BoxRec

I've watched plenty of the fighters in the division and plenty of his fights. I don't see the problem with him being lower 15 and he wasn't a tiny guy picked for an optional defense who had fought two divisions below in his previous bout. I also highly doubt that he'll fight three divisions below LHW two bouts from now.

Mohammedi's also been in the top 15 of all the computerized rankings I've seen and in the top ten of some non-computerized rankings; he's not someone like Salka who was so unqualified that he was ranked 71st shortly before the fight. He gave Cleverly a tough fight when the latter was still undefeated and had momentum, was the only person to stop tough Doudou Ngumbu--someone who went the distance in a competitive fight with Fonfara, and he's at least been active and winning at LHW. He shouldn't have been the IBF's number one and isn't near Kovalev's class, but it's laughable to group him with Salka (though I'm not surprised you've done so given how much I've seen you moan about Kovalev and his team).

crusader wrote:I've watched plenty of the fighters in the division and plenty of his fights. I don't see the problem with him being lower 15 and he wasn't a tiny guy picked for an optional defense who had fought two divisions below in his previous bout. I also highly doubt that he'll fight three divisions below LHW two bouts from now.

Mohammedi's also been in the top 15 of all the computerized rankings I've seen and in the top ten of some non-computerized rankings; he's not someone like Salka who was so unqualified that he was ranked 71st shortly before the fight. He gave Cleverly a tough fight when the latter was still undefeated and had momentum, was the only person to stop tough Doudou Ngumbu--someone who went the distance with Fonfara, and he's at least been active and winning at LHW. He shouldn't have been the IBF's number one and isn't near Kovalev's class, but it's laughable to group him with Salka (though I'm not surprised you've done so given how much I've seen you moan about Kovalev and his team).

Lots of people don't know anything about the light heavyweights or boxing in general beyond the pale. The HBO commentators appeared shocked tonight that Gonzalez was a flat footed puncher. Anyone who searches his name on Youtube would know that already. Mohammedi's strongest wins are Doudou (who was laughed at as an opponent to fringe Top-5 LHW Fonfara last year) and Dudchenko (who is not good). His losses are...well, you looked them up. You saw. He moved up the rankings in a sanctioning body without doing anything of actual value deserving that sort of movement. But what else is new? BJ Flores and Shumenov are on my TV fighting for a vacant WBA Cruiserweight title. You know the belts and rankings are garbage. But the winner will be Boxrec top 10 afterwards and in everyone's rankings because they have a belt. You know it. I know it.

There are people like me who called this for what it was, and a lot of people trying to pretend it was something other than what it was. Mohammedi didn't belong in the ring and isn't even at the level below this level. Both guys in the undercard contest would have laid him out. So would Sullivan Barrera fighting off TV.

BoxRec, and I'm pretty sure most other computerized rankings, don't give bonus points for holding belts so I'm not sure why you think that someone would be in BoxRec's top 10 just for winning a belt. Sure, some people don't know much about boxing, but many do and I don't believe that Mohammedi consistently being in top 15s (unlike Roddy)--whether independent computerized, independent non-computerized, or those of sanctioning bodies--was inappropriate. He had put together a fairly long string of wins at the weight, had a standout result against a decent gatekeeper who hasn't otherwise been stopped and gave a top contender a difficult time, and he fought very respectably in a competitive loss to Cleverly when the latter was unbeaten and had momentum. He obviously had his losses, but he rebounded well and I don't think him being seen as a top 15 fighter based on that (and not necessarily talent or potential) was a massive misjudgment from several sources.

