BoxRec

Counter-puncher wrote:I don't think p4p Lemoeux hits that much harder than Viloria if at all. And I think Viloria 'showed up' waaaay more than Lemieux, in the sense.of being visibly more willing to get punched in the face on account of actually throwing quite a lot of his own punches, with conviction, none of which I saw much of from lemieux

To the contrary, Lemieux threw, he was just missing by four inches or so thanks to 3G's jab and lemieux's T Rex arms.

I disagree with you on the power issue. Lemieux has the greater one punch capability, IMO. Of course, in order for that power to work you have to be able to reach the target.

Viloria at 160 hypothetical scaled-up pounds would fuckin KILL Lemieux

Counter-puncher wrote:Viloria at 160 hypothetical scaled-up pounds would fuckin KILL Lemieux

Lemieux with normal length arms would have had more success Saturday night.

So what you are saying is Viloria is better than 3G given Gennady failed to kill Lemieux.

You take conjecture to a whole new level with that post.

I don't think Viloria has a 3G level jab if he gets scaled up to Tyson Fury dimensions, tbh.

Tanzio wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:Viloria at 160 hypothetical scaled-up pounds would fuckin KILL Lemieux

So what you are saying is Viloria is better than 3G given Gennady failed to kill Lemieux.

You take conjecture to a whole new level with that post

I don't think Viloria has a 3G level jab if he gets scaled up to Tyson Fury dimensions, tbh.

Not really what I am saying, no. I'm saying that because Viloria has the advantages you mentioned over Lemieux in skill experience etc, manglefvcking him is more impressive than powerfucking Lemieux.

And he wouldn't need the jab vs Lemieux. He could left hook him to death, among other things.

hm. if there was a computer program that could
rank fighters, clearly the guy who is 44-0 against
solid opposition must be very high up there.

reality about his record is that this very computer
program might put him behind deontay wilder of
all fighters.

i don't say he is not great or should not be high
up in rankings, but no1 seems a ... stretch.

Ian1973 wrote:Wladimir is number one his longevity and overall record sees to that.

especially p4p wlad seems questionable, since
this way of looking at fighters abstracts from
their weight and analyses their pure abilities.
woad's tactics often depend on him having a
pure physical advantage, which he clearly could
not have in a lower weight class IMO.

Naandrew wrote:

Boxing Prospect wrote:

Bobbyptsd wrote:I could see Gonzalez or Golovkin being #1. If someone suggested Kovalev they'd get no argument from me. I would mention Ward, but that's hard to say when his last win over two years is an unmotivated Paul Smith. If Inoue recovers (he was injured to my understanding) and becomes active again I think he could certainly be mentioned.

Basically, I don't think it's that clear, there are other contenders to what's always going to be a subjective title. But that's pretty much always true in boxing.

Apparently he'll be back December 29th vs Parrenas in a mandatory, probably a Narvaez rematch early next year then too

Narvaez rematch

He's said he's enforcing a rematch clause...aka the biggest payday available

Longevity means next to nothing on a lb for lb list (I don't recall Johnny Nelson or Sven Ottke topping many lb for lb lists back in the day).

Gonzales is clear #1 right now . . maybe you make a case for Golovkin but I think Roman is the more complete fighter. A case for Wlad as #1 (or in the top 5 . . he maybe squeaks into the top 10 simply based on the shallow state of boxing right now but I can probably easily think of 10 fighters who should be above him) is borderline retarded. That Fat Dan thinks so only proves my point.

dempseyfire wrote:A case for Wlad as #1 (or in the top 5 . . he maybe squeaks into the top 10 simply based on the shallow state of boxing right now but I can probably easily think of 10 fighters who should be above him) is borderline retarded.

I'm glad someone said it. Also, fwiw, Ottke's overall record was considerably better than Wlad's.

Riddick Blowe wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:A case for Wlad as #1 (or in the top 5 . . he maybe squeaks into the top 10 simply based on the shallow state of boxing right now but I can probably easily think of 10 fighters who should be above him) is borderline retarded.

I'm glad someone said it. Also, fwiw, Ottke's overall record was considerably better than Wlad's.

no.

man wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:A case for Wlad as #1 (or in the top 5 . . he maybe squeaks into the top 10 simply based on the shallow state of boxing right now but I can probably easily think of 10 fighters who should be above him) is borderline retarded.

I'm glad someone said it. Also, fwiw, Ottke's overall record was considerably better than Wlad's.

no.

Yes. And someone like Michalczewski's was too. Where was Dariusz ever in the p4p conversations? He might have sneaked in at some point in the early 00s, but I don't recall. OK, Klit's probably in there, just. But still. Boxing must be pretty weak right now to have Wlad in the p4p top 10.

The P4P no.1 needs to be somebody who is marketable. Gonzalez's marketability like it or not is limited because midget boxing will always carry minority interest. On that basis, GGG should get the recognition as P4P no.1.

