BoxRec

American Heavyweights.... and you can't list Marciano or Dempsey or Tunney or Jefferies?

To have George Foreman on the list, I think is slightly odd... for one reason... if you took away the KO of Michael Moorer from Foreman's legacy... all you have is when he blowed out Frazier in Jamaica. Minus the regaining of the title, one can argue, possibly, Foreman doesn't crack the top ten of all time.

Least that is my own thoughts.

Sonny Liston, on the other hand, one can make the case that he is better remembered for his LOSSES to Ali than anything else. And really his legacy only goes up in stock when you pose the question "What if Ali never existed?"... Would he of been the greatest had that of never happened? Sure, Liston was a powerhouse. But like Foreman, he got exposed. To me I find it surprising that he, also, makes the list.

Marciano and Dempsey definitely should have been in that top ten list. Nobody personified the early half of the 20th century more than Jack Dempsey did and the sport/division wouldnt recover from his retirement for almost two decades. Now, Harry Wills deserves to be there--- though he never won a title--- but in my view, this should have been a champions list.

HomicideHenry wrote:American Heavyweights.... and you can't list Marciano or Dempsey or Tunney or Jefferies?

To have George Foreman on the list, I think is slightly odd... for one reason... if you took away the KO of Michael Moorer from Foreman's legacy... all you have is when he blowed out Frazier in Jamaica. Minus the regaining of the title, one can argue, possibly, Foreman doesn't crack the top ten of all time.

Least that is my own thoughts.

Sonny Liston, on the other hand, one can make the case that he is better remembered for his LOSSES to Ali than anything else. And really his legacy only goes up in stock when you pose the question "What if Ali never existed?"... Would he of been the greatest had that of never happened? Sure, Liston was a powerhouse. But like Foreman, he got exposed. To me I find it surprising that he, also, makes the list.

Marciano and Dempsey definitely should have been in that top ten list. Nobody personified the early half of the 20th century more than Jack Dempsey did and the sport/division wouldnt recover from his retirement for almost two decades. Now, Harry Wills deserves to be there--- though he never won a title--- but in my view, this should have been a champions list.

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride. Foreman also knocked out Ken Norton, Ron Lyle and George Chuvalo in his first career. That's a very solid resume.

The Revival wrote:I feel like Wladimir deserves recognition for what he's accomplished. I realize he's from a weaker era, arguably one of the weakest eras in Heavyweight history, but he's also been one of the most dominant Heavyweight Champions of all time. He's currently in the midst of the 3rd Longest Reign ever as Heavyweight Champion. 18 title defenes as of this moment, with a successful 19th defense likely coming by the end of next month.

Even in a weaker era that's nothing to sneeze at.

Mike Tyson was Champion in a weak era, arguably just as weak as the one Wladimir reigns in, and he only managed to make 9 title defenses before being knocked out by Buster Douglas yet most people don't hesitate to put him on ATG lists, even though Wladimir has now reigned for twice as long.

This era makes the late 80s look like a golden age.

Klitschko was not the undisputed champ until after beating Chagaev, so you can't say he has 19 title defenses akin to a Holmes or Louis. Pre-Chagaev he held paper belts. He also has never managed to beat a great fighter and lost to 3 mediocre ones.

dempseyfire wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:American Heavyweights.... and you can't list Marciano or Dempsey or Tunney or Jefferies?

To have George Foreman on the list, I think is slightly odd... for one reason... if you took away the KO of Michael Moorer from Foreman's legacy... all you have is when he blowed out Frazier in Jamaica. Minus the regaining of the title, one can argue, possibly, Foreman doesn't crack the top ten of all time.

Least that is my own thoughts.

Sonny Liston, on the other hand, one can make the case that he is better remembered for his LOSSES to Ali than anything else. And really his legacy only goes up in stock when you pose the question "What if Ali never existed?"... Would he of been the greatest had that of never happened? Sure, Liston was a powerhouse. But like Foreman, he got exposed. To me I find it surprising that he, also, makes the list.

Marciano and Dempsey definitely should have been in that top ten list. Nobody personified the early half of the 20th century more than Jack Dempsey did and the sport/division wouldnt recover from his retirement for almost two decades. Now, Harry Wills deserves to be there--- though he never won a title--- but in my view, this should have been a champions list.

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride. Foreman also knocked out Ken Norton, Ron Lyle and George Chuvalo in his first career. That's a very solid resume.

He's got as good of an argument as anyone as being #3 behind Ali and Louis.

I don't care what anybody in this forum says. If the greats Rocky Marciano and Jack Dempsey are not in the top 5 heavyweights, this list does not have a great knowledge of the history of boxing