BoxRec

When did the WBO become legit you asked tiny-acres :?? I think it was when legit World Champion's starting fighter for it have you heard of
Naseem Hamed what about De La Hoya/Tapia/Camacho/Hearns and more recently The Pacman and The IBF became Legit around the time
Larry Holmes gave up the WBC to become the IBF Champion and then True World class fighter's like Jeff Fenech became Champion's to give it credibility even before Legend's like B-Hop who made defence after defence against the cream of the crop that's about the time tiny-acres

Have you ever seen any of these fighter's fight or better yet have you ever heard of these fighter's ya ready :??
i'll stop there guess what they all have in common they are all IBO WORLD CHAMPION'S

Rey Loreto
Lwandile Sityatha
Juan Carlos Payano
Paulus Ambunda
Lusanda Komanisi

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:When did the WBO become legit you asked tiny-acres :?? I think it was when legit World Champion's starting fighter for it have you heard of
Naseem Hamed what about De La Hoya/Tapia/Camacho/Hearns and more recently The Pacman and The IBF became Legit around the time
Larry Holmes gave up the WBC to become the IBF Champion and then True World class fighter's like Jeff Fenech became Champion's to give it credibility even before Legend's like B-Hop who made defence after defence against the cream of the crop that's about the time tiny-acres

Have you ever seen any of these fighter's fight or better yet have you ever heard of these fighter's ya ready :??
i'll stop there guess what they all have in common they are all IBO WORLD CHAMPION'S

Rey Loreto
Lwandile Sityatha
Juan Carlos Payano
Paulus Ambunda
Lusanda Komanisi

If you've not seen Payano vs Warren I'd have to question how much of a fan you are...but Wladimir Klitschko, GGG, Hekkie Budler, and Erislandy Lara also hold IBO titles, does that not give it legitimacy in.your eyes

Also Loreto is awesome, huge punching Filipino with a few very good wins

Regarding the WBA,does the Super champ have different mandatories from the Regular champ?

HW - Klitschko (WBA/WBO/IBF) vs. Wilder (WBC)
LHW - Kovalev (WBA/WBO/IBF) vs. Stevenson (WBC)
MW - Golovkin/Lemeiux (WBA/IBF) vs. Lee (WBO) & Cotto/Canelo (WBC)
SB - Rigondeaux (WBA/WBO) vs. Frampton (IBF) & Santa Cruz (WBC)
FLY - Estrada (WBA/WBO) vs. Ruenroeng (IBF) & Gonzalez (WBC)

any chance of any of these fights happening?

wesshaw1985 wrote:HW - Klitschko (WBA/WBO/IBF) vs. Wilder (WBC)
LHW - Kovalev (WBA/WBO/IBF) vs. Stevenson (WBC)
MW - Golovkin/Lemeiux (WBA/IBF) vs. Lee (WBO) & Cotto/Canelo (WBC)
SB - Rigondeaux (WBA/WBO) vs. Frampton (IBF) & Santa Cruz (WBC)
FLY - Estrada (WBA/WBO) vs. Ruenroeng (IBF) & Gonzalez (WBC)

any chance of any of these fights happening?

If Fighters, promoters, managers, advisers, TV stations, governing bodies can all agree on money, venue, dates, weights, rematch clauses, gloves etc then yeah I don't see why not......

danamba7 wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote:HW - Klitschko (WBA/WBO/IBF) vs. Wilder (WBC)
LHW - Kovalev (WBA/WBO/IBF) vs. Stevenson (WBC)
MW - Golovkin/Lemeiux (WBA/IBF) vs. Lee (WBO) & Cotto/Canelo (WBC)
SB - Rigondeaux (WBA/WBO) vs. Frampton (IBF) & Santa Cruz (WBC)
FLY - Estrada (WBA/WBO) vs. Ruenroeng (IBF) & Gonzalez (WBC)

any chance of any of these fights happening?

If Fighters, promoters, managers, advisers, TV stations, governing bodies can all agree on money, venue, dates, weights, rematch clauses, gloves etc then yeah I don't see why not......

ill take that as a no then.

better question, what fight/fights are more likely to happen?

wesshaw1985 wrote:

danamba7 wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote:HW - Klitschko (WBA/WBO/IBF) vs. Wilder (WBC)
LHW - Kovalev (WBA/WBO/IBF) vs. Stevenson (WBC)
MW - Golovkin/Lemeiux (WBA/IBF) vs. Lee (WBO) & Cotto/Canelo (WBC)
SB - Rigondeaux (WBA/WBO) vs. Frampton (IBF) & Santa Cruz (WBC)
FLY - Estrada (WBA/WBO) vs. Ruenroeng (IBF) & Gonzalez (WBC)

any chance of any of these fights happening?

