Quigg-McDonnell Frampton-Wake

[rd350lc]

strange one that , why would Frampton ( who should be in his fighting prime) be taking so long off ? you would think he would be ringing fastcar at every opportunity to get the quigg match made while the fight is still hot , or even santa cruz for that matter , has his last fight dented his confidence somewhat ?

[Crease]

Didn't know Frampton had said that. Quite disappointing. Was waiting for an announcement.

Yeah, it can be seen here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/boxing/34380253

From what I've been reading it seems they are back in negotiations with Quigg but can't see that happening til next summer.

I am Carl's friend on Facebook and he had said that negotiations are going well and that it's the big fight that he's interested in.

[Crease]

Pretty sure the IBF demand one mandatory every 9 months not every year-

Yeah, but the IBF has always been riddled with inconsistency, especially toward the Super Bantamweight division over the past 2/3 years... But let's not go there.

[Crease]

Frampton's always been too inactive for my liking

Really?

Looking at his record, Carl has fought twice a year for the past 3 years in a row (since beating Martinez the 1st time).... Compare that to other elite boxers in different weight divisions, and it's really not that a bad a ratio...

That's a bit of a strange thing to say...

[littlepug]

Frampton's always been too inactive for my liking

Really?

Looking at his record, Carl has fought twice a year for the past 3 years in a row (since beating Martinez the 1st time).... Compare that to other elite boxers in different weight divisions, and it's really not that a bad a ratio...

That's a bit of a strange thing to say...

twice a year is active ?

[Boxing Prospect]

Twice a year is pretty inactive, but compared to Rigondeaux...wow he really is active I guess ;)

[magnus]

He's not been active enough for my liking. I think he's an excellent fighter, but hardly proved himself as "elite" (if you're talking about the likes of Mayweather, Cotto, Pac etc).

[Crease]

twice a year is active ?

I didn't say that, but twice-per-year should be the bare minimum that an elite fighter should be fighting per annum... As Mayweather has done over the past three years or so. So, in that regard, I don't see why Carl is being specifically pointed out as being inactive when compared to others...

For examples:
Miguel Cotto has only fought once in the years of 2013, 2014 & 2015 (thus far)
Sergio Martinez fought once in 2013 & 2014.
Andre Ward fought once in 2012 & 2013 - and never fought in 2014.

As I say, compared to some of the other elite fighters of recent times, Frampton should not be ridiculed.

[Crease]

you would think he would be ringing fastcar at every opportunity to get the quigg match made while the fight is still hot

I can't speak for Carl, but I'm of the opinion that his most recent scare(s) in my last fight and shown him (and us) just how fortunes can change with a single punch. Carl should go for this big money fight will the interest is still there, the fight won't be anywhere near as big if either of them should lose. Strike while the iron is hot.

or even santa cruz for that matter , has his last fight dented his confidence somewhat ?

Santa Cruz is now a fully fledged Featherweight, he has the WBA Title now and everything... And let's face it, Santa Cruz hasn't exactly been breaking down walls to get the fights against Frampton or Quigg.

[expe]

twice a year is active ?

I didn't say that, but twice-per-year should be the bare minimum that an elite fighter should be fighting per annum... As Mayweather has done over the past three years or so. So, in that regard, I don't see why Carl is being specifically pointed out as being inactive when compared to others...

For examples:
Miguel Cotto has only fought once in the years of 2013, 2014 & 2015 (thus far)
Sergio Martinez fought once in 2013 & 2014.
Andre Ward fought once in 2012 & 2013 - and never fought in 2014.

As I say, compared to some of the other elite fighters of recent times, Frampton should not be ridiculed.

Ward had contractual issues, Martinez was injured and Cotto is a big enough name that he can sit around while he waits for a fight that will make him the sort of money he wants to come up.

There's no real excuse for Frampton to not fight more often, it's been 2 and a half months since his last fight and he doesn't have another one confirmed yet, they knew Wake was his mandatory, so why couldn't it have been sorted for November/December? McGuigan/Cyclone have done a great job with Frampton, but they take far too long to get fights sorted.

