BoxRec

punchoutsb wrote:
Yes I have watched most of Ali's fights. He is one of my favorites. My point was to illustrate that I do not believe any one fighter was so supreme that they could beat every other champion ever. Not Muhammad Ali, not SRR, no one. Any fighter that supreme, even slightly out of prime, should have no trouble with contenders and the like. Ali was great no doubt, but there is no way he or anyone else is able to defeat every other champion. Too many great fighters to run that gauntlet.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:The great Muhammad Ali is the MOST FAMOUS PERSON OF THE 20TH CENTURY.

He is, in my view, the best heavyweight ever in my view, but, on March 8, 1971, he found his match. He got whuuped

So you are saying Ali was the best ever, therefore, prime Ali would have beaten FOC Frazier?

elmersalsa wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:The great Muhammad Ali is the MOST FAMOUS PERSON OF THE 20TH CENTURY.

He is, in my view, the best heavyweight ever in my view, but, on March 8, 1971, he found his match. He got whuuped

So you are saying Ali was the best ever, therefore, prime Ali would have beaten FOC Frazier?

He beats Smokin' Joe any day and prime, except on March 8, 1971. Like I have said before, NOBODY BEATS THAT JOE FRAZIER OF FOTC...NOBODY.

Ali was better than Frazier when it comes to accomplishments.

elmersalsa wrote:He beats Smokin' Joe any day and prime, except on March 8, 1971. Like I have said before, NOBODY BEATS THAT JOE FRAZIER OF FOTC...NOBODY.

CrazyHorse wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:
Yes I have watched most of Ali's fights. He is one of my favorites. My point was to illustrate that I do not believe any one fighter was so supreme that they could beat every other champion ever. Not Muhammad Ali, not SRR, no one. Any fighter that supreme, even slightly out of prime, should have no trouble with contenders and the like. Ali was great no doubt, but there is no way he or anyone else is able to defeat every other champion. Too many great fighters to run that gauntlet.

But you are comparing a past prime ali to other prime fighters. Ali needed more tune up fights before getting in there with Frazier to begin with. Just how its unfair to say a 22 yr old ali would have destroyed a post prison tyson.

palooka wrote: Joe Louis, Sonny Liston, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Lennox Lewis and prime Riddick Bowe would have knocked fist shaped holes in Joe.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:He beats Smokin' Joe any day and prime, except on March 8, 1971. Like I have said before, NOBODY BEATS THAT JOE FRAZIER OF FOTC...NOBODY.

So for any other night of Frazier's career prime Ali beats him?

palooka wrote:

elmersalsa wrote: He beats Smokin' Joe any day and prime, except on March 8, 1971. Like I have said before, NOBODY BEATS THAT JOE FRAZIER OF FOTC...NOBODY.

Ali was better than Frazier when it comes to accomplishments.

Joe Louis, Sonny Liston, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Lennox Lewis and prime Riddick Bowe would have knocked fist shaped holes in Joe.

elmersalsa wrote:

palooka wrote:

elmersalsa wrote: He beats Smokin' Joe any day and prime, except on March 8, 1971. Like I have said before, NOBODY BEATS THAT JOE FRAZIER OF FOTC...NOBODY.

Ali was better than Frazier when it comes to accomplishments.

Joe Louis, Sonny Liston, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Lennox Lewis and prime Riddick Bowe would have knocked fist shaped holes in Joe.

What would Grazier do differently to beat Foreman?

Not on March 8, 1971 they wouldn't

CrazyHorse wrote:The Ali that fought Cleveland Williams would have beaten (FOTC) Frazier. Ali at his best was something else. Frazier beat an Ali coming off a 3 year lay off and distractions. Ali was still great by then but not at his peak like he was in the WIlliams fight

CrazyHorse wrote:The Ali that fought Cleveland Williams would have beaten (FOTC) Frazier. Ali at his best was something else. Frazier beat an Ali coming off a 3 year lay off and distractions. Ali was still great by then but not at his peak like he was in the WIlliams fight