If Fighters, promoters, managers, advisers, TV stations, governing bodies can all agree on money, venue, dates, weights, rematch clauses, gloves etc then yeah I don't see why not......

ill take that as a no then.

better question, what fight/fights are more likely to happen?

Yeah sorry just a little pop at boxing in its current state.

I'm not 100% sure about Fly but none of the others seem close unfortunately. I really thought we were going to get treated to Kova V Adonis when they were fighting on the same cards but that typically went tits up! I get the feeling GGG will fight anyone so maybe him v the winner of Cotto Canelo could be the mega fight of 2016.

tiny_acres wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:Undisputed is pretty simply owning all four belts. Lineal Champion is basically "the man that beat the man". Sergio Martinez was the lineal Middleweight Champion until Cotto defeated him and now Cotto is the lineal champ even though he never fights at the required Middleweight weight limits but that's another story.

Another example of the confusing state of boxing; Serge Kovalev owns 3 out of the 4 belts at light heavy but Adonis Stevenson is considered the "lineal" champion because he beat Chad Dawson who was lineal champion at the time. Chad Dawson earlier beat lineal champion Bernard Hopkins for the title.

I think it's the sports writers and pundits trying to ignore the multitude of belts in each division. I think it's THEIR way to crown 1 legitimate champion per division which makes sense to me. I do believe in lineal champion idea but it doesn't hold water when guys like Adonis refuse to fight Kovalev and put that title on the line so i think that is one case where Kovalev will soon be considered Lineal Champ without beating the guy that beat the guy. And i agree whole heartedly.

\

You can not change Lineal...It is the lineage of the title.You have to beat the Lineal champ.
Or the lineage must be broken to declare a new Lineal

Agreed but I'm referring to the court of public opinion. I think that most people consider Kovalev the King of the hill in the light heavy division right now. He's fighting the top contenders in the division and he's fighting often. Adonis recanted on his verbal agreement to fight Kovalev and has since fought absolute garbage opponents. Adonis is an absolute joke in most people's eyes and he's holding the lineal title hostage at this point. So yes, Adonis is still the Lineal Champion but now people say it tongue in cheek, even the announcers. No one considers it to be legit.

caldo2025 wrote: Agreed but I'm referring to the court of public opinion. I think that most people consider Kovalev the King of the hill in the light heavy division right now. He's fighting the top contenders in the division and he's fighting often. Adonis recanted on his verbal agreement to fight Kovalev and has since fought absolute garbage opponents. Adonis is an absolute joke in most people's eyes and he's holding the lineal title hostage at this point. So yes, Adonis is still the Lineal Champion but now people say it tongue in cheek, even the announcers. No one considers it to be legit.

The same with Cotto.

Boxing Prospect wrote:

TheWigwam wrote:There's a female boxer at the moment who holds all of the belts I think, her name escapes me though!

Braekhus, who is now chasing an IBO title as well

Whilst not technically the same we do have a WBA/WBC Atomweight title fight coming up, that will unify 2 of the 3 recognised titles at the weight.

Thta's the one, cheers mate - see she's undefeated too

tiny_acres wrote:

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:

ikorolev wrote:Undisputed champion is a one holding 4 major belts. There are none. The closest ones are Wlad and Kovalev.

THANK YOU SOME PEOPLE SHOULD STOP MOVING THE FU..ING GOAL POST'S WHEN IT SUITS THEM LIKE INCLUDING THE IBO AS ONE OF THE 4 MAJOR
GOVERNING BODY OF LEGIT WORLD CHAMPION'S AND INTERIM DOESN'T QUALIFY YOU HAS A WORLD CHAMPION EITHER NOW THE LAST TIME I CHECKED YOU ARE GIVEN THE TAG AS UNDISPUTED WORLD CHAMPION WHEN YOU HOLD ALL 4 LEGIT WORLD TITLE'S AT THE SAME TIME THE WBO DID'NT MAKE THE CUT IN IT'S EARLY DAY'S BACK THEN YOU ONLY HAD TO HOLD THE OTHER 3 TO BE UNDISPUTED WORLD CHAMPION
EVEN MAYWEATHER WAS'NT UNDISPUTED IN ANY WEIGHT CLASS HE BOXED IN..............

