"White collar" / "semi pro" back to amateur?

ste1983
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Re: "White collar" / "semi pro" back to amateur?

Post by ste1983 »

mickey1975 wrote:Over the next four weeks I'm at an unlicensed featuring various standards, one a decent ex pro a while ago, a Muay Thai show with a few unlicensed boxers(ticket sellers) on in boxing matches, a heavyweight championship of the world, an amateur show and a charity show. All except one in my home town.
Haha mad isn't it

Now I've always been quite a traditionalist and really only interested in what I class as pro boxing (BBBoC) and stuck to those shows.

But I've now got a mate who does muay thai / cage fighting so go to support him and now another mate whos got his first white colar / unlicensed fight this weekend and I'm going.

I draw the line at those charity ones though and just stick a £5 in the just giving page they stick up on they're facebook ha. The sad fact is a lot of the people going to these shows really don't know the difference so its no wonder more of the local lads will support an unlicensed fighter for £20-£25 but may not bother a proper pro at £30-£40. So I do believe these shows definitely have a effect on attendances of pro shows.
mickey1975
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Re: "White collar" / "semi pro" back to amateur?

Post by mickey1975 »

ste1983 wrote:
mickey1975 wrote:Over the next four weeks I'm at an unlicensed featuring various standards, one a decent ex pro a while ago, a Muay Thai show with a few unlicensed boxers(ticket sellers) on in boxing matches, a heavyweight championship of the world, an amateur show and a charity show. All except one in my home town.
Haha mad isn't it

Now I've always been quite a traditionalist and really only interested in what I class as pro boxing (BBBoC) and stuck to those shows.

But I've now got a mate who does muay thai / cage fighting so go to support him and now another mate whos got his first white colar / unlicensed fight this weekend and I'm going.

I draw the line at those charity ones though and just stick a £5 in the just giving page they stick up on they're facebook ha. The sad fact is a lot of the people going to these shows really don't know the difference so its no wonder more of the local lads will support an unlicensed fighter for £20-£25 but may not bother a proper pro at £30-£40. So I do believe these shows definitely have a effect on attendances of pro shows.
The best value of all those I'm going to will be the amateur(£10) and the charity do(£20). On the last charity show there was 12 FOTY contenders! Everyone went mad... Sold out as well and raised £15,000 for special care. The organisers got nominated for a community pride award.
Sklar
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Re: "White collar" / "semi pro" back to amateur?

Post by Sklar »

mickey1975 wrote:Over the next four weeks I'm at an unlicensed featuring various standards, one a decent ex pro a while ago, a Muay Thai show with a few unlicensed boxers(ticket sellers) on in boxing matches, a heavyweight championship of the world, an amateur show and a charity show. All except one in my home town.
Which one of those is not being held in York, mate?
ste1983
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Re: "White collar" / "semi pro" back to amateur?

Post by ste1983 »

mickey1975 wrote:
ste1983 wrote:
mickey1975 wrote:Over the next four weeks I'm at an unlicensed featuring various standards, one a decent ex pro a while ago, a Muay Thai show with a few unlicensed boxers(ticket sellers) on in boxing matches, a heavyweight championship of the world, an amateur show and a charity show. All except one in my home town.
Haha mad isn't it

Now I've always been quite a traditionalist and really only interested in what I class as pro boxing (BBBoC) and stuck to those shows.

But I've now got a mate who does muay thai / cage fighting so go to support him and now another mate whos got his first white colar / unlicensed fight this weekend and I'm going.

I draw the line at those charity ones though and just stick a £5 in the just giving page they stick up on they're facebook ha. The sad fact is a lot of the people going to these shows really don't know the difference so its no wonder more of the local lads will support an unlicensed fighter for £20-£25 but may not bother a proper pro at £30-£40. So I do believe these shows definitely have a effect on attendances of pro shows.
The best value of all those I'm going to will be the amateur(£10) and the charity do(£20). On the last charity show there was 12 FOTY contenders! Everyone went mad... Sold out as well and raised £15,000 for special care. The organisers got nominated for a community pride award.
Really? The charity ones I mention are just those ones where lads I know have trained for 8 weeks (UWC). I say trained most of them have usually been upto theyre usual antics each weekend :OhYes: and most couldn't fight sleep! Fairplay for them for doing it though thinking of doing one myself just to get a bit fitter but kind of think theyre making a mockery of the sport so in two minds.
TheGman
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Re: "White collar" / "semi pro" back to amateur?

Post by TheGman »

mickey1975 wrote:
thechump wrote:No such thing as semi pro just amateur and pro anyone who thinks unlicensed is semi pro doesnt have the brain power to know the difference between the 3. Some unlicensed fighters have never fought amateur so how can they be semi pro :o
Most unlicensed have never fought amateur so how can they be amateur? Some pros haven't, either.
Still not semi pro,in boxing ther is no such thing as semi pro
mickey1975
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Re: "White collar" / "semi pro" back to amateur?

