BoxRec

littlepug wrote:

tiny_acres wrote:

littlepug wrote:When the world scene is a bit lacking you need a good domestic scene to fall back on, us guys in the uk are pretty fortunate to have a healthy domestic scene and while not always world class the lure of obtaining the British title and along with it the historically prestigious Lonsdale belt can produce fights of an epic nature. It helps that we also have quite a few lads who are operating at world or on the fringes of world level to keep our interest

Yes I agree they are lucky.People actually follow the British scene.
Here in the states most could care less about the USBA title
I wish Americans took more pride in their fighters.
But the British do it right

I remember when all the top American fighters used to fight for the USBA or NABF title because it seemed an important step

Yeah I think those titles lost their prestige in the late 80's.
But I swear I used to be able to rattle off who was The USBA or NABF champion in any weight
division back then.Now those titles are a joke.

tiny_acres wrote: But I swear I used to be able to rattle off who was The USBA or NABF champion in any weight
division back then.

because those fights were on network tv back then. the usba and nabf still help
a lot with IBF/WBC rankings, but there are a lot more channels to scan to keep
up with it all these days. with 4 major belts + the ibo issuing so many belts
from national to international to continental to intercontinental to interim/silver
and these stupid super titles, nowadays people just keep track of the fighters
and ignore the straps. the bbbofc, commonwealth, and EBU titles still carry
weight over there. i watch all boxing at all levels everywhere when i can
and have cousins in ireland and england and spent time there so even from
this side of the pond those titles can mean something.

You guys..sure have LOT OF ACTIVITY HERE, quickly!
Gennady Golovkin, Manny Pacquiao, Canelo Alverez, Miguel Cotto, Andre Ward and "Krusher" looks like boxing six elite at this moment. That off the top-of-my-head. Problem in that Golovkin insists on keeping "Ibo" belt. Please look in on my fb Chris Uwbcafo-i looking to correct the corners of the Sport and thus GIVE US better "world scope". (Instead of how it is now with "media" looking the other way)
BoxRec could "help" situation with just a little twist. We need RESULTS SHOWN ON LINE BY WEIGHT DIVISIONS. And also FIRST AND LAST NAME.
Yes makes "Big Difference". FAN SINCE 1968.

caldo2025 wrote:In the 4 major sports in life, there's Football (American, don't be silly), Baseball, Basketball and Hockey.

boxing each titlist is supposed to have a voluntary defense against someone
ranked in the top 15 or meeting some other requirement and approved by the
committee. then the titlist has to defend against the mandatory contender.
it doesn't always work out that way but it works out that way more often than
not. we also get unifications in various divisions every month or two.

in mlb, teams only play one division from the other league during the regular
season and then their only chance of seeing someone from the other league
is making it to the world series. that is after a 162 game regular season and
3 rounds of playoffs. we DON'T see the best playing the best across leagues
in baseball on a regular basis.

nfl also only plays one division from other conference during regular season
and then your only chance at seeing the other conference is in the superbowl.

nba and nhl at least have a home and away game during the regular season
with the other conference teams, and then if they make it all the way to the
cup they get to play the other conference again. for 82 game seasons this makes
for interconference meetings between the best teams extremely rare.

pro boxers don't fight as often as they used to, and that isn't going to change,
but when you compare how many times they fight compared to these 16, 82,
162 game big league regular seasons, the top boxers actually do face each other
in many if not most divisions pretty often in comparison. i would compare your
leonard-hearns-duran example with pac-marquez-morales-barrera. i could pull
almost as many from each decade. again, we don't know which fights will be
classics until they happen.

sucracristo wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:In the 4 major sports in life, there's Football (American, don't be silly), Baseball, Basketball and Hockey.

boxing each titlist is supposed to have a voluntary defense against someone
ranked in the top 15 or meeting some other requirement and approved by the
committee. then the titlist has to defend against the mandatory contender.
it doesn't always work out that way but it works out that way more often than
not. we also get unifications in various divisions every month or two.

in mlb, teams only play one division from the other league during the regular
season and then their only chance of seeing someone from the other league
is making it to the world series. that is after a 162 game regular season and
3 rounds of playoffs. we DON'T see the best playing the best across leagues
in baseball on a regular basis.