I'm still trying to figure out when the WBO became a legit world title.
One day it was a joke and then the next day it was legit.
Hell I remember the same thing with the IBF 30 years ago....What makes a belt legit?

If I remember rightly Tommy hearns won the WBO super middle weight belt and that gave it some kudos

ikorolev wrote:Undisputed champion is a one holding 4 major belts. There are none. The closest ones are Wlad and Kovalev.

I tend to go along with this line of reasoning. There is no contemporary fighter who has conclusively defeated all of his peers. Wladimir Klitschsko probably comes closest to this, but even at that - he hasn't defeated Deontay Wilder, Tyson Fury or Anthony Joshua.

the IBHOF recognizes the WBC, WBA, IBF, WBO.
so that is probably the major reason why those 4 belts are considered real titles.
as far as why, the lineage goes like this:

NYSAC world title was the most legit going back to the 30's i think.
fighters from around the world fought for it and the best fighters held it.
you still had other big titles, like the BBBofC, EBU, latin and asian titles, etc.
because the promoters in other states didn't want the NYSAC to have a monopoly
on world title fights, they formed the NBA, but for the most part it was an alternative
title, as NYSAC titlist had almost always already beaten the NBA titlist if they had
already fought and if there was a unification the NYSAC always won. the NYSAC
then joined all the other major titles listed above in mexico to form the WBC, which
instantly became the one linear world title. the NBA changed it's name to the WBA,
to once again become an alternative title to the real champs (best fighters held WBC),
and invited secondary commissions from around the world to govern it, but it was
taken over by the latin countries. in the 80's the USBA broke off and created the IBF title,
and then the caribbean countries broke off and formed the WBO, so the WBA broke into
3 pieces. that is why those 4 are the major titles recognized by the IBHOF.

sucracristo wrote:the IBHOF recognizes the WBC, WBA, IBF, WBO.
so that is probably the major reason why those 4 belts are considered real titles.
as far as why, the lineage goes like this:

NYSAC world title was the most legit going back to the 30's i think.
fighters from around the world fought for it and the best fighters held it.
you still had other big titles, like the BBBofC, EBU, latin and asian titles, etc.
because the promoters in other states didn't want the NYSAC to have a monopoly
on world title fights, they formed the NBA, but for the most part it was an alternative
title, as NYSAC titlist had almost always already beaten the NBA titlist if they had
already fought and if there was a unification the NYSAC always won. the NYSAC
then joined all the other major titles listed above in mexico to form the WBC, which
instantly became the one linear world title. the NBA changed it's name to the WBA,
to once again become an alternative title to the real champs (best fighters held WBC),
and invited secondary commissions from around the world to govern it, but it was
taken over by the latin countries. in the 80's the USBA broke off and created the IBF title,
and then the caribbean countries broke off and formed the WBO, so the WBA broke into
3 pieces. that is why those 4 are the major titles recognized by the IBHOF.

Interesting thanks

Boxing Prospect wrote:

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:When did the WBO become legit you asked tiny-acres :?? I think it was when legit World Champion's starting fighter for it have you heard of
Naseem Hamed what about De La Hoya/Tapia/Camacho/Hearns and more recently The Pacman and The IBF became Legit around the time
Larry Holmes gave up the WBC to become the IBF Champion and then True World class fighter's like Jeff Fenech became Champion's to give it credibility even before Legend's like B-Hop who made defence after defence against the cream of the crop that's about the time tiny-acres

Have you ever seen any of these fighter's fight or better yet have you ever heard of these fighter's ya ready :??
i'll stop there guess what they all have in common they are all IBO WORLD CHAMPION'S

Rey Loreto
Lwandile Sityatha
Juan Carlos Payano
Paulus Ambunda
Lusanda Komanisi

If you've not seen Payano vs Warren I'd have to question how much of a fan you are...but Wladimir Klitschko, GGG, Hekkie Budler, and Erislandy Lara also hold IBO titles, does that not give it legitimacy in.your eyes

Also Loreto is awesome, huge punching Filipino with a few very good wins

listen buddy get back to me when you find out when GGG and WLAD made their LAST MANDATORY DEFENCE OF THEIR IBO WORLD TITLE and for some-one to try and insinuate that the IBO is for real has no boxing knowledge in my view its people like you that kill the sport

Boxing Prospect wrote:

