BoxRec

just to interject misterpunch, the aim of the thread, obviously not very well-expressed by myself, was to think about the relatively talentless guys, who just got it done anyhow. I'd agree with mercman that Bugner was a guy who had a lot of physical tools, and somehow semi-failed to get it done in spite of them.

Didn't an early Bugner opponent die? I think I remember reading it affected him to a great degree and it would often leave him being less aggressive than he could be. Of course he was persona non grata for years after beating Cooper.

As an aside, has anyone seen the film Kajaki? The medic (Tug) is a dead ringer for a peak Bugner.

orbtastic wrote:Didn't an early Bugner opponent die? .

yup, plus he was very much in the vein of Eubank, where boxing to him was a job, a particularly brutal one, and nothing more.

Yeah, Eubank came immediately to mind.

A lot was made of the animosity from Cooper but there's a press photo of him "giving advice" to Bugner the day before he fought Ali.

Villasana relied pretty much on his chin

Counter-puncher wrote:Winky Wright fits here too, I'd say?

I thought Winky Wright had a supreme defense and an exceptional jab.

I think Tim Bradley is a guy whose abilities in the ring exceed his actual talent.

IKSRTFO wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:Winky Wright fits here too, I'd say?

I thought Winky Wright had a supreme defense and an exceptional jab.
.

sure, but in terms of tangible godgiven talents- you know, the part of the OP where I say they haven't got much speed or power or natural size but make up for it in other ways, with strong intangibles like, say defence or technique.

so, yeah, winky fits the bill, pretty perfectly.

I think Tim Bradley is a guy whose abilities in the ring exceed his actual talent.

good shout

Counter-puncher wrote:just to interject misterpunch, the aim of the thread, obviously not very well-expressed by myself, was to think about the relatively talentless guys, who just got it done anyhow. I'd agree with mercman that Bugner was a guy who had a lot of physical tools, and somehow semi-failed to get it done in spite of them.

perhaps joe is not such a good name for this thread but then your suggestion of winky is a bit dubious too, in my view - guy had great skills

skills, yes, 'godgiven talents' such as speed, power, natural size, no

would you say Winky was obviously laden with godgiven talent?

or did he 'overachieve', by developing technique/skill to compensate for the fact he didn't punch like Tito or move like Pernell, as per my OP?

misterpunch wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:just to interject misterpunch, the aim of the thread, obviously not very well-expressed by myself, was to think about the relatively talentless guys, who just got it done anyhow. I'd agree with mercman that Bugner was a guy who had a lot of physical tools, and somehow semi-failed to get it done in spite of them.

perhaps joe is not such a good name for this thread but then your suggestion of winky is a bit dubious too, in my view - guy had great skills

I am thinking of fighters who don't have a great deal of tangible talent, no big punch or pretty feet or size at their weight, or whatever, but still carved a carer at world level.
These guys have always fascinated me. You might term them overachievers, I guess, at least in relation to their God-given physical gifts.

which part of the above doesn't apply to Winky? his shocking onepunch KO power? those feet that danced their way to so many victories?

My ears are burning... Did someone say "Manuel Medina"?

Running gags aside, the diptych of Paulie Ayala & Clarence "Bones" Adams spring to mind.

& a current one (& I'm gonna get some grief for this):

Abner Mares.

Datsue wrote:My ears are burning... Did someone say "Manuel Medina"?

cut'n'paste that skit you did bruv

Skit? Skit?!!?!

I merely reproduced--verbatim!--the text of an original ad in the back of a prestigious boxing magazine, circa 1999:

An actual advert from the back of The Ring, circa 1999 wrote: Gotta vacant title fight to fill? Call 1-800-WEIRDLY-HERKY-JERKY & book Manuel Medina today! Will contest absolutely any sort of vacant belt! Guaranteed successful first defence for someone who probably doesn't deserve their title anyway*! Willing to travel to your boy's back garden & accept lawn ornaments as judges! Cuts easily! Can't punch! What are you waiting for?!?!? Him to get old? HE ALREADY IS!!!! For excess punishment to take its toll? IT ALREADY HAS!!! HE'S BEEN A PRO SINCE HE WAS ABOUT ELEVEN!!!

Call 1-800-WEIRDLY-HERKY-JERKY today!