nfl also only plays one division from other conference during regular season
and then your only chance at seeing the other conference is in the superbowl.

nba and nhl at least have a home and away game during the regular season
with the other conference teams, and then if they make it all the way to the
cup they get to play the other conference again. for 82 game seasons this makes
for interconference meetings between the best teams extremely rare.

pro boxers don't fight as often as they used to, and that isn't going to change,
but when you compare how many times they fight compared to these 16, 82,
162 game big league regular seasons, the top boxers actually do face each other
in many if not most divisions pretty often in comparison. i would compare your
leonard-hearns-duran example with pac-marquez-morales-barrera. i could pull
almost as many from each decade. again, we don't know which fights will be
classics until they happen.

It's a good attempt but if fails to hit the mark you were shooting for, I'm sorry to say. Either way that you slice it up, each of the 4 major sports has a Super 6 type tournament to determine the year's champion. Take a look at Adonis Stevenson and Andre Ward's "Championship Title Defenses" the last 3 years and tell me how that mess relates to the 4 major sports and their determination of champions. I'd surely love to see you solve that rubics cube.

The problem is that the inmates now run the asylum more than ever before. Boxers decide who they fight and who they don't fight. Before, the goal of a boxer was to win a world title and defend it as long as they could. Now, boxers are measured on how many world titles they've won, not how long they've kept a title. So boxers now can throw their title in the garbage and get another title shot in the next fight instead of defending the title (Terrance Crawford, Quillin, too many others to list). Then there's the alphabets that will let Adonis fight absolute garbage and keep his title They will let Andre Ward fight 1 time in 3 years without pulling his title away.

No one is more to blame than Floyd. Floyd created a business model for his career which was to make the most money possible without having to face the best possible opposition available. Floyd actually earned the right to do this by fighting those tough fights early on in his career but nowadays, boxers are not earning it first. They are jumping into the Floyd model first without proving themselves and it's killing the sport. Not only are the boxers on board but so is Haymon and Arum so there you have it. The perfect storm killing my favorite sport.

We get all excited because Cotto and Canelo are fighting next week. We should be getting these types of fights every other month with all the talent in this sport right now.

caldo2025 wrote:

sucracristo wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote: It's not whining.

starting several threads with the premise that you are going to stop watching bla bla is whining.
nobody cares if you stop watching. not everything is about you. we all criticize boxing on here
to one extent or another.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: Your point about the best in other sports only facing one another if they are in the same league makes no sense, if we take 'league' in this instance to mean 'elite level fights in the same weight class'

ok this is how this train of thought went. the OP whines about how boxing is
putrid and getting worse and he is going to stop watching bla bla, and this
is a theme over many threads. i brought up that people who watch other
sports hardly ever talk like that (whining and threatening to leave) despite
all the problems and corruption, etc. yeah we all criticize stuff here but the
issues being brought up have no sense of history, just a few anectodes from
past decades as an example of the way things used to be, and ignoring recent
examples of the stuff he claims doesn't exist anymore. i thus brought up other
sports. he then said the best in other sports always play the best. no, they don't.
i'm not sure how you don't know what league means. league means league.
go to the website of any team and find the links to the league and division stats.
those are the other teams they play. bundasliga doesn't play premier or mls
teams on a regular basis. there are countless examples in the past few years of
the best boxers in many divisions meeting and many discussions currently going
on between camps of top guys. there are coutless examples in the past of top
boxers not fighting each other. constantly saying you want to leave boxing because
it is putrid bla bla and anyone who disagrees doesn't know anything or hasn't been
around or yada yada is sad. i'm just saying maybe he would be happier if he took
a break and watched swimming. that looks like a cleaner sport.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: The best facing the best has always been a problem in boxing

that's what i said

First of all, what the hell is a Bundasliga? it sounds delicious but I've never tried one.

Way to site an example of a sport that no one's even heard about. In the 4 major sports in life, there's Football (American, don't be silly), Baseball, Basketball and Hockey. There's only 4. In each of those sports, the best two teams face off for the championship each year. Get your head out of a hole and look into some other sports other than soccer or whatever a Bundalsiga plays.