[Crease]

There's no real excuse for Frampton to not fight more often

Carl ripped ligaments in his hand this time last year when he fought Martinez. Then, had to be speeded back to take a mandatory challenge against Avalos - then, had a (surprisingly) difficult fight in the US - all in all - it's been a very good (and hard) year for Carl.

And let me tell you something else, I can't remember the last time that a Champion has had to fight 2 different mandatory challengers in the same calendar year... I think we're probably going back to Bernard Hopkins doping it when he was a Middleweight.

The IBF gave Martinez a lot of flexibility before he was forced to fight Carl, it's funny how they won't give Carl the same.

[expe]

There's no real excuse for Frampton to not fight more often

Carl ripped ligaments in his hand this time last year when he fought Martinez. Then, had to be speeded back to take a mandatory challenge against Avalos - then, had a (surprisingly) difficult fight in the US - all in all - it's been a very good (and hard) year for Carl.

And let me tell you something else, I can't remember the last time that a Champion has had to fight 2 different mandatory challengers in the same calendar year... I think we're probably going back to Bernard Hopkins doping it when he was a Middleweight.

The IBF gave Martinez a lot of flexibility before he was forced to fight Carl, it's funny how they won't give Carl the same.

He fought Avalos just under 6 months after Martinez, that isn't being rushed back it's the very least that should be expected of him.

The IBF rules, as do the WBA and WBO, probably the WBC too, say that the champion has to fight a mandatory challenger every 9 months, where possible the IBF stick to that,

Martinez won the title then had to fight his mandatory 4 months later, the only flexibility he was given was when he was allowed to have a voluntary against Frampton instead of fighting Avalos, who could have pushed the IBF to get his shot last September when it was due, but was happy to wait.

[whiskey]

I can see Quigg being Frampton's last fight at the weight by the sounds of it.

[Crease]

He fought Avalos just under 6 months after Martinez, that isn't being rushed back it's the very least that should be expected of him.

Announcements were made last October indicating that Avalos would need to be given a shot asap... Carl had very little time off after his recovery period. He fought Avalos as soon as he possibly could, or would you expect him to fight with ripped ligaments in his hand?

The IBF rules, as do the WBA and WBO, probably the WBC too, say that the champion has to fight a mandatory challenger every 9 months, where possible the IBF stick to that

I've had this conversation before, but the IBF didn't operate like that over the past couple of years, there was a very messy and confused situation for a long while there.
Here's a quick breakdown of the events of what happened:

Feb 2013 - Frampton beats Martinez to win the European Title in what was a world title eliminator.
Summer 2013 - Jeffrey Mathebula (voluntary challenger) suffers an injury and is replaced by Martinez.
August 2013 - Martinez defeats Jhonny Romero and becomes the new IBF Champion.
October 2013 - Frampton successfully defends his European title against Parodi in what is billed as an "IBF final eliminator"
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Now things get a little tricky....

Dec 2013 - Martinez is allowed a voluntary defense against Mathebula and wins by KO.
Apr 2014 - Martinez is allowed (another) voluntary defense against Hasegawa.
Apr 2014 - Frampton gets fed up of waiting (after winning 2 title eliminators) on the IBF to sanction his shot, so she fights in a WBC Title eliminator which he also wins.

By what right was Mathebula moved up ahead of Frampton? He was only ever a voluntary defense which was decided by Romero's management. Then the IBF allowed Martinez to defend against Hasegawa ahead of Frampton?

There's just no logical reasoning or consistency in their approach in this weight class.

[Stuarty]

Didn't know Frampton had said that. Quite disappointing. Was waiting for an announcement.

Yeah, it can be seen here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/boxing/34380253

From what I've been reading it seems they are back in negotiations with Quigg but can't see that happening til next summer.

I am Carl's friend on Facebook and he had said that negotiations are going well and that it's the big fight that he's interested in.

Cheers mate. Fingers crossed it comes off! Would love Carl to stick one over Hearn.