Post by mickey1975 »

thechump wrote:
mickey1975 wrote:
thechump wrote:No such thing as semi pro just amateur and pro anyone who thinks unlicensed is semi pro doesnt have the brain power to know the difference between the 3. Some unlicensed fighters have never fought amateur so how can they be semi pro :o
Most unlicensed have never fought amateur so how can they be amateur? Some pros haven't, either.
Still not semi pro,in boxing ther is no such thing as semi pro
Then they are pro.
mickey1975
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Re: "White collar" / "semi pro" back to amateur?

Post by mickey1975 »

UWC came here not long ago but I didn't go. It looked like a business more than anything else. All boxers were contracted to train at the same gym(a Muay Thai place!) and the seconds were provided too. It looked pretty crap to be honest.
CharlesListon
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Re: "White collar" / "semi pro" back to amateur?

Post by CharlesListon »

It gets confusing if you use the dictionary definitions of professional, amateur, unlicensed etc. To have any sense of order you have to ignore those definitions.
The generally accepted and agreed terms in the UK are pretty straight forward.
Professional is any boxer licensed by the bbbofc or a foreign association that they recognise.The fact that the vast majority of pro boxers have day jobs doesn't make them semi pro.
Amateur is any boxer carded by an AIBA registered club. ABBA are the international over arching body. The boxer will be registered /carded by either the ABA, WABA etc depending where they live/where their home club is. This includes Team GB Podium and Elite Squad boxers, WSB boxers who actually get paid to train and box. Although by the definition of the dictionary this would make them pro in boxing terms their amateur.
White Collar, Semi -Pro, Unlicensed is any other competing boxer who doesn't fall into either of the category above. I've seen and know some very decent standard lads who fall into this category and some fat, useless gits that would do as well. The standard varies hugely which is what can make it so dangerous and unappealing.
My understanding of the AIBA rules are that you can have a background in other combat sports, but it has to be declared early doors to stand any chance of being allowed to compete and generally being paid is a no no. I think it's a stupid rule.
As long as a boxers previous experiences are known and taken into account so match making is fair it shouldn't be an issue.
What they did to young Ashley Brace on the eve of the commonwealth games was pathetic.
TheGman
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Re: "White collar" / "semi pro" back to amateur?

Post by TheGman »

mickey1975 wrote:UWC came here not long ago but I didn't go. It looked like a business more than anything else. All boxers were contracted to train at the same gym(a Muay Thai place!) and the seconds were provided too. It looked pretty crap to be honest.
Mickey u have been posting on here for years i thought u of all people would know the difference between this unlicensed garbage and pro boxing :o
mickey1975
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Re: "White collar" / "semi pro" back to amateur?

Post by mickey1975 »

thechump wrote:
mickey1975 wrote:UWC came here not long ago but I didn't go. It looked like a business more than anything else. All boxers were contracted to train at the same gym(a Muay Thai place!) and the seconds were provided too. It looked pretty crap to be honest.
Mickey u have been posting on here for years i thought u of all people would know the difference between this unlicensed garbage and pro boxing :o
I do. But technically speaking, unlicensed boxing is pro as they are being paid.
Wales
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Re: "White collar" / "semi pro" back to amateur?

Post by Wales »

leejonesjnr wrote:
'Licensed' by BBU, EBF, EBA, SPBF etc etc are all what is known as unlicensed boxing as I am sure you know.
That is what is known as unliscenced, all im saying is they are actually, on paper, licensed. If that makes sense. Speak to someone like Pete Jackson and he's at great pains to explain how BBU a is liscensed and regulated. Just not by BBBOC.
maley1984
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Re: "White collar" / "semi pro" back to amateur?

Post by maley1984 »

Wales wrote:
leejonesjnr wrote:
'Licensed' by BBU, EBF, EBA, SPBF etc etc are all what is known as unlicensed boxing as I am sure you know.
That is what is known as unliscenced, all im saying is they are actually, on paper, licensed. If that makes sense. Speak to someone like Pete Jackson and he's at great pains to explain how BBU a is liscensed and regulated. Just not by BBBOC.
Pete is local to me put on lots of shows. Like u say bbu fighters r licenced but not sure the medical checks r as in depth like the bbboc. Brain scans etc
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Re: "White collar" / "semi pro" back to amateur?

Post by Wales »

No, to my knowledge BBU don't have mandatory brain scans. Shows must have medics ringside (same medics as the pro shows use are the ones at Welsh BBU shows) and fighters must have "full medicals" 24 hours before every fight. Pete, and the guys that promote for him, stress this isn't unliscenced boxing, it simply isn't liscensed by BBBOC.