Here's a question, what is the lowest weight division to headline a major (i.e. HBO/Showtime) PPV? Has there ever even been one at Featherweight?

johnswan1 wrote:
Here's a question, what is the lowest weight division to headline a major (i.e. HBO/Showtime) PPV? Has there ever even been one at Featherweight?

Naz - Kelley/ Naz-Barrera?

johnswan1 wrote:The P4P no.1 needs to be somebody who is marketable. Gonzalez's marketability like it or not is limited because midget boxing will always carry minority interest. On that basis, GGG should get the recognition as P4P no.1.

Here's a question, what is the lowest weight division to headline a major (i.e. HBO/Showtime) PPV? Has there ever even been one at Featherweight?

p4p has nothing to do with being marketable.....do u even follow boxing, such a stupid comment

Chepppaaa wrote:

johnswan1 wrote:The P4P no.1 needs to be somebody who is marketable. Gonzalez's marketability like it or not is limited because midget boxing will always carry minority interest. On that basis, GGG should get the recognition as P4P no.1.

Here's a question, what is the lowest weight division to headline a major (i.e. HBO/Showtime) PPV? Has there ever even been one at Featherweight?

p4p has nothing to do with being marketable.....do u even follow boxing, such a stupid comment

Well actually it's a subjective thing, you nitwit.

Floyd was the undisputed and consensus P4P no.1. Now that he's gone there are a few contenders - primarily Gonzales, GGG, Kovalev, Ward & Rigondeaux.

P4P status is a big draw to boxing, people want to see the best guy in the world, but it doesn't sell well if he's a midget (hence why HBO and Showtime have traditionally kept midget boxing off screen) so GGG is a much better fit.

If you say Gonzalez is the P4P no.1 and king of the 112 lb fighters average Joe would look at you and say "are you for real, I could beat him up myself". If you say GGG is the P4P no.1 and king of the Middleweights average Joe would think "what a badass, who should I direct my funds to for the PPV".

johnswan1 wrote:

Chepppaaa wrote:

johnswan1 wrote:The P4P no.1 needs to be somebody who is marketable. Gonzalez's marketability like it or not is limited because midget boxing will always carry minority interest. On that basis, GGG should get the recognition as P4P no.1.

Here's a question, what is the lowest weight division to headline a major (i.e. HBO/Showtime) PPV? Has there ever even been one at Featherweight?

p4p has nothing to do with being marketable.....do u even follow boxing, such a stupid comment

Well actually it's a subjective thing, you nitwit.

Floyd was the undisputed and consensus P4P no.1. Now that he's gone there are a few contenders - primarily Gonzales, GGG, Kovalev, Ward & Rigondeaux.

P4P status is a big draw to boxing, people want to see the best guy in the world, but it doesn't sell well if he's a midget (hence why HBO and Showtime have traditionally kept midget boxing off screen) so GGG is a much better fit.

If you say Gonzalez is the P4P no.1 and king of the 112 lb fighters average Joe would look at you and say "are you for real, I could beat him up myself". If you say GGG is the P4P no.1 and king of the Middleweights average Joe would think "what a badass, who should I direct my funds to for the PPV".

who cares what stupid regular fans might think. they dont even know p4p lists. regular fans watch known star boxers like tyson, de la hoya or mayweather, regardless if they were called #1 boxer in the world or not.

p4p has always been about who is the best regardless of weight and height in the areas speed, power, technic, iq, footwork etc....

Chepppaaa wrote:
who cares what stupid regular fans might think. they dont even know p4p lists. regular fans watch known star boxers like tyson, de la hoya or mayweather, regardless if they were called #1 boxer in the world or not.

p4p has always been about who is the best regardless of weight and height in the areas speed, power, technic, iq, footwork etc....

But you are one of those stupid regular fans.

Most English speaking fans pay very little attention to what goes on below Bantamweight which is why I don't think a little guy should be recognised as P4P no.1.

For me the world of boxing revolves around what happens between Bantam and Heavy. Most midget fights take place in the far East and are rarely showcased on US/UK TV so it's almost like a different sport in itself if you live in one of those countries.

Tanzio wrote:

PredatorHayds wrote:

Tanzio wrote:WKlit
Krusher
3G
Chocolatito
Crawford
GingerHead
Brook
Walters
Stevenson
Postol

Postol is nowhere near a Top 10 P4P ranking at the moment.
Matthysse is his only big win so far.
He needs to face Crawford to decide if he's even the best LWW in the world.

You may have also noticed that I have two welters and two light heavies in my list.

Postol only has one good win on his record. No way does he deserve to be in top 10

johnswan1 wrote:

Chepppaaa wrote:
who cares what stupid regular fans might think. they dont even know p4p lists. regular fans watch known star boxers like tyson, de la hoya or mayweather, regardless if they were called #1 boxer in the world or not.

p4p has always been about who is the best regardless of weight and height in the areas speed, power, technic, iq, footwork etc....

