BoxRec

Chuvalo wasn't in the last 30 years.

Holyfield had a strong chin in his day

He got dropped a few times at the end of career, due more to horrible conditioning than to taking punches, but the night he stood up to the bombs of Earnie Shavers Randall "Tex" Cobb had an awesome chin. At his peak he had a great talent for absorbing punches.

Jukejar wrote:He got dropped a few times at the end of career, due more to horrible conditioning than to taking punches, but the night he stood up to the bombs of Earnie Shavers Randall "Tex" Cobb had an awesome chin. At his peak he had a great talent for absorbing punches.

Cobb was one tough dude, his face absolutley battered Larry Holmes left fist for 15 rounds.

Come on!! Can anyone think of any heavyweight champ who faced more ferocious punchers than Ali?
And was never knocked out?
No-one comes close.

Liston
Williams
Frazier
Foreman
Shavers

MightyWarrior wrote:Come on!! Can anyone think of any heavyweight champ who faced more ferocious punchers than Ali?
And was never knocked out?
No-one comes close.

Liston
Williams
Frazier
Foreman
Shavers

You can add Ron Lyle and Ken Norton to that list too.

From the time Ali (Clay) first won a belt in '64 until he finally hung 'em up in '80, Ali was knocked down one time. His chin was tops.

(Oh, but, dempseyfire, Holyfield knocked Mercer down, the first one to do so, with a perfect left-hook to the jaw/chin...just about anyone else would have been KO'ed)

KOJOE90 wrote:

MightyWarrior wrote:Come on!! Can anyone think of any heavyweight champ who faced more ferocious punchers than Ali?
And was never knocked out?
No-one comes close.

Liston
Williams
Frazier
Foreman
Shavers

You can add Ron Lyle and Ken Norton to that list too.

And Our 'Enry

Ali for me, Tyson has got to be up there - sure he's been stopped 3 times but they were beatings he took before he went down.

A Prime Holyfield is another big canditate, especially as he's got a cruiserweight frame.

The Light-Heavyweight Dwight Qawi is worth a respectfull mention I feel.

I'd go for Lennox Lewis.

at heavyweight Ray Mercer for last 10 years before that, I would not know but I would not doubt Mercer is had the best chin in 30years

McCall & Mercer, I'd say. McCall was a prominent sparring partner for Tyson in the 80s, and hardly got knocked down (so I'm led to believe).

If anyone knows differently then please let me know.

Eric the Viking wrote:

Slapsie Maxie wrote:I would not count Ali. Great chin, but two knockdowns I can think of ( Cooper and Frazier )

Ali got up from both those KDs. Frazier and Foreman knocked Chuvalo OUT. (Of course the fact that Chuvalo was easier to hit than Ali probably had something to do with that, but that's more subjective than just looking at KDs and KOs.)

But both had outstanding beards.

Hi Eric and Slapsie. Chuvalo was never knocked out. Those TKOs were injury stoppages. The man cut, and was cut no worse than Marciano was against Charles but they did the right thing stopping those two fights.

Jeffries had an oustanding chin. He only dropped to his knees against Johnson because he was old and spent and the heat and exhaustion took his legs. He never should have come out of retirement. He was lounging around over 300 pounds on the alfalfa farm. Jack London should have just kept his trap shut. Johnson would have still beaten Jeffries had Jeffries been in his prime, but it would have been a tough, close fight and Jeffries would have never been close to going down. Paulino Uzcudun was never more than a lightheavy, and only when he was old and a shell of the fighter he was did Louis stop him. The guy was damn near KO proof. Tua also has a terrific set of whiskers. Ali's chin would have been perfect had they not invented the left hook. Ali was down three times, against Sonny Banks, Henry Cooper and Joe Frazier, all from the left hook. They don't call it the Great Equalizer for nothing. Given that, the man that takes the best left hook has the best chin. The man who doesn't cut has a better chin than a man who does. What good does an iron jaw do you if you bleed like a pig and the ref steps in? This rules out both Chuvalo and Marciano, although they were definitely iron jawed wonders. That leaves Uzcudun or Tua or Jeffries and I like Jeffries better because he was better.

Paolino Uzcudun was no light heavy. In his prime he stood 5'11" and generally weighed between 195 and 200. He was a tough SOB who fought with a cross-arm defence making it difficult to reach his chin.

I would pay good money in heaven to see Jeffries and Chuvalo both fight in their primes. They were almost the same size with a slight edge to Chuvalo. George was a wicked body puncher, as was Jeffries. Most of the guys Jeff fought were light heavies or small heavyweights. Chuvalo could take anything Jeffries could throw. Man, what a war!

As for Chuvalo and Shavers. George would've done the same thing to him that Stander, Quarry and Lyle did. Knock him out.

As for the original question, I'd say Mercer has to be up there. Maybe Tua. Tex Cobb had a great beard too.

Cap

Cap wrote:George was a wicked body puncher,

Very true, a fact that is sometimes over looked when talking about the teak tough Canadian.

Makes you also realise how tough Ali was, when you think how in their first fight there was that point where Ali let Chuvalo land about 15 body shot in a row, and didn't seem to flinch!!

But Ali lay on a table after the fight in obvious pain and admitted he peed blood the next day.

Cap

Cap wrote:But Ali lay on a table after the fight in obvious pain and admitted he peed blood the next day.

Cap

But my point is he didn't show that pain in the fight, you have got to be tough to do that, many fighters would have collapsed after taking 15 body shots in a row off George.

Cap wrote:Paolino Uzcudun was no light heavy. In his prime he stood 5'11" and generally weighed between 195 and 200. He was a tough SOB who fought with a cross-arm defence making it difficult to reach his chin.