Where it falls down is when you see a BBU Boxing belt contested in a cage (not a ring) or 2 fighters who are, for example, 8kg apart, fighting.
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Re: "White collar" / "semi pro" back to amateur?

Post by maley1984 »

Wales wrote:No, to my knowledge BBU don't have mandatory brain scans. Shows must have medics ringside (same medics as the pro shows use are the ones at Welsh BBU shows) and fighters must have "full medicals" 24 hours before every fight. Pete, and the guys that promote for him, stress this isn't unliscenced boxing, it simply isn't liscensed by BBBOC.

Where it falls down is when you see a BBU Boxing belt contested in a cage (not a ring) or 2 fighters who are, for example, 8kg apart, fighting.
My mate fought for the bbu british title in his first fight.
Sklar
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Re: "White collar" / "semi pro" back to amateur?

Post by Sklar »

CharlesListon wrote:It gets confusing if you use the dictionary definitions of professional, amateur, unlicensed etc. To have any sense of order you have to ignore those definitions.
The generally accepted and agreed terms in the UK are pretty straight forward.
Professional is any boxer licensed by the bbbofc or a foreign association that they recognise.The fact that the vast majority of pro boxers have day jobs doesn't make them semi pro.
Amateur is any boxer carded by an AIBA registered club. ABBA are the international over arching body. The boxer will be registered /carded by either the ABA, WABA etc depending where they live/where their home club is. This includes Team GB Podium and Elite Squad boxers, WSB boxers who actually get paid to train and box. Although by the definition of the dictionary this would make them pro in boxing terms their amateur.
White Collar, Semi -Pro, Unlicensed is any other competing boxer who doesn't fall into either of the category above. I've seen and know some very decent standard lads who fall into this category and some fat, useless gits that would do as well. The standard varies hugely which is what can make it so dangerous and unappealing.
My understanding of the AIBA rules are that you can have a background in other combat sports, but it has to be declared early doors to stand any chance of being allowed to compete and generally being paid is a no no. I think it's a stupid rule.
As long as a boxers previous experiences are known and taken into account so match making is fair it shouldn't be an issue.
What they did to young Ashley Brace on the eve of the commonwealth games was pathetic.
All true on paper but there's a lot to be said for further simplification. How confusing is this: if you box for money you're a pro, if you box for fornicate all you're an amateur?
Emmseegee
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Re: "White collar" / "semi pro" back to amateur?

Post by Emmseegee »

Like others have stated, the fact that unlicensed fighters get paid is what classes it as semi pro.
In some ways its similar to football in scotland:
Amateur = No payment
Junior = Paid (sometimes) and I believe its the same as non league in england.
Professional = Paid.

Some of the best amateur teams have more money and ability than the poorer junior teams.
Some of the junior teams have more money and ability than the professional teams.

Nobody says the non league teams make a mockery of football as a sport and nobody discourages amateur players moving into non league if they arent good enough for the professional game. Im not in agreement with how white collar/semi pro is sometimes run but that doesnt mean that there is no place for it. If the professional promotors actually promoted then im sure they would see the rewards. I see more ads, banners and flyers for semi pro shows than I do for pro shows. Maybe the guys in the 'semi-pro' game deserve their title for being semi pro promotors opposed to being semi pro fighters.

How the PED's, health and well being side of it is controlled is more of a concern to me than the fact that exists.
ste1983
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Re: "White collar" / "semi pro" back to amateur?

Post by ste1983 »

there does seem to be an increase in lads going from white collar/unlicensed to pro (BBBoC) rather than the traditional route of Am to Pro.
arlovski
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Re: "White collar" / "semi pro" back to amateur?

Post by arlovski »

ste1983 wrote:there does seem to be an increase in lads going from white collar/unlicensed to pro (BBBoC) rather than the traditional route of Am to Pro.
I’m going that route with one of my lads, and money is the pure motivation. Everyone knows that if a lad is unattached to a major promoter, then ticket sales are essential, probably minimum 100 to be considered on the ‘winning’ side of the bill.
Boxing on unlicensed/semi pro shows are giving him a chance to build a fanbase before he turns over. Rightly or wrongly, his mates (the general public, not hardcore fight fans like us), want to attend shows with a more ‘pro’ feel, and are more bothered about having a good night overall than the standard of fights/fighters on show.

I put on my first show earlier in the year, really nice hotel style venue, a section for VIP dinner guests, the boxers had entrances with their own music, style of shorts etc, to give them more of an identity and create a bit of ‘glamour’, which the crowd loved.
The fights were all competitively matched on strict weight/experience terms, which meant there were some great close, back and forth bouts, creating a brilliant atmosphere and buzz. I had loads of friends who had never considered going to a boxing show who loved the whole event and can’t wait to attend another, some even now going to a local gym and genuinely more interested in the sport as a whole.
If these shows are done well, they provide something that amateur shows can’t, whose events have moved on from the smoky working mens clubs that I used to fight on, but still often take place in stale venues, poor lighting, no fighter entrances/individuality etc, which don’t provide a spectacle or a ‘product’ that many find appealing.