*: NB: Nueva Weirdly-Herky-Jerky Inc LLc accepts no responsibility should your boy actually be fuckin' clueless enough to follow Manuel around all night eating flounced jabs & zero-leverage right crosses. An inability to cut off the ring will be sorely exposed by liberal applications of Manuel Medina-ness. Even if your boy is fuckin' clueless enough to lose to him, we guarantee you a rematch within twelve days, or before Manuel's cuts have healed properly, whichever is sooner. Your statutory rights are not affected.

Also: Raul "Jibaro" Perez.

All right, he was about seven feet tall, which can present a few problems for any bantamweight to cope with, but he did literally nothing else well. Apart from jab precisely, work-work-work like a bastard, & rock a beautiful sub-Arguello mullet/porn 'tache combo. & have a nickname that you cannot help but bellow, like it's the catchphrase of some shitty 1950s superhero. Well worth finding his fight with fellow grinder Gaby Canizales, 'cos Gaby only comes up to his waist.

See also: Oscar Larios. Like Perez, turn up out of shape/bored/disinterested & this guy'd give you kittens.

JIBARO!!!!

Datsue wrote:Skit? Skit?!!?!

I merely reproduced--verbatim!--the text of an original ad in the back of a prestigious boxing magazine, circa 1999:

An actual advert from the back of The Ring, circa 1999 wrote: Gotta vacant title fight to fill? Call 1-800-WEIRDLY-HERKY-JERKY & book Manuel Medina today! Will contest absolutely any sort of vacant belt! Guaranteed successful first defence for someone who probably doesn't deserve their title anyway*! Willing to travel to your boy's back garden & accept lawn ornaments as judges! Cuts easily! Can't punch! What are you waiting for?!?!? Him to get old? HE ALREADY IS!!!! For excess punishment to take its toll? IT ALREADY HAS!!! HE'S BEEN A PRO SINCE HE WAS ABOUT ELEVEN!!!

Call 1-800-WEIRDLY-HERKY-JERKY today!

*: NB: Nueva Weirdly-Herky-Jerky Inc LLc accepts no responsibility should your boy actually be fuckin' clueless enough to follow Manuel around all night eating flounced jabs & zero-leverage right crosses. An inability to cut off the ring will be sorely exposed by liberal applications of Manuel Medina-ness. Even if your boy is fuckin' clueless enough to lose to him, we guarantee you a rematch within twelve days, or before Manuel's cuts have healed properly, whichever is sooner. Your statutory rights are not affected.

Glad you posted that, just so everyone realised I wasn't over-selling it.

Thangyouverreemuch.

By way of recompense, next time you have sex, get your missus to shout out "JIBARO!!!" at point of orgasm*.

Actually, no, don't do that.








*: like I do.

Datsue wrote:
& a current one (& I'm gonna get some grief for this):

Abner Mares.

.

Yup fair dues, he doesn't have any prominent, defining god-given gifts either.

Anyway just so I know, is it pronounced 'Gibaro', or 'Hibaro'? Just so I know.

Counter-puncher wrote:Anyway just so I know, is it pronounced 'Gibaro', or 'Hibaro'? Just so I know.

Hee-barro.

Mind, my Spanish pronunciation is about as good as my English, like, so...

I am thinking of fighters who don't have a great deal of tangible talent, no big punch or pretty feet or size at their weight, or whatever, but still carved a carer at world level.
These guys have always fascinated me. You might term them overachievers, I guess, at least in relation to their God-given physical gifts.

which part of the above doesn't apply to Winky? his shocking onepunch KO power? those feet that danced their way to so many victories?[/quote]

actually I'm not sure about this thread. I mean - I could mention Arturo gatti, who has no, what you would call, god given talents - only his courage and warrior like instincts to duke it out. these were enormous gifts in gatti's arsenal and few fighters possessed them in such abundance. I'd call them god given as much as any ...yawn...big punch

Tell all those guys gatti flattened with one left hook that he didn't have at least one god-given TANGIBLE talent. The other ones you mention are intangibles, which indeed gatti mostly traded on, other than the fact he hit twice as hard as the blokes he was knocking out.

Though funnily enough when he wasn't outweighing his man by about 10lbs in the ring, all of a sudden the KO's dried up, and he was a medium-priced semi-high-profile punch bag for guys like Ivan Robinson. Having never, I guess, managed to achieve the kind of ringcraft that winky or medina did. He didn't develop the habit of 'just getting it done' the same way they did.

Darrin van horn

littlepug wrote:Darrin van horn

Up to he was 23