It's probably why you don't have a problem with the current state of boxing affairs and love to turn the tube on and pay for a one sided fight. You my friend, are the target audience so I'm glad we figured something out.

Bundasliga is the german football (soccer) - league.

The analogy given is totally stupid though, as teams from the Budesliga, Seria A (Italian to flight), he Premier League (UK), regularly play one another in the champions league, so that analogy falls flat on it's face. The best from each league get the opportunity to prove who is the best in Europe, and on a global level the national teams play at the world cup.

However, to compare a league structure to a non-league sport like boxing is pointless.

With regard to the major sports, outside of North America, Bsketball, Football, Baseball are very small fry, Hockey is far more international.

Aside from fishing, which is a pastime more than a sport, Soccer has by far the most participants and penetration globally.

caldo2025 wrote:

sucracristo wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote: It's not whining.

starting several threads with the premise that you are going to stop watching bla bla is whining.
nobody cares if you stop watching. not everything is about you. we all criticize boxing on here
to one extent or another.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: Your point about the best in other sports only facing one another if they are in the same league makes no sense, if we take 'league' in this instance to mean 'elite level fights in the same weight class'

ok this is how this train of thought went. the OP whines about how boxing is
putrid and getting worse and he is going to stop watching bla bla, and this
is a theme over many threads. i brought up that people who watch other
sports hardly ever talk like that (whining and threatening to leave) despite
all the problems and corruption, etc. yeah we all criticize stuff here but the
issues being brought up have no sense of history, just a few anectodes from
past decades as an example of the way things used to be, and ignoring recent
examples of the stuff he claims doesn't exist anymore. i thus brought up other
sports. he then said the best in other sports always play the best. no, they don't.
i'm not sure how you don't know what league means. league means league.
go to the website of any team and find the links to the league and division stats.
those are the other teams they play. bundasliga doesn't play premier or mls
teams on a regular basis. there are countless examples in the past few years of
the best boxers in many divisions meeting and many discussions currently going
on between camps of top guys. there are coutless examples in the past of top
boxers not fighting each other. constantly saying you want to leave boxing because
it is putrid bla bla and anyone who disagrees doesn't know anything or hasn't been
around or yada yada is sad. i'm just saying maybe he would be happier if he took
a break and watched swimming. that looks like a cleaner sport.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: The best facing the best has always been a problem in boxing

that's what i said

First of all, what the hell is a Bundasliga? it sounds delicious but I've never tried one.

Way to site an example of a sport that no one's even heard about. In the 4 major sports in life, there's Football (American, don't be silly), Baseball, Basketball and Hockey. There's only 4. In each of those sports, the best two teams face off for the championship each year. Get your head out of a hole and look into some other sports other than soccer or whatever a Bundalsiga plays.

It's probably why you don't have a problem with the current state of boxing affairs and love to turn the tube on and pay for a one sided fight. You my friend, are the target audience so I'm glad we figured something out.

The 4 major sports in life ? Are you high ? Who the hell watches those sports outside of USA ? Ive never seen one match of any of those sports, the biggest sport in the world is football ( not your version ) followed by ( in no particular order) rugby, boxing, cricket, golf, athletics and the many other GLOBAL sports the world plays, all you guys have done is take rugby, netball, field hockey and rounders and managed to ruin them all

littlepug wrote: The 4 major sports in life ? Are you high ? Who the hell watches those sports outside of USA ? Ive never seen one match of any of those sports, the biggest sport in the world is football ( not your version ) followed by ( in no particular order) rugby, boxing, cricket, golf, athletics and the many other GLOBAL sports the world plays, all you guys have done is take rugby, netball, field hockey and rounders and managed to ruin them all

Here we go. Another filthy Brit that wandered to the big table from the little table. First off, they have a British Comment Section that you are supposed to be using. The Boxrec people created it for a reason and it's so the adults could have some intelligent conversations without you Ricky Hatton Singing goofballs chiming in with your "Mate" and your Soccer BS. Don't you have a Christmas song you need to convert to a Boxer's song somewhere?

Real Boxing is done in the United States. The biggest fights are done in Vegas or NYC and they are paid in US Currency, not pounds. The examples used are American because that's where real boxing is done. Let's just face facts, everything is done in America. Netball? Field Hockey? Buddy, you got the wrong number. Hang up and try again.