CrazyHorse wrote:The Ali that fought Cleveland Williams would have beaten (FOTC) Frazier. Ali at his best was something else. Frazier beat an Ali coming off a 3 year lay off and distractions. Ali was still great by then but not at his peak like he was in the WIlliams fight

elmersalsa wrote:

CrazyHorse wrote:The Ali that fought Cleveland Williams would have beaten (FOTC) Frazier. Ali at his best was something else. Frazier beat an Ali coming off a 3 year lay off and distractions. Ali was still great by then but not at his peak like he was in the WIlliams fight

Ali was still good enough beating Jerry Quarry and Oscar Bonavena by knockout. Some Smokin' Joe's supporters believe that Ali was still prime. Ali fought his ass off that night at FTOC, but, he got whipped by the better man. Give Frazier credit for the win. It was the biggest victory in boxing history

CrazyHorse wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

CrazyHorse wrote:The Ali that fought Cleveland Williams would have beaten (FOTC) Frazier. Ali at his best was something else. Frazier beat an Ali coming off a 3 year lay off and distractions. Ali was still great by then but not at his peak like he was in the WIlliams fight

Ali was still good enough beating Jerry Quarry and Oscar Bonavena by knockout. Some Smokin' Joe's supporters believe that Ali was still prime. Ali fought his ass off that night at FTOC, but, he got whipped by the better man. Give Frazier credit for the win. It was the biggest victory in boxing history

I never said Ali wasnt good, and im not saying it to take credit away from smokin joe because he is one of my fav heavyweights and seemed like such a nice man. but in reality the ali that fought frazier was not the same fighter pre suspension. ali was still an elite fighter but if you look at the last 5 fights pre suspension and look at how ali looked in the fights afterward you notice a lot of differences. he was never the same. Ali needed more time and a couple of more tune up fights or else he would have beaten frazier the first time. If ali wasnt drafted into the war Frazier or Foreman would have never became champion. Ali would have stayed active and dominated the 60s and 70s

CrazyHorse wrote:George Foreman. The guy was just a bad style matchup for Joe.

elmersalsa wrote:

CrazyHorse wrote:George Foreman. The guy was just a bad style matchup for Joe.

Yeah, in any other day. Not on March 8, 1971. The great Big George could win 100 fights against the great Smokin' Joe. But on TFOC? Different story.

elmersalsa wrote:

CrazyHorse wrote:The Ali that fought Cleveland Williams would have beaten (FOTC) Frazier. Ali at his best was something else. Frazier beat an Ali coming off a 3 year lay off and distractions. Ali was still great by then but not at his peak like he was in the WIlliams fight

Ali was still good enough beating Jerry Quarry and Oscar Bonavena by knockout. Some Smokin' Joe's supporters believe that Ali was still prime. Ali fought his ass off that night at FTOC, but, he got whipped by the better man. Give Frazier credit for the win. It was the biggest victory in boxing history

NateJR wrote:No such thing as a fighter that's unbeatable on any given night.. We can debate till we're red in the face that a fighter on a particular night couldn't have been beaten. But like I said, no matter how tough and good you are there's always someone out there that can kick your ass.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

CrazyHorse wrote:The Ali that fought Cleveland Williams would have beaten (FOTC) Frazier. Ali at his best was something else. Frazier beat an Ali coming off a 3 year lay off and distractions. Ali was still great by then but not at his peak like he was in the WIlliams fight

Ali was still good enough beating Jerry Quarry and Oscar Bonavena by knockout. Some Smokin' Joe's supporters believe that Ali was still prime. Ali fought his ass off that night at FTOC, but, he got whipped by the better man. Give Frazier credit for the win. It was the biggest victory in boxing history

How did you score the FOTC?

elmersalsa wrote:[I had Smokin' Joe winning 145-141 or 8-5-2 in rounds.
Rounds 11th and 15th were huge for Frazier. He definitely deserved the victory. The great Muhammad Ali fought one of his best fights, even though he lost. No shame in that.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

dr_devious wrote:Robinson at welterweight, Duran at Lightweight

Benny Leonard would beat Duran IMO.