BoxRec

Tanzio wrote:

davie wrote:

Tanzio wrote: Absolute nonsense.

Pac was hurt to the body by a Cheato on the downside without plaster fists. Cheato at the top of his game with plaster bats would have ended Pac, just as he would have ended SSM.

Cotto was nowhere near the same after Cheato. If the reverse had been the case, and Pac was coming off being beaten with bats, Cotto would have ktfo Pac and would have been p4p #1. Then FMJ would have found a weak rationale to avoid him.

Again all purely hypothetical. We can go through any nummber of theorys and possible outcomes, the evidence I'm going on is the evidence I saw with my eyes.... The Pacquiao of 2008/9 was better than any version of Cotto, throughout his career (And I say this as someone who is a fully paid up member of the Cotto nuthugger club, he ranks among my favourite modern day fighters)

Did the beating from Margarito effect Cotto going forward? Possibly.
Would the same thing have happened had Pacquiao been on the recieving end from Margarito? Possibly

Heres a hypothetical for you. Had neither man faced a cheating Margarito, who would have won a prime vs prime Pacquiao vs Cotto, no impairments, no lasting effects from grueling beat downs, just the 2 of them in the ring at their best, in their physical and mental peak?
Manny wins it for me every time.

Cotto is a fantastic fighter but he has never been good enough to be ranked the no1 p4p on the planet, Never!

Pacquiao on the other hand was. And not just because Floyd retired, for me Manny went through a period where he looked close to invinsible. A period where I still believe he would have gotten to Floyd had they fought back then and beaten him. A period where he would have meritted the no1 slot even when Floyd was active and had he been during his brief "retirement"

Pure conjecture.

Cotto v Pac without the cheato beating would have been an amazing fight. Unfortunately it did not happen that way

davie wrote:

Tanzio wrote:

davie wrote:
Again all purely hypothetical. We can go through any nummber of theorys and possible outcomes, the evidence I'm going on is the evidence I saw with my eyes.... The Pacquiao of 2008/9 was better than any version of Cotto, throughout his career (And I say this as someone who is a fully paid up member of the Cotto nuthugger club, he ranks among my favourite modern day fighters)

Did the beating from Margarito effect Cotto going forward? Possibly.
Would the same thing have happened had Pacquiao been on the recieving end from Margarito? Possibly

Heres a hypothetical for you. Had neither man faced a cheating Margarito, who would have won a prime vs prime Pacquiao vs Cotto, no impairments, no lasting effects from grueling beat downs, just the 2 of them in the ring at their best, in their physical and mental peak?
Manny wins it for me every time.

Cotto is a fantastic fighter but he has never been good enough to be ranked the no1 p4p on the planet, Never!

Pacquiao on the other hand was. And not just because Floyd retired, for me Manny went through a period where he looked close to invinsible. A period where I still believe he would have gotten to Floyd had they fought back then and beaten him. A period where he would have meritted the no1 slot even when Floyd was active and had he been during his brief "retirement"

Pure conjecture.

Cotto v Pac without the cheato beating would have been an amazing fight. Unfortunately it did not happen that way

Conjecture - an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information.

I don't think I could find a more apt description of a p4p list.

I'm not disputing Pac vs Cotto would have been a great fight if both men were 100% and accept that the Margarito outcome may have effected the way it played out.
But I maintain 2008 Pacquiao wins it all day, every day.
And 2008 Pacquiao was better and therefore higher on any credible p4p list, than Cotto at any point, under any circumstance.
That's my opinion but it's an opinion based on plenty of evidence, having watched every major fight each man has been in for over a decade
and an opinion which I would be confident is shared by most boxing fans.

And ultimately, regardless of the Margarito issue, the only concrete evidence either of us have to go on is the fight the 2 men actually had and that was a comprehensive win.
It would be nice if there wasn't that element of doubt about that, but the reality, that's all we have to work with

Tanzio wrote:
"All day every day" is pure BS.

Several things may have been different if Cotto had not been bludgeoned. Cotto may not have had to concede to the absolute crap catch weight demand. But, even more likely, Team Pac, including Arum himself, may not have fought Cotto at all at that point.

Your cavalier dismissal of Cotto's chances demonstrates your lack of objectivity on the subject.

Who knows, if Cotto had not been plastered by Cheato he might have made the same testing demands as FMJ made later. I am objective enough to take these things into consideration. If they had fought at all, Pac may have won, but the changed circumstances may have led to a different outcome or no fight being made.