God I hate Brits.

caldo2025 wrote:

littlepug wrote: The 4 major sports in life ? Are you high ? Who the hell watches those sports outside of USA ? Ive never seen one match of any of those sports, the biggest sport in the world is football ( not your version ) followed by ( in no particular order) rugby, boxing, cricket, golf, athletics and the many other GLOBAL sports the world plays, all you guys have done is take rugby, netball, field hockey and rounders and managed to ruin them all

Here we go. Another filthy Brit that wandered to the big table from the little table. First off, they have a British Comment Section that you are supposed to be using. The Boxrec people created it for a reason and it's so the adults could have some intelligent conversations without you Ricky Hatton Singing goofballs chiming in with your "Mate" and your Soccer BS. Don't you have a Christmas song you need to convert to a Boxer's song somewhere?

Real Boxing is done in the United States. The biggest fights are done in Vegas or NYC and they are paid in US Currency, not pounds. The examples used are American because that's where real boxing is done. Let's just face facts, everything is done in America. Netball? Field Hockey? Buddy, you got the wrong number. Hang up and try again.

God I hate Brits.

ha ha made me smile that post, another yank that's never left the comfort of the good old US of A !

Rugby is a terrible example to try and cite as a worldwide sport, really awful example.

Counter-puncher wrote:Rugby is a terrible example to try and cite as a worldwide sport, really awful example.

I know but I bet its played in more countries than American football is

littlepug wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:

littlepug wrote: The 4 major sports in life ? Are you high ? Who the hell watches those sports outside of USA ? Ive never seen one match of any of those sports, the biggest sport in the world is football ( not your version ) followed by ( in no particular order) rugby, boxing, cricket, golf, athletics and the many other GLOBAL sports the world plays, all you guys have done is take rugby, netball, field hockey and rounders and managed to ruin them all

Here we go. Another filthy Brit that wandered to the big table from the little table. First off, they have a British Comment Section that you are supposed to be using. The Boxrec people created it for a reason and it's so the adults could have some intelligent conversations without you Ricky Hatton Singing goofballs chiming in with your "Mate" and your Soccer BS. Don't you have a Christmas song you need to convert to a Boxer's song somewhere?

Real Boxing is done in the United States. The biggest fights are done in Vegas or NYC and they are paid in US Currency, not pounds. The examples used are American because that's where real boxing is done. Let's just face facts, everything is done in America. Netball? Field Hockey? Buddy, you got the wrong number. Hang up and try again.

God I hate Brits.

ha ha made me smile that post, another yank that's never left the comfort of the good old US of A !

You wanna laugh? The wife planned a trip for us to Ireland in March. I dislike the Irish ten times more than the Brits. There's a good chance I may die so if you don't see a post from me after March, congrats.

Hahaha. At least you're not one of those plastic paddy yanks who insist on calling Ireland The Old.Country and harking back to an ancestor 6 generations ago. I like your style. Be sure to tell everyone in Ireland that you don't mind the English that much, that will really endear you, you'll find them even less rational on the subject of English Bastards than you are

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Bundasliga is the german football (soccer) - league.

The analogy given is totally stupid though, as teams from the Budesliga, Seria A (Italian to flight), he Premier League (UK), regularly play one another in the champions league, so that analogy falls flat on it's face. The best from each league get the opportunity to prove who is the best in Europe, and on a global level the national teams play at the world cup.

However, to compare a league structure to a non-league sport like boxing is pointless.

With regard to the major sports, outside of North America, Bsketball, Football, Baseball are very small fry, Hockey is far more international.

