BoxRec

palooka wrote:We've been lucky as fans to have seen Manny and Floyd in their primes, both are remarkable boxers and very contrasting styles of fighting.

Yes sir.You said it best

zojo, wrote:

ttornado wrote:]
Not 154

150 catchweight

But, what did those guys weigh come fight time?

I'm not trying to take away from Pacquiao's achievement, I have a problem with those that misrepresent the facts for their own agenda.
Margarito was the much bigger man and he took a beating.

Chepppaaa wrote: look, roy jones is a no brainer, he is #1 the best boxer ever.

tiny_acres wrote:

palooka wrote:We've been lucky as fans to have seen Manny and Floyd in their primes, both are remarkable boxers and very contrasting styles of fighting.

Yes sir.You said it best

thank you, you're very polite.

zojo, wrote:OK, I've mentioned Carpentier twice in this thread (the guy did jump a bunch of weightclasses (from 114lbs to 175lbs).

Anywho, as you all know, his match vs. Dempsey was the first boxing match that had a million dollar gate.

Dempsey got a guaranteed $300,000 and George received a guaranteed $200,000

That's a lot of money back them.

However, I found an inflation calculator online that states that $200,000 in 1921 is "only" worth $2,420,742 today.

I guess the top paid boxers of today are paid pretty well compared to their historical brethren.

Carpentier wasn't world champ at those weights amazing record but not as good as Manny's

stevedoc wrote:

zojo, wrote:OK, I've mentioned Carpentier twice in this thread (the guy did jump a bunch of weightclasses (from 114lbs to 175lbs).

Anywho, as you all know, his match vs. Dempsey was the first boxing match that had a million dollar gate.

Dempsey got a guaranteed $300,000 and George received a guaranteed $200,000

That's a lot of money back them.

However, I found an inflation calculator online that states that $200,000 in 1921 is "only" worth $2,420,742 today.

I guess the top paid boxers of today are paid pretty well compared to their historical brethren.

Carpentier wasn't world champ at those weights amazing record but not as good as Manny's

To be fair they also didn't have 4 or five world champs per division...

punchoutsb wrote:

stevedoc wrote:

zojo, wrote:OK, I've mentioned Carpentier twice in this thread (the guy did jump a bunch of weightclasses (from 114lbs to 175lbs).

Anywho, as you all know, his match vs. Dempsey was the first boxing match that had a million dollar gate.

Dempsey got a guaranteed $300,000 and George received a guaranteed $200,000

That's a lot of money back them.

However, I found an inflation calculator online that states that $200,000 in 1921 is "only" worth $2,420,742 today.

I guess the top paid boxers of today are paid pretty well compared to their historical brethren.

Carpentier wasn't world champ at those weights amazing record but not as good as Manny's

To be fair they also didn't have 4 or five world champs per division...

You're right about the belts but Georges career started when he was 14 so of course he went through the weights ,it's like Joe Calzaghe went from feather weight to light heavy because he weighed 9 stone as a junior amateur

stevedoc wrote: You're right about the belts but Georges career started when he was 14 so of course he went through the weights ,it's like Joe Calzaghe went from feather weight to light heavy because he weighed 9 stone as a junior amateur

Manny's started at 16 in a dirt poor country from a dirt poor family...

punchoutsb wrote:

stevedoc wrote: You're right about the belts but Georges career started when he was 14 so of course he went through the weights ,it's like Joe Calzaghe went from feather weight to light heavy because he weighed 9 stone as a junior amateur

Manny's started at 16 in a dirt poor country from a dirt poor family...

I know that the point I'm making is that Manny was world champ from fly to light middle he didn't just box at many weight like carpentier ,

stevedoc wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:

stevedoc wrote: You're right about the belts but Georges career started when he was 14 so of course he went through the weights ,it's like Joe Calzaghe went from feather weight to light heavy because he weighed 9 stone as a junior amateur

Manny's started at 16 in a dirt poor country from a dirt poor family...

I know that the point I'm making is that Manny was world champ from fly to light middle he didn't just box at many weight like carpentier ,

I know that, and I don't dispute the facts. I'm merely pointing out that both started young and grew, which is nothing out of the ordinary. The difference is that guys like Carpentier, Langford, and Armstrong didn't have the option of selecting from FOUR world titles per weight class like Manny did.

JCS wrote:How about that Mayweather guy?

better, but somewhat less spectacular.

That's a good point but do the boxers really have 4 titles to shoot for? If you're highly rated in one organisation then one of the others drop you from their ratings. It's more usual for a boxer to be under a promotional banner that deals almost exclusively with one governing body.

Though there used to be one champion pwr weight class sometimes a better fighter than the champion was frozen out.

palooka wrote:That's a good point but do the boxers really have 4 titles to shoot for? If you're highly rated in one organisation then one of the others drop you from their ratings. It's more usual for a boxer to be under a promotional banner that deals almost exclusively with one governing body.

Though there used to be one champion pwr weight class sometimes a better fighter than the champion was frozen out.

There's a lot of posturing that can be done today that couldn't have happened in the past. We've got a heavyweight champion who's fought one top 25 guy in his career. That never used to happen.