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:When did the WBO become legit you asked tiny-acres :?? I think it was when legit World Champion's starting fighter for it have you heard of
Naseem Hamed what about De La Hoya/Tapia/Camacho/Hearns and more recently The Pacman and The IBF became Legit around the time
Larry Holmes gave up the WBC to become the IBF Champion and then True World class fighter's like Jeff Fenech became Champion's to give it credibility even before Legend's like B-Hop who made defence after defence against the cream of the crop that's about the time tiny-acres

Have you ever seen any of these fighter's fight or better yet have you ever heard of these fighter's ya ready :??
i'll stop there guess what they all have in common they are all IBO WORLD CHAMPION'S

Rey Loreto
Lwandile Sityatha
Juan Carlos Payano
Paulus Ambunda
Lusanda Komanisi

If you've not seen Payano vs Warren I'd have to question how much of a fan you are...but Wladimir Klitschko, GGG, Hekkie Budler, and Erislandy Lara also hold IBO titles, does that not give it legitimacy in.your eyes

Also Loreto is awesome, huge punching Filipino with a few very good wins

Loreto is awesome with all due respect to Loreto with a 20-13 record he wouldn't have many other fighter's in his weight in the world losing much sleep I'd imagine as for Payano good record what his he a SUPER champion now because he won the IBO to go with his WBA THAT MEENS HIS MANAGEMENT CAN BUY TIME AND PICK AND CHOOSE WHO HE FIGHT'S...............BUT ANYWAYS JUST FIND OUT Boxing Prospect when...LARA/GGG/WLAD MADE THEIR LAST IBO MANDATORY......................I CAN'T WAIT...QUICKLY NOW

I would contend that upon Vitali's retirement, Wlad was a form of undisputed champion, since he held 4 of the 5 major belts, and the 5th belt was vacant.

Apart from that opinion, the only recent undisputeds have been Lennox, Hopkins, and Jermain Taylor. It's funny that although the term "champion" has become extraordinarily watered down in the modern era, the title of undisputed champion has become impossibly unattainable compared to in the past.

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:

Boxing Prospect wrote:

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:When did the WBO become legit you asked tiny-acres :?? I think it was when legit World Champion's starting fighter for it have you heard of
Naseem Hamed what about De La Hoya/Tapia/Camacho/Hearns and more recently The Pacman and The IBF became Legit around the time
Larry Holmes gave up the WBC to become the IBF Champion and then True World class fighter's like Jeff Fenech became Champion's to give it credibility even before Legend's like B-Hop who made defence after defence against the cream of the crop that's about the time tiny-acres

Have you ever seen any of these fighter's fight or better yet have you ever heard of these fighter's ya ready :??
i'll stop there guess what they all have in common they are all IBO WORLD CHAMPION'S

Rey Loreto
Lwandile Sityatha
Juan Carlos Payano
Paulus Ambunda
Lusanda Komanisi

If you've not seen Payano vs Warren I'd have to question how much of a fan you are...but Wladimir Klitschko, GGG, Hekkie Budler, and Erislandy Lara also hold IBO titles, does that not give it legitimacy in.your eyes

Also Loreto is awesome, huge punching Filipino with a few very good wins

Loreto is awesome with all due respect to Loreto with a 20-13 record he wouldn't have many other fighter's in his weight in the world losing much sleep I'd imagine as for Payano good record what his he a SUPER champion now because he won the IBO to go with his WBA THAT MEENS HIS MANAGEMENT CAN BUY TIME AND PICK AND CHOOSE WHO HE FIGHT'S...............BUT ANYWAYS JUST FIND OUT Boxing Prospect when...LARA/GGG/WLAD MADE THEIR LAST IBO MANDATORY......................I CAN'T WAIT...QUICKLY NOW

Your point was that the WBO became legit after real champions began holding titles. The IBO has legit champions holding their belts, that, as you pointed out, hasn't made them legit, so your reasoning in regards to the WBO is probably not right either.

If anything the WBO became legit after public awareness grew, that wasn't immediately due to the top fighters winning those, but it certainly did help.

As for Rey Loreto, he's ranked in the top 5 by the WBA and WBC and is top 15 ranked by the IBF. Records don't tell the full story of a fighters ability. Heck Loreto twice iced Joyi and also battered Porpramook.

As for Payano he won the WBA super title by beating Anselmo Moreno...but then again lets not have facts show how ignorant you are.

Lackeos wrote:I would contend that upon Vitali's retirement, Wlad was a form of undisputed champion, since he held 4 of the 5 major belts, and seethe 5th belt was vacant.

