his upcoming challenge. Do you think that Pete Rademacher was ready to face Floyd Patterson when he fought the World Champ in his 1st ever professional fight?

Riddick Blowe wrote:His amateur pedigree alas didn't count for much in the pros, and no amount of careful matchmaking, or gradual improvements in class, or whatever you want to call it, would have made him this world beater that some people were predicting.

Is your primary grievance with Frankie himself or with the process of gradual intensifying a boxers opposition? Because this process is used all over the world when building a fighter up. Hell, we are seeing it this weekend with AJ fighting Johnson - at last he's facing a guy who challenged for a World Title.

Building a fighter up is a tried and tested method of gradual improving him over time. You came mentioning this process and it's making me think that you disagree with it.

Before the Bundu fight, not too many saw it as this 'bridge too far for his stage of development' that it's being presented as in retrospect by some people. Some saw it as a tough test, but one that Gavin needed to take, a good match, but one that he would come through. The bookies saw Gavin as a comfortable favourite (Bundu was 3/1 as I recall) and most on here were picking Gavin. Then, after the fight, some people were all 'Well, it's clearly because he wasn't ready!'

It's this mindset I have a 'grievance' with, if you want to call it that. Nothing to do with gradually upping the level of competition.

Fair point, I was slating his opposition before the bundu fight, it was rubbish, and was not preparing him for what lay ahead. As with Liam smith now, the 154lbs division is red hot, ok if you remove floyd it's not quite red hot but nonetheless it is a tough division and in my view you serve Liam better by putting him in with better opposition now. That will help his development. They can carry on feeding him easy touches until he ends up in the mandatory position by default but I don't think that is the right preparation to get him ready for competing at world level.

Liam Smith and Liam Williams need to meet - that's a step up for both men and would be some scrap.

I'd not be surprised if Frankie gives it a good go, Porter aside Kells opposition isn't a list of killers and there's a few who say Porter wasn't what he had appeared to be. Bundu may give Kell fits.

For me, if Frankie is going to exploit his skills in a fight, he needs the opponent to be skilfully inferior, and to not have the strength to basically walk through him. I know Frankie was the dogs bollox in the amateurs but so far in the pros, to me, he has only shown himself to be one step ahead of decent domestic opposition. I do not see the skill set whereby he can outbox somebody like kell brook. Put Frankie in with a domestic plodder and he shines, but kell is world class. I really hope I'm wrong and that Frankie can do himself proud.

Frank is clearly boxing at the wrong weight.

The pros are not the amateurs. Frankie is a tough guy with lovely skills but he either doesn't have the strength and conditioning or won't push himself hard enough in training to become a top-flight pro.

Gavin wins on points for me ;;-)

Gazmac81 wrote:i see nothing more than quite a boring points win for Brook , i dont think brook is busy enough to catch Gavin with much to hurt him / stop him and will rely on single shots catching gavins head and gavin getting out the way of the follow ups , its could be a stinker and i anticipate it to be.

I'd like to be surprised but this is how I see it too.

I've got a tenner on Frankie - wide points margin.........

I cant work Gavin out. He knows if he loses badly he will never get another chance at the big time. Its a very risky fight for him so I don't understand why he has taken it. Gavin isn't the sort to be an also ran. He has dominated the amateur ranks and his plan was to do the same in the pros. Bundu proved to be too good and too tough for Gavin, but had Gavin won I could understand him wanting to take on Brook. A loss against Brook will confirm he is definitely not World class and not even European so where is his future in boxing.
It could be argued that Gavin had a bad night against Bundu but I just don't see it that way. If they had a rematch I am sure the result would be the same. Brook is without doubt World class but I don't believe Gavin is, as a pro. Gavin is thirty and if he isn't ready now to win a top title, he never will be.

Frankie has always said he'd fight anyone if a sensible deal could be made. Its really annoyed me seeing comments on social media slating him for taking the fight, its laughable that he is criticised for fancying a fight that he's not favourite for . While Kell is a good fighter and rightly favourite, he's had his issues and weaknesses too. I've never seen Frankie so relaxed before a fight, and I'm more than happy with the ridiculous 10/1 I got for my cheeky tenner. Its a tall order, but winning a world title shouldn't be easy and something tells me it could well be Frankies night. A change of attitude brought Kell the world title, I hope it does the same for Frankie.

If Gavin couldn't put the likes of David Barnes and Bradley Skeete into a backwards gear then how is he going to be competitive against Brook ? Frankie needs to get off Twitter and focus on getting down to a weight where he might carry a dig.

as others have said gavin needs to be fighting at light welter. awful team around him to not be pushing that. guess they were all happy coasting along with their pay while he taking on low ranked opponents.

JamesH wrote:Frankie has always said he'd fight anyone if a sensible deal could be made. Its really annoyed me seeing comments on social media slating him for taking the fight, its laughable that he is criticised for fancying a fight that he's not favourite for . While Kell is a good fighter and rightly favourite, he's had his issues and weaknesses too. I've never seen Frankie so relaxed before a fight, and I'm more than happy with the ridiculous 10/1 I got for my cheeky tenner. Its a tall order, but winning a world title shouldn't be easy and something tells me it could well be Frankies night. A change of attitude brought Kell the world title, I hope it does the same for Frankie.

I was actually thinking 1/10 was decent value on Kell. I don't have big money to gamble with but if i had a bankroll of 100k or so it would be an easy 10 grand.

I'm not sure if Frankie would beat Jo Jo Dan, and I was disappointed when the Van Heerdan fight was cancelled because I thought it was a fairly even match-up.

Brook is levels above all these fighters and will handily beat Frankie tomorrow.

JamesH wrote:Frankie has always said he'd fight anyone if a sensible deal could be made. Its really annoyed me seeing comments on social media slating him for taking the fight, its laughable that he is criticised for fancying a fight that he's not favourite for . While Kell is a good fighter and rightly favourite, he's had his issues and weaknesses too. I've never seen Frankie so relaxed before a fight, and I'm more than happy with the ridiculous 10/1 I got for my cheeky tenner. Its a tall order, but winning a world title shouldn't be easy and something tells me it could well be Frankies night. A change of attitude brought Kell the world title, I hope it does the same for Frankie.

That something is blind loyalty and a little thing called hope. Not having a go, we all experience that for fighters we support.

In reality though, there is nothing to support your feeling and to compare a change in attitude by brook and gavin is a bit crazy too. Brook blew away his domestic opponents and was easily European class. Frankie has struggled with domestic opponents and lost when he stepped up to European.

I had high hopes for gavin as he is local to me but i just can't see how he wins tonight . Brook is better in every aspect