So while it's not a true "pick of litter" situation, the fact that there are 4 title belts (5 if you count the IBO) means you've got a much better chance at getting one. Manny himself has won four alphabet belts, and is only missing a WBA (he won the IBO 140 I believe). Which of the 8 divisions Manny won a title in was he the clear number one in? That would be a more concise comparison.

I mean heck, Andrien Broner was a welterweight world champion at a time when he probably wasn't even top ten in the division.

Didn't Primo Carnera get manoeuvred to a title he wasn't really up to holding?

I don't want to get into a 'yes/but' game and there were some funny games going on in the good old days.

Boxing is littered with funny games, it's true.

punchoutsb wrote:Boxing is littered with funny games, it's true.

When I first got into boxing seriously I loved reading about Jimmy McClarnin, Barney Ross etc. I really thought a lot of McClarnin - reading the reports of his bouts and the knockouts he scored, I really rates him. Years later I read a biography and it was clear that his manager had used money and influence to make sure the weight was in McClarnin's favour every time and his big victories were against smaller men. He was able to do this because he was the big draw.

Fighters used to get frozen out a lot more than happens today look at Archie Moore or even hagler to an extent, the mob owned many fighters and it was much more corrupt than today

palooka wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:Boxing is littered with funny games, it's true.

When I first got into boxing seriously I loved reading about Jimmy McClarnin, Barney Ross etc. I really thought a lot of McClarnin - reading the reports of his bouts and the knockouts he scored, I really rates him. Years later I read a biography and it was clear that his manager had used money and influence to make sure the weight was in McClarnin's favour every time and his big victories were against smaller men. He was able to do this because he was the big draw.

It's a fun sport, and I think part of it's legendary status comes from it's shady underbelly.

I would be interested to hear your opinion on my Pac question. Which divisions that he won titles in would you say he was the clear number one guy in?

stevedoc wrote:Fighters used to get frozen out a lot more than happens today look at Archie Moore or even hagler to an extent, the mob owned many fighters and it was much more corrupt than today

Corruption can take many faces.

stevedoc wrote:Fighters used to get frozen out a lot more than happens today look at Archie Moore or even hagler to an extent, the mob owned many fighters and it was much more corrupt than today

There was a big scandal in the 70's with Don King and The Ring magazine.

Off the top of my head, super bantam, feather and light welter (I can't remember who was around at lightweight) he's not been the top welters or light middle, Floyd would have beaten him).

palooka wrote:We've been lucky as fans to have seen Manny and Floyd in their primes, both are remarkable boxers and very contrasting styles of fighting.

This

There may be a few guys in recent decade who have matched it, such as Floyd, Hopkins or RJJ. perhaps even slightly bettered it, but not by much

but lets just appreciate the great fighters we've witnessed

It's like the Ronaldo vs Messi argument in Football (not Soccer..)
Let's just appreciate that we've witnessed 2 of the best (if not the best) in history of the game.

zojo, wrote:OK, I've mentioned Carpentier twice in this thread (the guy did jump a bunch of weightclasses (from 114lbs to 175lbs).

Anywho, as you all know, his match vs. Dempsey was the first boxing match that had a million dollar gate.

Dempsey got a guaranteed $300,000 and George received a guaranteed $200,000

That's a lot of money back them.

However, I found an inflation calculator online that states that $200,000 in 1921 is "only" worth $2,420,742 today.

I guess the top paid boxers of today are paid pretty well compared to their historical brethren.

carpentier, stop your nonsense...the dude lost 7 fights in his first 30 fights against guys with 1-1-1 records stop the nonsense, pacquiao career a trillion times better than carpentier

Chepppaaa wrote:

zojo, wrote:OK, I've mentioned Carpentier twice in this thread (the guy did jump a bunch of weightclasses (from 114lbs to 175lbs).

Anywho, as you all know, his match vs. Dempsey was the first boxing match that had a million dollar gate.

Dempsey got a guaranteed $300,000 and George received a guaranteed $200,000

That's a lot of money back them.

However, I found an inflation calculator online that states that $200,000 in 1921 is "only" worth $2,420,742 today.

I guess the top paid boxers of today are paid pretty well compared to their historical brethren.

carpentier, stop your nonsense...the dude lost 7 fights in his first 30 fights against guys with 1-1-1 records stop the nonsense, pacquiao career a trillion times better than carpentier

You said you don't believe in official records because they can be fake. Don't be a stupid hypocrite...be consistent and just be stupid.

punchoutsb wrote:

Chepppaaa wrote:

zojo, wrote:OK, I've mentioned Carpentier twice in this thread (the guy did jump a bunch of weightclasses (from 114lbs to 175lbs).

Anywho, as you all know, his match vs. Dempsey was the first boxing match that had a million dollar gate.

Dempsey got a guaranteed $300,000 and George received a guaranteed $200,000

That's a lot of money back them.

However, I found an inflation calculator online that states that $200,000 in 1921 is "only" worth $2,420,742 today.

I guess the top paid boxers of today are paid pretty well compared to their historical brethren.

carpentier, stop your nonsense...the dude lost 7 fights in his first 30 fights against guys with 1-1-1 records stop the nonsense, pacquiao career a trillion times better than carpentier

You said you don't believe in official records because they can be fake. Don't be a stupid hypocrite...be consistent and just be stupid.

hahahaha ...so if he lost once, than maybe, but 7 times ...so 7 bad descisions and actualy carp won, yeah sure