[expe]

Mathebula was a mandatory, his third fight with Takalani Ndlovu was a final eliminator. After Martinez beat Mathebula he then had 9 months until he had to make his next mandatory defence, which should have been Avalos, so he fought Hasegawa in Japan as a voluntary. Frampton's first fight against Martinez wasn't an eliminator and he was never mandatory for the title, no one was moved above him, Martinez was allowed to fight him instead of Avalos who was mandatory, so if anything it was Frampton who got the leg up.

Donaire vacated and moved up, the two highest ranked fighters, Lopez and Romero, fought for the vacant title.

Mathebula beat Ndlovu in a final eliminator, Romero had a voluntary against Martinez and lost, who then fought Mathebula.

Frampton won an eliminator against Parodi, then decided to go the WBC route instead and Martinez had a voluntary against Hasegawa.

Avalos then won an eliminator against Ishimoto, Martinez had a voluntary against Frampton and lost, then Frampton fought Avalos.

I don't really see what the IBF has done wrong in all that.

[Crease]

Expe, if I am wrong, I'd be the first one to say it, but I think that you are incorrect in some of the statements you have made.

Mathebula was a mandatory, his third fight with Takalani Ndlovu was a final eliminator.

Where exactly is that stated? Mathebula was a former IBF Champ until Donaire took the title off him. The trilogy fight against Ndlovu was certainly considered "the decider" between them, but I never heard of it being an official title eliminator or anything of the sort.

After Martinez beat Mathebula he then had 9 months until he had to make his next mandatory defence, which should have been Avalos

This conflicts with another one of your statements,

Frampton won an eliminator against Parodi

Martinez beat Mathebula in December 2013 - how could Avalos be next in line if you recognise that Carl's victory over Parodi was a title eliminator when it took place 2 months earlier?

[Boxing Prospect]

Mathebula Vs Ndlovu III was apparently an eliminator (http://boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Fight:1783197) [Fought March 2013)
Mathebula Vs Martinez was fought around 9 months later

Can't see anything about Frampton/Parodi being an eliminator

Avalos Vs Ishimoto was also an eliminator (Fought May 2014) with Avalos getting his shot against Frampton about 9 months after the bout

[Crease]

Can't see anything about Frampton/Parodi being an eliminator

[Stuarty]

Can't see anything about Frampton/Parodi being an eliminator

Was over for that fight. Great night.

[Crease]

Was over for that fight. Great night.

I was there too. The atmosphere was electric.

[Boxing Prospect]

I stand corrected (worth noting he got Martinez 11 months after the Parodi fight)

[Crease]

I stand corrected (worth noting he got Martinez 11 months after the Parodi fight)

Indeed... That's my point, he really had to wait and wait for his shot.

[expe]

Expe, if I am wrong, I'd be the first one to say it, but I think that you are incorrect in some of the statements you have made.

Mathebula was a mandatory, his third fight with Takalani Ndlovu was a final eliminator.

Where exactly is that stated? Mathebula was a former IBF Champ until Donaire took the title off him. The trilogy fight against Ndlovu was certainly considered "the decider" between them, but I never heard of it being an official title eliminator or anything of the sort.

After Martinez beat Mathebula he then had 9 months until he had to make his next mandatory defence, which should have been Avalos

This conflicts with another one of your statements,

Frampton won an eliminator against Parodi

Martinez beat Mathebula in December 2013 - how could Avalos be next in line if you recognise that Carl's victory over Parodi was a title eliminator when it took place 2 months earlier?

A lot of the time with the IBF fighters have to win two eliminators to become mandatory, an eliminator for the number 2 spot, then a final eliminator. Just because Frampton won an eliminator doesn't mean he automatically became mandatory, a quick look back at the IBF rankings shows that, he was never ranked higher than 2.

[handsofstone]

Frampton's always been too inactive for my liking

Really?

Looking at his record, Carl has fought twice a year for the past 3 years in a row (since beating Martinez the 1st time).... Compare that to other elite boxers in different weight divisions, and it's really not that a bad a ratio...

That's a bit of a strange thing to say...

Its a pretty poor ratio IMO,he and the others should be fighting 3 or 4 times a year