But you are one of those stupid regular fans.

Most English speaking fans pay very little attention to what goes on below Bantamweight which is why I don't think a little guy should be recognised as P4P no.1.

For me the world of boxing revolves around what happens between Bantam and Heavy. Most midget fights take place in the far East and are rarely showcased on US/UK TV so it's almost like a different sport in itself if you live in one of those countries.

i am the biggest boxing expert in this site

johnswan1 wrote:

Chepppaaa wrote:

johnswan1 wrote:The P4P no.1 needs to be somebody who is marketable. Gonzalez's marketability like it or not is limited because midget boxing will always carry minority interest. On that basis, GGG should get the recognition as P4P no.1.

Here's a question, what is the lowest weight division to headline a major (i.e. HBO/Showtime) PPV? Has there ever even been one at Featherweight?

p4p has nothing to do with being marketable.....do u even follow boxing, such a stupid comment

Well actually it's a subjective thing, you nitwit.

Floyd was the undisputed and consensus P4P no.1. Now that he's gone there are a few contenders - primarily Gonzales, GGG, Kovalev, Ward & Rigondeaux.

P4P status is a big draw to boxing, people want to see the best guy in the world, but it doesn't sell well if he's a midget (hence why HBO and Showtime have traditionally kept midget boxing off screen) so GGG is a much better fit.

If you say Gonzalez is the P4P no.1 and king of the 112 lb fighters average Joe would look at you and say "are you for real, I could beat him up myself". If you say GGG is the P4P no.1 and king of the Middleweights average Joe would think "what a badass, who should I direct my funds to for the PPV".

It's not often I side with the biggest boxing expert on this site, the legendary Mr Chepppaaa but he is right.
The ring magazine p4p list perhaps takes marketability and popularity into account.
But it shouldn't. P4P should be about being the best in the sport, regardless of weight. It should weigh up all physical, technical and mental attributes required to beat another fighter to determine who is the very best fighter and would be expected to beat any other fighter if they were matched in terms of weight and height.

Whether they can sell MSG out, get 800k ppv buys or get Budweiser to sponsor their shorts shouldn't make a blind bit of difference

Chepppaaa wrote:

johnswan1 wrote:

Chepppaaa wrote:
who cares what stupid regular fans might think. they dont even know p4p lists. regular fans watch known star boxers like tyson, de la hoya or mayweather, regardless if they were called #1 boxer in the world or not.

p4p has always been about who is the best regardless of weight and height in the areas speed, power, technic, iq, footwork etc....

But you are one of those stupid regular fans.

Most English speaking fans pay very little attention to what goes on below Bantamweight which is why I don't think a little guy should be recognised as P4P no.1.

For me the world of boxing revolves around what happens between Bantam and Heavy. Most midget fights take place in the far East and are rarely showcased on US/UK TV so it's almost like a different sport in itself if you live in one of those countries.

i am the biggest boxing expert in this site

Seriously Chep, you need to stop repeating this shit, you only make yourself sound like an arse

Most English speaking fans pay very little attention to what goes on below Bantamweight which is why I don't think a little guy should be recognised as P4P no.1.

For me the world of boxing revolves around what happens between Bantam and Heavy. Most midget fights take place in the far East and are rarely showcased on US/UK TV so it's almost like a different sport in itself if you live in one of those countries.[/quote]

i am the biggest boxing expert in this site[/quote]

Seriously Chep, you need to stop repeating this poo, you only make yourself sound like an arse[/quote]


___________________________________________

he was pushing me, i had to stand my ground, affront me as a "regular fan", that was to much

johnswan1 wrote:

Chepppaaa wrote:
who cares what stupid regular fans might think. they dont even know p4p lists. regular fans watch known star boxers like tyson, de la hoya or mayweather, regardless if they were called #1 boxer in the world or not.

p4p has always been about who is the best regardless of weight and height in the areas speed, power, technic, iq, footwork etc....

But you are one of those stupid regular fans.

Most English speaking fans pay very little attention to what goes on below Bantamweight which is why I don't think a little guy should be recognised as P4P no.1.

For me the world of boxing revolves around what happens between Bantam and Heavy. Most midget fights take place in the far East and are rarely showcased on US/UK TV so it's almost like a different sport in itself if you live in one of those countries.

dont really think their size is an issue, most of the time if both boxers are the same size you cant even tell which weight division they are in and only stand out as small when getting interveiwed ( when watching on tv )

Chepppaaa wrote:

johnswan1 wrote:The P4P no.1 needs to be somebody who is marketable. Gonzalez's marketability like it or not is limited because midget boxing will always carry minority interest. On that basis, GGG should get the recognition as P4P no.1.

Here's a question, what is the lowest weight division to headline a major (i.e. HBO/Showtime) PPV? Has there ever even been one at Featherweight?

p4p has nothing to do with being marketable