Page 2 of 5
Re: Groves disputes decision
Posted: 14 Sep 2015, 04:59
by johnswan1
DeGale will be fine. I suppose he has missed out on the big money unification but it also means he calls all the shots now when it comes to taking on another British fighter. The likes of Smith/Groves/Murray/Fielding will all be wanting the DeGale voluntary and it could be a big money fight in the UK with DeGale taking the lions share. It's unlikely DeGale has made a lot of money as a pro yet apart from maybe when he first turned over.
DeGale is also with Haymon so it's possible he could unify with Jack, although neither fighter is enough of a draw at the moment to warrant the risk to each other and having the two titles would mean more mandatory (i.e. low profile and less money) defenses.
Re: Groves disputes decision
Posted: 14 Sep 2015, 05:07
by jamesmcdonnell
taffytoon wrote:This is a simple one; GG is not as good as he thinks he is. Stop moaning; train harder and put more work into your fights. Oh and get back to booth on bended knees if needed, Paddy is not the trainer for you. Lastly stop blaming everyone else for your short comings.
Yes, agreed - I'm not sure whether it is tension, or whether he doesn't train hard enough, or maybe he just isn't genetically gifted, but his poor stamina in the last 3rd of the fight is always going to hold him back.
He also doesn't seem to commit to his shots In the same way any more.
On current evidence, Groves is a fringe world class operator - not good enough to be at the top, but good enough to give people an argument.
I thought he performed well against Jack, but he never really asserted his dominance. Jack is a better operator than given credit for, he's tricky to nail with successive shots, and kept firing back whenever Groves tried to establish dominance. Groves needed to put his foot on the gas for a sustained period, but I'm not sure he's capable of doing so.
Re: Groves disputes decision
Posted: 14 Sep 2015, 05:09
by Counter-puncher
i wouldn't mind seeing Groves fight that big stiff idiot Callum Smith
Re: Groves disputes decision
Posted: 14 Sep 2015, 05:13
by johnswan1
jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Yes, agreed - I'm not sure whether it is tension, or whether he doesn't train hard enough, or maybe he just isn't genetically gifted, but his poor stamina in the last 3rd of the fight is always going to hold him back.
Agree re the final third - his stamina starts to fade and it's visibly alarming and probably also fairly motivating to his opponents. It's really obvious when he gets tired as he gets ragged and starts to look as though he's a little drunk or something.
Re: Groves disputes decision
Posted: 14 Sep 2015, 05:18
by jamesmcdonnell
johnswan1 wrote:jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Yes, agreed - I'm not sure whether it is tension, or whether he doesn't train hard enough, or maybe he just isn't genetically gifted, but his poor stamina in the last 3rd of the fight is always going to hold him back.
Agree re the final third - his stamina starts to fade and it's visibly alarming and probably also fairly motivating to his opponents. It's really obvious when he gets tired as he gets ragged and starts to look as though he's a little drunk or something.
He really seems to hit the wall, and as you say, his body language makes it clear he is struggling. You can see there's no power in his shots either.
Re: Groves disputes decision
Posted: 14 Sep 2015, 05:37
by Tarkus
Groves disputes decision
When he does not? Even when flat on his back he still claims he won the fight.
I was not scoring but Jack looked a better man. I think Groves is finished as a contender.
Re: Groves disputes decision
Posted: 14 Sep 2015, 05:49
by stujones
Give Groves a little bit of credit, he did not dispute the 2nd Froch fight at all - there was no disputing that. A bit of a difference between disputing a decision and still believing you can beat a person you lost fairly and squarely too.
I wonder if he took Jack lightly a tad - he seemingly was crowned world champion as soon as the fight was announced.
Re: Groves disputes decision
Posted: 14 Sep 2015, 05:55
by johnswan1
After the second Froch fight he was still asking about a third bout and still telling people how he was winning the first fight and was controlling the second fight until getting hit with a lucky punch...
Re: Groves disputes decision
Posted: 14 Sep 2015, 06:08
by BAP1
Groves lost a close decision on my score card 114-113. I think he needs to change trainer and try something different.
Re: Groves disputes decision
Posted: 14 Sep 2015, 06:26
by Tarkus
johnswan1 wrote:After the second Froch fight he was still asking about a third bout and still telling people how he was winning the first fight and was controlling the second fight until getting hit with a lucky punch...
Exactly. I mean if he actually said he won the fight they would put him away.