Aside from fishing, which is a pastime more than a sport, Soccer has by far the most participants and penetration globally.

my god these arguments are so convoluted. please try to follow linear thought.
i said i never hear this "i'm leaving this sport" whining in any other sport, no matter what the problems are
in them. then the argument is made that some league with 82 game seasons per team sees the best play
the best, and i pointed out the reality that considering how often those teams play (forget about roster size)
that the best don't really face the best very often. you then pipe up and claim that club teams play in the
world cup. the world cup is national teams every 4 years, and there is no guarantee any top premier
league team is going to play the best bundasliga or serie A, etc, in UEFA any given year, never mind
a top conmebol, concacaf, etc. the top guys not wanting to fight each other is NOT NEW, and just
because we can point to it happening in some divisions now, it doesn't mean those guys are never
going to fight, and in many other divisions the top guys ARE fighting!! i'm pretty sure we will get
kovalev-stevenson in the next year. wilder is fighting povetkin in the spring and klit is fighting fury
and there will be other heavy matches made. GGG just added the IBF and will be adding more titles
next year, setting up a bottleneck at middle. lots of great matchups on the horizon at 140, 147, and
154. lower weight classes have had unification fights recently and camps discussing more. this whole
thread is one long whiney trolljob.

I was little bit wondering what is going through the mind that wrote the first post. At the time when the OP brought up the 4 big sports it all come clear to me.

"Association football, more commonly known as football or soccer, is a sport played between two teams of eleven players with a spherical ball. It is played by 250 million players in over 150 countries, making it the world's most popular sport." (Wikipedia, 2015)

There is actually almost as many people playing football as there is people that thinks playing football has something to do with running around the field carrying the ball in hand.

So boxing might have regressed in the states. It is also doing pretty well in other places.

"But but but there has never been good boxer that was not Murican."

If you are not interested in boxers from other countries then it is your problem. You should then be complaining about the state of boxing in the states. There are currently lot of great boxers around the world and great matches do happen.

I have learned that maybe the easiest way to gauge persons intellect is to see how well they can think about situations objectively from multiple viewpoints. The ones that are always stuck on their own viewpoint are usually the ones with lowest IQ :geek2:

Heretic wrote:I was little bit wondering what is going through the mind that wrote the first post. At the time when the OP brought up the 4 big sports it all come clear to me.

"Association football, more commonly known as football or soccer, is a sport played between two teams of eleven players with a spherical ball. It is played by 250 million players in over 150 countries, making it the world's most popular sport." (Wikipedia, 2015)

There is actually almost as many people playing football as there is people that thinks playing football has something to do with running around the field carrying the ball in hand.

So boxing might have regressed in the states. It is also doing pretty well in other places.

"But but but there has never been good boxer that was not Murican."

If you are not interested in boxers from other countries then it is your problem. You should then be complaining about the state of boxing in the states. There are currently lot of great boxers around the world and great matches do happen.

I have learned that maybe the easiest way to gauge persons intellect is to see how well they can think about situations objectively from multiple viewpoints. The ones that are always stuck on their own viewpoint are usually the ones with lowest IQ :geek2:

First off, i've never claimed to be intelligent and if you've read a few more posts from me, you'd witness how far from intelligent i really am.

My point is that there's multiple levels of boxing in the world and the goal of most international boxers is what? To come across the pond and fight at Caesars Palace, MGM or Madison Square Garden. Fighting in the USA is varsity and fighting in Britain or Ireland is Junior Varsity. A truly successful British fighter has to make it here in the states to get world class recognition. Look at Roman Gonzales. Look at Loma. Look at Rigo. GGG...Kovalev.....the list goes on.

USA is where boxing sleeps and eats and the dollars Americans pay for boxing is more valuable then anywhere in the world. So to compare Boxing to the other 4 major sports in the USA is relative because boxing competes directly with those sports and the dollars spent on American's sports entertainment.

If some dope in Liverpool decides to spend his money on a Cricket Match instead of a Boxing PPV event, no one cares. But if someone decides to watch the World Series instead of buying a PPV boxing event, they are directly related.

It's not me being American, it's me having a brain and eyes.

caldo2025 wrote:

Heretic wrote:I was little bit wondering what is going through the mind that wrote the first post. At the time when the OP brought up the 4 big sports it all come clear to me.

"Association football, more commonly known as football or soccer, is a sport played between two teams of eleven players with a spherical ball. It is played by 250 million players in over 150 countries, making it the world's most popular sport." (Wikipedia, 2015)

There is actually almost as many people playing football as there is people that thinks playing football has something to do with running around the field carrying the ball in hand.

So boxing might have regressed in the states. It is also doing pretty well in other places.

"But but but there has never been good boxer that was not Murican."