The lad that I’m training that wants to go pro is obviously not boxing the calibre of guys he would in the ABA’s etc, but there are decent standard lads on the circuit, and the money he’s earning is allowing us to buy his equipment, keep his supplements/nutrition on point, travel around sparring ‘proper’ pros, which is where his main development is taking place anyway.
The decent unlicensed/semi pro shows are usually around £25 a ticket, and you usually get a minimum of 10 competitive bouts of varying standard, but crucially most of these could be won by the home or away fighter, so are inevitably exciting when both sides are going for the win.

Contrast this with a small hall pro show I went to a few months ago, 6 fights, every home boxer a novice versus a 5-90 odd journeyman who carried the bouts, not doing much and allowing the prospect to get a few shots off. Zero ‘real’ exchanges, zero excitement, zero sport imo.
Every member of the crowd was there to see an individual mate fight, but me and a couple of others just went as fight fans, and it was utter garbage in terms of entertainment and £45 a ticket to boot.

Boxing is in a weird place in this country at the moment, if I’m honest I’d prefer strict amateur, then pro shows, but with the latter filled with better quality fights, and a chance for genuinely decent lads to rise through the ranks if they were good enough, without having to be their own 2 bit promoter and salesman on twitter/facebook etc.

Those days are gone unfortunately, so we better just deal with it.
It’s disheartening sometimes and I sometimes think is it even worth the hassle for a young lad wanting to turn pro these days, but if it’s their dream, they’re gonna go for it, so it’s nice to be able to try to help someone achieve something, amateur/white collar/unlicensed/pro whatever
TheGman
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Re: "White collar" / "semi pro" back to amateur?

Post by TheGman »

Can someone come on here and show me a license for a boxer who is licensed to fight on bbu then please? I know fighters who fight on these shows for bbu titles but they dont need a license,they dont even get drug checked so to me they are unlicensed until im proved wrong,i can go to my lical gym and train to fight on these shows no license needed,i cant do it for a pro fight or amatuer,just cause they get paid doesnt mean they are pro. Amir khan repoertedly got paid 70 G's a year to stay amateur in 2004 does this mean he is pro cause he got paid :KO:
Sklar
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Re: "White collar" / "semi pro" back to amateur?

Post by Sklar »

thechump wrote: Amir khan repoertedly got paid 70 G's a year to stay amateur in 2004 does this mean he is pro cause he got paid :KO:
Yes. It's boxing that has the terms fucked up not the dictionary.
billy nelson
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Re: "White collar" / "semi pro" back to amateur?

Post by billy nelson »

reggaereggae wrote:I still don't know what 'semi-pro' actually means? Is that basically unlicensed?
theres no such thing as semi pro, as farc as i know the only money they receive is commision from tickets, i respect everyone who goes in a ring but if i were paying money which is equal or in some cases much more than pro boxing,i'd want to watch boxers with a much greater skill set
mickey1975
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Re: "White collar" / "semi pro" back to amateur?

Post by mickey1975 »

I was at one the other night. Some opponents were getting £200/£250 without selling a ticket. One nearly got snapped in half with a body shot... Paul Ingle was there, coincidentally, he led my mate into the ring.
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Re: "White collar" / "semi pro" back to amateur?

Post by leejonesjnr »

ste1983 wrote:there does seem to be an increase in lads going from white collar/unlicensed to pro (BBBoC) rather than the traditional route of Am to Pro.
There is.
Simply because unlicensed boxing is growing very quickly, there weren't the sheer number of participants who might want to turn pro before.
mickey1975
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Re: "White collar" / "semi pro" back to amateur?

Post by mickey1975 »

leejonesjnr wrote:
ste1983 wrote:there does seem to be an increase in lads going from white collar/unlicensed to pro (BBBoC) rather than the traditional route of Am to Pro.
There is.
Simply because unlicensed boxing is growing very quickly, there weren't the sheer number of participants who might want to turn pro before.
And Nick Blakewell showed how it's done last night beating former multi titled junior Jack Arnfield!
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Re: "White collar" / "semi pro" back to amateur?

Post by leejonesjnr »

mickey1975 wrote:
leejonesjnr wrote:
ste1983 wrote:there does seem to be an increase in lads going from white collar/unlicensed to pro (BBBoC) rather than the traditional route of Am to Pro.
There is.
Simply because unlicensed boxing is growing very quickly, there weren't the sheer number of participants who might want to turn pro before.
And Nick Blakewell showed how it's done last night beating former multi titled junior Jack Arnfield!
I don't understand what point you are trying to make?
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