Re: Groves disputes decision
Posted: 14 Sep 2015, 06:39
by Finn
ILikeBeer wrote:It's my opinion that the first Froch fight being stopped early was the best thing to ever happen to Groves. Pre-fight everybody, myself included, was saying the fight was too early for Groves and he was going to get killed. Sure, he started well with Froch, but he was beginning to tire. If it had gone on a couple of rounds, there's no doubt in my mind Froch would've won. The doubt caused by the referee meant that Groves could have an extremely lucrative rematch. And despite losing the rematch, still has a name enough to challenge Jack for the title in Vegas.
I think we've reached a point though, where there really isn't anything that justifies Groves getting another World Title shot. He's had three, he's lost three. The only reason he's disputing this is because he's hoping to cause controversy like he did with Froch and get a rematch.
It'll be interesting to see if he gets a rematch. People won't be that interested this time. He was lucky that the first Froch fight was a lot more controversial than it should've been.
If he doesn't get the Jack rematch, the best he can hope for, in my opinion, is a few high profile losses. Maybe he can convince Andre Ward to fight him, if he admits willing to travel. Either that, or he'll have to fight some stiffs for a year or two, get a few wins, and hope eventually of some mediocre fighter fluking a World Title and getting a shot.
The real question is, where does this leave DeGale? DeGale seems to have gone a bit quiet since winning the title, I think maybe he was waiting to see if Groves won to set up a unification. That didn't happen.
Degale should be looking at AA or Jack imo
Re: Groves disputes decision
Posted: 14 Sep 2015, 06:48
by Ian1973
Groves hasn't looked the same fighter since the first Froch fight. His only hope is getting Adam Booth back in his corner IMO.
Re: Groves disputes decision
Posted: 14 Sep 2015, 07:00
by stujones
johnswan1 wrote:After the second Froch fight he was still asking about a third bout and still telling people how he was winning the first fight and was controlling the second fight until getting hit with a lucky punch...
I don't think he ever called it a lucky punch.... but I largely agree with what he says. He was winning the first fight and he was gaining a control of the 2nd fight before being caught.
Disputing the 2nd fight would be him saying "the ref should have counted I would have got up". I don't see what is wrong with saying "I was doing well, got caught with a shot that I shouldn't have - won't happen again" - that's not being disrespectful to Carl IMO, that is just some strong self belief - which is fine.
He said he would like to fight Froch again and he still believed he could beat him. His tone was very different to the end of the first fight in which he really pressured the public and Carl into the rematch. He knew any 3rd fight would have to be a voluntary (and I am not talking about sanctioning bodies here) for Carl. However, he did always state that the 3rd fight would be Carl's call and perfectly understandable if he said no..... he hasn't called Carl a wimp for retiring without a 3rd fight or claiming any unfinished business.
Not everyone is going to be like Richie Woodhall vs Glenn Catley and admit defeat.
Re: Groves disputes decision
Posted: 14 Sep 2015, 07:36
by TheCobra
stujones wrote:johnswan1 wrote:After the second Froch fight he was still asking about a third bout and still telling people how he was winning the first fight and was controlling the second fight until getting hit with a lucky punch...
I don't think he ever called it a lucky punch.... but I largely agree with what he says. He was winning the first fight and he was gaining a control of the 2nd fight before being caught.
Disputing the 2nd fight would be him saying "the ref should have counted I would have got up". I don't see what is wrong with saying "I was doing well, got caught with a shot that I shouldn't have - won't happen again" - that's not being disrespectful to Carl IMO, that is just some strong self belief - which is fine.
He said he would like to fight Froch again and he still believed he could beat him. His tone was very different to the end of the first fight in which he really pressured the public and Carl into the rematch. He knew any 3rd fight would have to be a voluntary (and I am not talking about sanctioning bodies here) for Carl. However, he did always state that the 3rd fight would be Carl's call and perfectly understandable if he said no..... he hasn't called Carl a wimp for retiring without a 3rd fight or claiming any unfinished business.
Not everyone is going to be like Richie Woodhall vs Glenn Catley and admit defeat.
Those words just show how utterly deluded he is. He wanted a 3rd fight? Jeez, give it a rest George I'm sick of hearing his whining. Both Froch fights were very close, it's not like he had a shut-out on the cards and then got caught with one lucky punch is it. He was nicking the first fight and Froch was up on a couple of cards in the second fight.