If you are not interested in boxers from other countries then it is your problem. You should then be complaining about the state of boxing in the states. There are currently lot of great boxers around the world and great matches do happen.

I have learned that maybe the easiest way to gauge persons intellect is to see how well they can think about situations objectively from multiple viewpoints. The ones that are always stuck on their own viewpoint are usually the ones with lowest IQ :geek2:

First off, i've never claimed to be intelligent and if you've read a few more posts from me, you'd witness how far from intelligent i really am.

My point is that there's multiple levels of boxing in the world and the goal of most international boxers is what? To come across the pond and fight at Caesars Palace, MGM or Madison Square Garden. Fighting in the USA is varsity and fighting in Britain or Ireland is Junior Varsity. A truly successful British fighter has to make it here in the states to get world class recognition. Look at Roman Gonzales. Look at Loma. Look at Rigo. GGG...Kovalev.....the list goes on.

USA is where boxing sleeps and eats and the dollars Americans pay for boxing is more valuable then anywhere in the world. So to compare Boxing to the other 4 major sports in the USA is relative because boxing competes directly with those sports and the dollars spent on American's sports entertainment.

If some dope in Liverpool decides to spend his money on a Cricket Match instead of a Boxing PPV event, no one cares. But if someone decides to watch the World Series instead of buying a PPV boxing event, they are directly related.

It's not me being American, it's me having a brain and eyes.

I kind of agree, the biggest fights definitely still happen In America, though I'd say Germany and to a lesser extent the UK do stage some biggies as well.

It is undoubtedly so, that the biggest fights will pretty mucn always occur in the US , and probably in Vegas, because that is where the dollar is to be made.

caldo2025 wrote:

Heretic wrote:I was little bit wondering what is going through the mind that wrote the first post. At the time when the OP brought up the 4 big sports it all come clear to me.

"Association football, more commonly known as football or soccer, is a sport played between two teams of eleven players with a spherical ball. It is played by 250 million players in over 150 countries, making it the world's most popular sport." (Wikipedia, 2015)

There is actually almost as many people playing football as there is people that thinks playing football has something to do with running around the field carrying the ball in hand.

So boxing might have regressed in the states. It is also doing pretty well in other places.

"But but but there has never been good boxer that was not Murican."

If you are not interested in boxers from other countries then it is your problem. You should then be complaining about the state of boxing in the states. There are currently lot of great boxers around the world and great matches do happen.

I have learned that maybe the easiest way to gauge persons intellect is to see how well they can think about situations objectively from multiple viewpoints. The ones that are always stuck on their own viewpoint are usually the ones with lowest IQ :geek2:

First off, i've never claimed to be intelligent and if you've read a few more posts from me, you'd witness how far from intelligent i really am.

Though I do not agree with half of what you post.I don't think you are giving yourself credit.
Sometimes you come up with some thought provoking comments.
I don't need to agree with you but I respect you as a poster.

caldo2025 wrote:

My point is that there's multiple levels of boxing in the world and the goal of most international boxers is what? To come across the pond and fight at Caesars Palace, MGM or Madison Square Garden. Fighting in the USA is varsity and fighting in Britain or Ireland is Junior Varsity. A truly successful British fighter has to make it here in the states to get world class recognition. Look at Roman Gonzales. Look at Loma. Look at Rigo. GGG...Kovalev.....the list goes on.
.

i'm sure you're aware carl Froch knocked George Groves out in front of 80,000 people at Wembley Stadium.

out of interest can you recall a US boxing event of similar magnitude during your lifetime?

caldo2025 wrote: My point is that there's multiple levels of boxing in the world and the goal of most international boxers is what? To come across the pond and fight at Caesars Palace, MGM or Madison Square Garden. Fighting in the USA is varsity and fighting in Britain or Ireland is Junior Varsity. A truly successful British fighter has to make it here in the states to get world class recognition. Look at Roman Gonzales. Look at Loma. Look at Rigo. GGG...Kovalev.....the list goes on.

USA is where boxing sleeps and eats and the dollars Americans pay for boxing is more valuable then anywhere in the world. So to compare Boxing to the other 4 major sports in the USA is relative because boxing competes directly with those sports and the dollars spent on American's sports entertainment.