I think most people realize that he was a poor challenger and didn't belong in the same ring as Kovalev. That has been mentioned many times and there are plenty of people on various boxing forums and Twitter who called this a mismatch ahead of time and after the matter, with very few trying to talk up the bout as something other than this. I think people also realize that he was a mandatory (unlike Roddy) and that Kovalev was coming off consecutive bouts against then top fighters, which is why he's been cut some slack and isn't being massively criticized.

crusader wrote:BoxRec, and I'm pretty sure most other computerized rankings, don't give bonus points for holding belts so I'm not sure why you think that someone would be in BoxRec's top 10 just for winning a belt. Sure, some people don't know much about boxing, but many do and I don't believe that Mohammedi consistently being in top 15s (unlike Roddy)--whether independent computerized, independent non-computerized, or those of sanctioning bodies--was inappropriate. He had put together a fairly long string of wins at the weight, had a standout result against a decent gatekeeper who hasn't otherwise been stopped and gave a top contender a difficult time, and he fought very respectably in a competitive loss to Cleverly when the latter was unbeaten and had momentum. He obviously had his losses, but he rebounded well and I don't think him being seen as a top 15 fighter based on that (and not necessarily talent or potential) was a massive misjudgment from several sources.

It would be totally inappropriate given all the other generally better fighters at the weight in similar situations who hadn't been blasted out by gatekeepers. Also, then there are the gatekeepers themselves who beat him. For him to be elevated far above those fighters based on wins over frankly lousy competition and the strength of a "good loss" is preposterous. He was simply never that good. This was a predictable result based on that reality. But no system is perfect, and that's why before Boxrec updates, he's above Cleverly and Sukhotsky in spite of losing to both and never beating anyone better than them.

I think most people realize that he was a poor challenger and didn't belong in the same ring as Kovalev. That has been mentioned many times and there are plenty of people on various boxing forums and Twitter who called this a mismatch ahead of time and after the matter, with very few trying to talk up the bout as something other than this. I think people also realize that he was a mandatory (unlike Roddy) and that Kovalev was coming off consecutive bouts against then top fighters, which is why he's been cut some slack and isn't being massively criticized.

Kovalev is supposed to be fighting top fighters. Period! That's what he's supposed to do as a unified champ! This isn't a situation where he's cleared out the division like Klitschko, who gets a pass for crappy mandatory opponents because he has no one better to fight. He's insulated against the best because it protects his promoter's interests and then isn't fighting the next level of guy (basically Chilemba, let's be real) either.

Kovalev was a -20000 favorite for very good reason.

This was like a gun fight vs a guy with a banana.

It would be totally inappropriate given all the other generally better fighters at the weight in similar situations who hadn't been blasted out by gatekeepers. Also, then there are the gatekeepers themselves who beat him. For him to be elevated far above those fighters based on wins over frankly lousy competition and the strength of a "good loss" is preposterous. He was simply never that good. This was a predictable result based on that reality. But no system is perfect, and that's why before Boxrec updates, he's above Cleverly and Sukhotsky in spite of losing to both and never beating anyone better than them.

Rankings are fluid and change with the circumstances. He built himself back up after his losses while others were in situations in which their rankings fell for good reason--for example, in nearly the last 2 years Sukhotsy has done nothing other than going life and death with a journeyman and being brutally stopped by Stevenson. Looking at the rankings I don't see more than 14 people at the weight who prior to tonight deserved to be ranked ahead of him without argument based on recent results, and I also believe that him doing respectably against a top 10 opponent in the past gives him some credibility that someone like Salka (who was of course an optional, fought two divisions below immediately before Garcia, and just fought at 129) didn't have.

Kovalev is supposed to be fighting top fighters. Period! That's what he's supposed to do as a unified champ! This isn't a situation where he's cleared out the division like Klitschko, who gets a pass for crappy mandatory opponents because he has no one better to fight. He's insulated against the best because it protects his promoter's interests and then isn't fighting the next level of guy (basically Chilemba, let's be real) either.

So you think he has an obligation to fight top fighters as a unified champ, yet you moan because he fought someone he needs to in order not to risk his status as unified champ. Giving away a belt means that someone else can pick it up, claim to be champ, and hide behind it without challenging the two division kingpins, while it puts him closer to being a non-unified champion if an issue arises with another title and he has to give it up.