He was NOT gaining control of the second fight, how can anyone even think that? He went ragged and tired again and got caught with bombs again. In both fights Froch was coming on strong into the championship rounds and got rid of his man. For me Groves now just becomes an opponent, an away fighter picking up dough and might pull off the odd interesting upset like Andy Lee, the second bit only if he gets rid of that twattish trainer and goes back to someone with a top level pedigree.
Re: Groves disputes decision
Posted: 14 Sep 2015, 07:47
by Happy Slapper
If he doesn't go back to Adam Booth cap in hand he's finished. If he does go back to Booth, I think he can come again.
Re: Groves disputes decision
Posted: 14 Sep 2015, 07:48
by johnswan1
And still nobody knows why Groves and Booth split. I would love to know. If anybody does know please PM me and I promise to keep it a secret.
Re: Groves disputes decision
Posted: 14 Sep 2015, 07:49
by Marlo Stanfield
He's been Fitzpatrick'd. Needs to get back to Booth before he turns into a stepping stone for prospects
Re: Groves disputes decision
Posted: 14 Sep 2015, 07:49
by PredatorHayds
I thought Jack nicked it.
Luckily for him there's a lot of good super middles in the UK so he should get a good payday.
Personally I think Callum Smith beats him.
Groves against Martin Murray would be a good fight. Real crossroads fight.
Re: Groves disputes decision
Posted: 14 Sep 2015, 07:55
by chrisnew86
The way Groves jumped up from that knock down was deffo a hang over from the Froch fights, he seemed really keen to show the ref he wasnt hurt, from then on he tried to hard and lost the fight.
Re: Groves disputes decision
Posted: 14 Sep 2015, 07:55
by johnswan1
Marlo Stanfield wrote:He's been Fitzpatrick'd. Needs to get back to Booth before he turns into a stepping stone for prospects
Shit or bust fight next with Murray/Fielding/Smith. They could call it "Crossroads" and promote it with the song:
Now tell me whatcha gonna do
when there ain't no where to run (tell me what)
(When judgment comes for you, when judgment comes for you)
And whatcha gonna do
when there ain't no where to hide (tell me what)
When judgment comes for you (Cause it's gonna come for you)
Re: Groves disputes decision
Posted: 14 Sep 2015, 07:57
by bripez
johnswan1 wrote:And still nobody knows why Groves and Booth split. I would love to know. If anybody does know please PM me and I promise to keep it a secret.
Me too !
At best Groves needs to step back and re-group. How about a fight with Buglioni - this could be sold to the uninitiated as a big fight, but should be very winnable (if he can't beat Buglioni then that would indicate what level he is at).
There are loads of domestic fights available between Degale, Groves, Smith, Murray, Fielding, Blackledge, Buglioni etc. - I wonder how many will be made ?
Re: Groves disputes decision
Posted: 14 Sep 2015, 07:58
by keirw
I don't know what happened between him and Booth but I get the feeling that we won't ever see them working together again.
But a change of trainer is definitely required, someone who knows what they are doing and understands the importance of conditioning, like Tibbs or Ingle
Re: Groves disputes decision
Posted: 14 Sep 2015, 08:00
by Boxerbeetle
johnswan1 wrote:Marlo Stanfield wrote:He's been Fitzpatrick'd. Needs to get back to Booth before he turns into a stepping stone for prospects
poo or bust fight next with Murray/Fielding/Smith. They could call it "Crossroads" and promote it with the song:
Now tell me whatcha gonna do
when there ain't no where to run (tell me what)
(When judgment comes for you, when judgment comes for you)
And whatcha gonna do
when there ain't no where to hide (tell me what)
When judgment comes for you (Cause it's gonna come for you)
Great idea, although would it be the Bone Thugs n Harmony original or the Blazing Squad cover?
Re: Groves disputes decision
Posted: 14 Sep 2015, 08:02
by johnswan1
Anybody know if Groves is still giving out the gingerbread man biscuits?
Be interesting to see if his next purse is enough to cover the cost of the weigh in cheerleaders and drum band.
Re: Groves disputes decision
Posted: 14 Sep 2015, 08:05
by Tarkus
Marlo Stanfield wrote:He's been Fitzpatrick'd. Needs to get back to Booth before he turns into a stepping stone for prospects
Its a question whether he's been Cobra'd, Fitzpatrick'd or bit of both. But I think he passed it, I doubt Booth can help him now. He is in similar state as Chisora, he can still beat C level fighters but championship doors are closed for him forever.