The fighters you mentioned are making a living boxing in the US because the countries they are from originally are not lucrative enough to warrant staying in them. South Americans will often go to the US, while other Russians and Eastern Europeans end up in the likes of Germany. Look at the Klitschkos. GGG only ended up in the US because he was playing second fiddle to Sturm with his German promoters.

You talk about the USA being where all the dollars are made, but how many US fighters of recent times, or in fact, how many fighters based in the US full stop have earned as much in their careers as people like Hamed, Calzaghe, Hatton, Froch and Haye. Froch and Haye never made money in the States and the others were making plenty of cash before they did anything in the States.

The UK and Germany will always do bigger gates than the US because the countries are a lot less vast, there's a higher concentration of population and people can travel countrywide a lot more easily.

Counter-puncher wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:

My point is that there's multiple levels of boxing in the world and the goal of most international boxers is what? To come across the pond and fight at Caesars Palace, MGM or Madison Square Garden. Fighting in the USA is varsity and fighting in Britain or Ireland is Junior Varsity. A truly successful British fighter has to make it here in the states to get world class recognition. Look at Roman Gonzales. Look at Loma. Look at Rigo. GGG...Kovalev.....the list goes on.
.

i'm sure you're aware carl Froch knocked George Groves out in front of 80,000 people at Wembley Stadium.

out of interest can you recall a US boxing event of similar magnitude during your lifetime?

Comparing US to Britain in anything is frivolous but even more so when it comes to Boxing. I think it's great that a bunch of you numb sculls jumped in buses and squeezed next to each other to watch a very good boxer beat a very mediocre boxer. You goons are so starving for relevance that this was actually like your Super Bowl.

Even a huge event like this doesn't get a British boxer paid. Froch made like $12m and Groves $4m for that mess, didn't they? That's like the biggest pay day in British history and Floyd doesn't even get out of bed for double that. Come on man, don't come with slow balls. Put some mustard on it and give me something tough to hit. Too easy with you Brits.

johnswan1 wrote:

caldo2025 wrote: My point is that there's multiple levels of boxing in the world and the goal of most international boxers is what? To come across the pond and fight at Caesars Palace, MGM or Madison Square Garden. Fighting in the USA is varsity and fighting in Britain or Ireland is Junior Varsity. A truly successful British fighter has to make it here in the states to get world class recognition. Look at Roman Gonzales. Look at Loma. Look at Rigo. GGG...Kovalev.....the list goes on.

USA is where boxing sleeps and eats and the dollars Americans pay for boxing is more valuable then anywhere in the world. So to compare Boxing to the other 4 major sports in the USA is relative because boxing competes directly with those sports and the dollars spent on American's sports entertainment.

The fighters you mentioned are making a living boxing in the US because the countries they are from originally are not lucrative enough to warrant staying in them. South Americans will often go to the US, while other Russians and Eastern Europeans end up in the likes of Germany. Look at the Klitschkos. GGG only ended up in the US because he was playing second fiddle to Sturm with his German promoters.

You talk about the USA being where all the dollars are made, but how many US fighters of recent times, or in fact, how many fighters based in the US full stop have earned as much in their careers as people like Hamed, Calzaghe, Hatton, Froch and Haye. Froch and Haye never made money in the States and the others were making plenty of cash before they did anything in the States.

The UK and Germany will always do bigger gates than the US because the countries are a lot less vast, there's a higher concentration of population and people can travel countrywide a lot more easily.

It's funny how you name the 5 best British fighters and maybe 3 of them will be inducted into the Boxing Hall of Fame. All you need to do is look at anyone's top 100 boxer lists of all time and you will see how weak your argument is. The list is mostly Americans and that's should tell you all you need to know. Finding a Brit on that list is like "where's Waldo"? You have to search and strain your eyes. Just like those old pictures they used to put up in the mall where you had to stare at it for 20 minutes to see the hidden design inside the picture.

Every few weeks, I have to hear some lousy Brit yapping. Just like the British Boxers...all yap, no game. Brook, Khan, Fury...these are your hero's. Guys that talk...that's it. Maybe some American will come save you and help you fight this argument....America's been bailing you jokes out of trouble for a century now. So what's one more.

caldo2025 wrote:

Heretic wrote:I was little bit wondering what is going through the mind that wrote the first post. At the time when the OP brought up the 4 big sports it all come clear to me.