Apart from that opinion, the only recent undisputeds have been Lennox, Hopkins, and Jermain Taylor. It's funny that although the term "champion" has become extraordinarily watered down in the modern era, the title of undisputed champion has become impossibly unattainable compared to in the past.

5 major belts? Jumping the gun a bit there mate

littlepug wrote:

Lackeos wrote:I would contend that upon Vitali's retirement, Wlad was a form of undisputed champion, since he held 4 of the 5 major belts, and seethe 5th belt was vacant.

Apart from that opinion, the only recent undisputeds have been Lennox, Hopkins, and Jermain Taylor. It's funny that although the term "champion" has become extraordinarily watered down in the modern era, the title of undisputed champion has become impossibly unattainable compared to in the past.

5 major belts? Jumping the gun a bit there mate

Why?

Who decides if a belt is major or not?

Syntax Error wrote:

littlepug wrote:

Lackeos wrote:I would contend that upon Vitali's retirement, Wlad was a form of undisputed champion, since he held 4 of the 5 major belts, and seethe 5th belt was vacant.

Apart from that opinion, the only recent undisputeds have been Lennox, Hopkins, and Jermain Taylor. It's funny that although the term "champion" has become extraordinarily watered down in the modern era, the title of undisputed champion has become impossibly unattainable compared to in the past.

5 major belts? Jumping the gun a bit there mate

Why?

Who decides if a belt is major or not?

Its a shared responsibility between boxers, fans, trade magazines, tv and whoever else is involved in the sport, so if the IBO becomes mainstream you can shoulder some of the blame for putting it out there

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:try and insinuate that the IBO is for real has no boxing knowledge in my view its people like you that kill the sport

you tell 'im! when roy jones jr, floyd mayweather jr, lennox lewis, ricky hatton, manny pacquiao, nonito donaire,
bernard hopkins, antonio tarver, etc, were all #1 in their divison defending that IBO title, they had no knowledge of
boxing either. then there are bum HOFers like sergio martinez and tommy hearns who also had no boxing knowledge
who held the IBO, any many other IBO winners who also won titles from the other 4 like naseem hamed, danny green,
glen johnson, jean pascal, vic darchinyan, etc. none had any boxing knowledge at all.

littlepug wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:

littlepug wrote:5 major belts? Jumping the gun a bit there mate

Why?

Who decides if a belt is major or not?

Its a shared responsibility between boxers, fans, trade magazines, tv and whoever else is involved in the sport, so if the IBO becomes mainstream you can shoulder some of the blame for putting it out there

If you've followed boxing closely for years, you would know that there are a multiple of situations in which the WBC, WBO, WBA, and IBF have pulled some epic horsesh*t to completely strip away any credibility that they could have. For instance, the WBC stripped Chad Dawson in 2008 because he was trying to unify with Tarver, who had the IBF and IBO. Then, in 2009, the IBF stripped Chad Dawson because he was trying to unify with Johnson, who had the interim WBC. In all of the time that I've been on boxrec, which is plenty of time, I have seen dozens of threads for each of the WBC, WBO, WBA, and IBF exposing just this type of sh*t that they routinely pull. There have been pretty close to 0 threads about the IBO doing this throughout the years. They may be perceived as small potatoes in comparison to the other 4 organizations, but they have demonstrated the greatest integrity among the top 5, and they also have by far the most credible rankings among the big 5. The IBO can't necessarily convince their #1-rated fighter to fight their #2-rated fighter, but their rankings aren't the joke that is the WBO ranking Charles Martin the #2 heavyweight in the world, or the WBA whose top 5 heavyweights include VACANT, Lucas Browne, Fres Oquendo, and Shannon Briggs. I mean, imagine that. The top 5 heavyweights aren't Wlad, Povetkin, Pulev, Wilder, and Fury; they're VACANT, Fury, Browne, Oquendo, and Briggs. Who would've thunk it, right? The WBA says the #1 Cruiserweight in the world is Beibut Shumenov. The IBF's top 2 Cruiserweights are "NOT RATED" and also "NOT RATED". In fact, in 11 different weight divisions, the IBF's top 2 fighters are "NOT RATED" and "NOT RATED".

Mate I agree they are flawed to fcuk but please don't give any more orgs credibility as its confusing enough as it is.

It's practically impossible for there ever to be an undisputed champion if the requirement is to hold all 4 belts. That's difficult enough to achieve in itself but to be able to hold onto all 4 for any length of time is even more difficult due to different rankings and different mandatories across the governing bodies lists.