I have no problems with the occasional soft mandatory defense if a champion consistently fights good opposition, and Kovalev has done that, with his two bouts prior to Mohammedi being against a fighter who was generally ranked in the top 3 (many picked Hopkins to win) and another who was generally ranked in the top 5. Kovalev has generally fought good opposition and isn't someone who I believe has regularly been put in with markedly weak opponents given his position in the division, while virtually every champion has a Mohammedi type of fight every now and then. I also think the consensus was that this was a big mismatch against a fairly soft mandatory challenger, so if you believe that people were generally trying to talk it up as something else I think you have a distorted perception.

Perhaps Kovalev will regularly be matched with more weak opponents now, and it wouldn't be shocking considering how many are tied to Haymon, but that hasn't happened yet. I wouldn't rule out a fight with Andre Ward either, and that would be about as good as it could get.

So you think he has an obligation to fight top fighters as a unified champ, yet you moan because he fought someone he needs to in order not to risk his status as unified champ.

I moan because Mohammedi's status is clearly undeserved given his record. He had done NOTHING to demand being given a shot at one of the top two fighters in the division. His promotion to mandatory contender status appears as fraudulent as many other things in this sport. Yes, he was a weak mandatory challenger and that was because he did not belong as such. I certainly hope Kovalev takes on more exciting challengers in the future, but my guess is his next fight is Vasily Lepikhin.

zorndeslammes wrote:

So you think he has an obligation to fight top fighters as a unified champ, yet you moan because he fought someone he needs to in order not to risk his status as unified champ.

I moan because Mohammedi's status is clearly undeserved given his record. He had done NOTHING to demand being given a shot at one of the top two fighters in the division. His promotion to mandatory contender status appears as fraudulent as many other things in this sport. Yes, he was a weak mandatory challenger and that was because he did not belong as such. I certainly hope Kovalev takes on more exciting challengers in the future, but my guess is his next fight is Vasily Lepikhin.

Yes, his status as mandatory was undeserved and it was fairly clear that he'd likely be way out of his depth. Sanctioning bodies should have standards which lead to a higher quality of challenger and more competitive fights rather than obvious mismatches when better opponents are available. However, the reality is that the IBF declared NM a mandatory and Kovalev had to fight him to keep his belts. I have no problem with him doing so given his generally high quality of recent opponent, and I won't have a problem with him doing so in the future as long as opponents like Mohammedi are exceptions.

Lepikhin is Russian and has recently worked with ME so perhaps he's in the mix for the Moscow fight, but he looked so clueless in recently losing to Chilemba that I think Kovalev's people know he'd be widely seen as a very poor choice.

Mismatch but Kovalev must keep his belts and hopefully Mohammedi gets to keep his eye.

I love Kovalev he's my favourite fighter right now. no bollox, no ultra defensiveness, no ducking, no dancing, just a destruction machine.

He ends up on his arse almost every fight because he turns his waist on shots and he loses balance occasionally but apart from that he's pretty much a machine.

Bring on Ward. As soon as krusher detonates on Ward's chin it's lights out.

Kovalev power finishes things again,ive got to give Mohammedi credit,having been KO'd early before,he could be forgiven for trying to tuck up and play it safe but he gave it a real go in the 3 rounds it lasted and caught Sergey more than once,he just looked too small and Kovalev just hits too damn hard

I think that kid that Kovy fought works at the 7-11 down the street from my house. If it aint him......that kid at 7-11 would have probably
put up a better scrap. Kovalev is the man. The real deal. I don't see no one beating him.

I'd of had Mohameddi Top 15 before that fight.
The problem with the division is there's a huge gulf between the top few guys and the next 10-20.
As Kovalev and Stevenson aren't fighting these top few guys it looks a weak opponent.
A number 1 ranked guy against a number 12 ranked guy isn't great but the difference gets exaggerated due to how good Kovalev is and how weak the majority of the top 20 are at LH