"Association football, more commonly known as football or soccer, is a sport played between two teams of eleven players with a spherical ball. It is played by 250 million players in over 150 countries, making it the world's most popular sport." (Wikipedia, 2015)

There is actually almost as many people playing football as there is people that thinks playing football has something to do with running around the field carrying the ball in hand.

So boxing might have regressed in the states. It is also doing pretty well in other places.

"But but but there has never been good boxer that was not Murican."

If you are not interested in boxers from other countries then it is your problem. You should then be complaining about the state of boxing in the states. There are currently lot of great boxers around the world and great matches do happen.

I have learned that maybe the easiest way to gauge persons intellect is to see how well they can think about situations objectively from multiple viewpoints. The ones that are always stuck on their own viewpoint are usually the ones with lowest IQ :geek2:

First off, i've never claimed to be intelligent and if you've read a few more posts from me, you'd witness how far from intelligent i really am.

My point is that there's multiple levels of boxing in the world and the goal of most international boxers is what? To come across the pond and fight at Caesars Palace, MGM or Madison Square Garden. Fighting in the USA is varsity and fighting in Britain or Ireland is Junior Varsity. A truly successful British fighter has to make it here in the states to get world class recognition. Look at Roman Gonzales. Look at Loma. Look at Rigo. GGG...Kovalev.....the list goes on.

USA is where boxing sleeps and eats and the dollars Americans pay for boxing is more valuable then anywhere in the world. So to compare Boxing to the other 4 major sports in the USA is relative because boxing competes directly with those sports and the dollars spent on American's sports entertainment.

If some dope in Liverpool decides to spend his money on a Cricket Match instead of a Boxing PPV event, no one cares. But if someone decides to watch the World Series instead of buying a PPV boxing event, they are directly related.

It's not me being American, it's me having a brain and eyes.

Good rebuttal. Better than I expected :geek2:

It is true that USA is where the world level of boxing most often happen. It just frustrates me a lot when people ignore good boxers and matches just because of nationality.

Boxing has sadly been on decline in states for quite some time. I think that is mostly because other sports have taken its place. Nowadays it is better to be playing team sports than to box. In many other countries boxing is still way up for people that have no other ways to do so.

I just hope that the promoters will wake up someday soon and realize that only way to make people care for boxing is to stop protecting boxers and let the best fight the best

Go to Boxrec's rankings. Checking division by division how many of the top 5 in each weight class is from the USA? Not very many, eh? Over 350 million people and so few world-class contenders. In fact, if you remove all the latinos (you'd like that) there's be almost no Americans competing in a sport they once dominated. Based on news reports Americans seem to prefer fighting with guns than with gloves. DD

Heretic wrote: Good rebuttal. Better than I expected :geek2:

It is true that USA is where the world level of boxing most often happen. It just frustrates me a lot when people ignore good boxers and matches just because of nationality.

Boxing has sadly been on decline in states for quite some time. I think that is mostly because other sports have taken its place. Nowadays it is better to be playing team sports than to box. In many other countries boxing is still way up for people that have no other ways to do so.

I just hope that the promoters will wake up someday soon and realize that only way to make people care for boxing is to stop protecting boxers and let the best fight the best

Well, Haymon has known all along that he was going to lose money for investors in the first year of the PBC. If i'm in his place then i'm also not going to risk my best prospects in that first year. Why not risk them in the second or third years where you are expected to make money and profits are slated to be at it's peaks if things go according to plan?

But, I don't know. I keep making excuses for Haymon but what the hell do I know? Maybe this is how he plans to run his stable of boxers forever? If so then i'm out for good. The only thing that i do know is that i'm done watching any of he and Arum's events until I see something appetizing.

As for the America versus the world arguments from last week, i'm done man. I like to get a rise out of those silly little Brits that like to flick my ears but they know it's just in fun. After what happened in Paris, we need a little solidarity up in this joint. I have a feeling we'll all be needing help from each others before it's all over with these filthy terrorists. So i come in peace man.