I would pay good money in heaven to see Jeffries and Chuvalo both fight in their primes. They were almost the same size with a slight edge to Chuvalo. George was a wicked body puncher, as was Jeffries. Most of the guys Jeff fought were light heavies or small heavyweights. Chuvalo could take anything Jeffries could throw. Man, what a war!

As for Chuvalo and Shavers. George would've done the same thing to him that Stander, Quarry and Lyle did. Knock him out.

As for the original question, I'd say Mercer has to be up there. Maybe Tua. Tex Cobb had a great beard too.

Cap

Jefferies was bigger then Chuvalo and faster. I don't see it being the competetive war you imagine, although Chuvalo was a better boxer then is remembered for and I believe is highly under-rated. I basically view him as a white Ray Mercer but replace the jab with the left hook to the body as the primary weapon, and Mercer had more power but lesser stamina.
Jefferies may have fought mostly smaller opponents but the likes of Corbett and and Tom Sharkey would tear a new one off many of today's 'super HWs' (in Corbett's case he'd just make them look stupid). From all accounts Jefferies was a very hard hitter-he didn't go for the early KOs b/c in a 25 round fight, even if you outweigh the guy by 15 lbs if you blow your load early and the other guy is still standing, you're in deep shit.

George Chuvalo was 6'1" and usually weighed about 210-15 in his prime. Jeff was measured by a prof at MIT just before the Sharkey fight, and was listed as 6' and 205 lbs. He had a bit of spare flesh on him later in his career. Just look at him standing shoulder to shoulder with Bob Fitzsimmons. Fitz is usually listed as 5'11", and if anything, he is the same height as Jeff. Look at pics of Jeff refereeing the Burns-Squires fight. If Jeff was 6'2" say, then Tommy must've been 5'11"!

Jeff made his name off wins over mostly little guys. Gus Ruhlin was one of the few legit "heavy" weights he fought, and he wasn't much. Jack Munroe was another, but there's a cloud over that fight.

Chuvalo would walk through Jeffries and knock him out in three or less.

Seriously, Chuvalo would have been Jeff's toughest opponent by far. Chuvalo might even have out-boxed the slow-moving stooped-over elephant from California.

Cap

If championship fights were 40 rounds, Chuvalo may have been the greatest of them all...no shit!!!

Cap wrote:George Chuvalo was 6'1" and usually weighed about 210-15 in his prime. Jeff was measured by a prof at MIT just before the Sharkey fight, and was listed as 6' and 205 lbs. He had a bit of spare flesh on him later in his career. Just look at him standing shoulder to shoulder with Bob Fitzsimmons. Fitz is usually listed as 5'11", and if anything, he is the same height as Jeff. Look at pics of Jeff refereeing the Burns-Squires fight. If Jeff was 6'2" say, then Tommy must've been 5'11"!

Jeff made his name off wins over mostly little guys. Gus Ruhlin was one of the few legit "heavy" weights he fought, and he wasn't much. Jack Munroe was another, but there's a cloud over that fight.

Chuvalo would walk through Jeffries and knock him out in three or less.

Seriously, Chuvalo would have been Jeff's toughest opponent by far. Chuvalo might even have out-boxed the slow-moving stooped-over elephant from California.

Cap

I believe Jefferies is typically listed as 6'1, prime weight 205-215. Regardless, size is not thr issue here. You think a slow-footed brawler like Chuvalo would give Jefferies, a quick (not slow as you say), iron-chinned puncher, a tougher fight then the quick and slick Corbett??? Style-wise, Chuvalo has nothing to counter Jefferie's strengths. And Chuvalo, while having a great chin, was not immune to getting hurt. Foreman clearly had him on queer street before that fight was stopped, and Bonavena scored at least one knockdown on George that was ruled a slip. Jefferies was everything Chuvalo was and a bag of potato chips. He was considered an athletic phenonenom. Chuvalo was considered tough, game, and midly skilled but basically a very good gatekeeper.

Cap wrote:Paolino Uzcudun was no light heavy. In his prime he stood 5'11" and generally weighed between 195 and 200. He was a tough SOB who fought with a cross-arm defence making it difficult to reach his chin.

Uzcudun was tough in the ring but he was lazy and odd out of the ring. Had he trained to his maximum and been more serious about his career he would have been a light heavy. He carried ten or fifteen worthless pounds around all the time (even when vaulting mailboxes) and they sure didn't help him against Schmeling or Mickey Walker.

But the bottom line is really this---you can say he was tough all you want, but he got his clock cleaned by a blown up welterwight in Walker. Now Walker WAS tough, but he beat most of the good heavyweights he beat because they were lazy in training regardless of what grit they displayed in the ring. Uzcudun was no more a heavy than Walker was a lightheavy. The fact the Woodchopper was too lazy to ever lose the weight to compete at lightheavy might fool some folks misreading the historical record, but there it sits.

CAP: Seriously, Chuvalo would have been Jeff's toughest opponent by far. Chuvalo might even have out-boxed the slow-moving stooped-over elephant from California.

Where do you get Jeffries was slow? There's nothing gleanable in the historical record to draw such a conclusion. It smacks of argument by crass assertion. In fact, observations by contemporaries state just the opposite, that in his prime Jeffries was quick. It is best not to confuse the old Jeffries who came off the alfalfa farm at Jack London's behest with the undefeated champ of the turn of the century, anymore than you should confuse the Tyson that was dropped by Danny Williams with the young dynamo that blasted out Larry Holmes, anymore than you should confuse the Holmes that was blasted out by Tyson with the slick warrior that punched Ali silly, anymore than you should confuse the Ali that was punched silly by Holmes with the Ali that dropped Foreman. Getting the picture, Cap?