BoxRec

Stevieb8006 wrote:I think we need to distinguish the difference between a professional journeyman and an import with a losing record simply brought over to be knocked down. A "journeyman" knows a craft. They know how to spoil, go for a walk, disappear, rough up... they know just how far to push a young prospect. A good journeyman wouldn't let a prospect have it all his own way. I agree in a way with the person who said today's journeymen aren't good enough, I'd argue they are a dieing breed that are being replaced with "Bodies".

I've always believed that a genuine journeyman is a fighter, that given time to prepare and the right investment, would be a threat.

Stevieb8006 wrote:I think we need to distinguish the difference between a professional journeyman and an import with a losing record simply brought over to be knocked down. A "journeyman" knows a craft. They know how to spoil, go for a walk, disappear, rough up... they know just how far to push a young prospect. A good journeyman wouldn't let a prospect have it all his own way. I agree in a way with the person who said today's journeymen aren't good enough, I'd argue they are a dieing breed that are being replaced with "Bodies".

I've always believed that a genuine journeyman is a fighter, that given time to prepare and the right investment, would be a threat.

Wales wrote:champions still flourish in the UFC where there are no journeymen.

johnnygreaves wrote:

Stevieb8006 wrote:I think we need to distinguish the difference between a professional journeyman and an import with a losing record simply brought over to be knocked down. A "journeyman" knows a craft. They know how to spoil, go for a walk, disappear, rough up... they know just how far to push a young prospect. A good journeyman wouldn't let a prospect have it all his own way. I agree in a way with the person who said today's journeymen aren't good enough, I'd argue they are a dieing breed that are being replaced with "Bodies".

I've always believed that a genuine journeyman is a fighter, that given time to prepare and the right investment, would be a threat.

x2

Junker wrote:Thanks for the nice comments about the book.

IMO the comparisons with other sports miss the point. Footballers / Rugby players / Golfers etc don't have to sell tickets to their friends and family to get a game. This is the fundamental problem. No other sport that I know of is run like this.
You can moan about journeymen not trying until the cows come home, but within the present system the deck will always be stacked to ensure the home corner boys keep winning. There's a bit about all that in the last chapter.

leejonesjnr wrote:

Wales wrote:champions still flourish in the UFC where there are no journeymen.

Tank Abbott?

80/20 wrote:There is a certain British journeyman (still active) who I hate to watch I understand the need not to get stopped or cut but it's sooo negative it's unreal ....at least try a little bit!


??????? A Clue ???????????

dookus wrote:

Junker wrote:Thanks for the nice comments about the book.

IMO the comparisons with other sports miss the point. Footballers / Rugby players / Golfers etc don't have to sell tickets to their friends and family to get a game. This is the fundamental problem. No other sport that I know of is run like this.
You can moan about journeymen not trying until the cows come home, but within the present system the deck will always be stacked to ensure the home corner boys keep winning. There's a bit about all that in the last chapter.

Hey there - thanks for writing it. A good read and I'm glad I bought it.

What are your thoughts on my original question? How if at all could the game be changed at the grassroots level to stop very able boxers being incentivised to lose deliberately on a weekly basis?

reggaereggae wrote:I thought the book was an excellent read, finished it in 2 days. Now I know the author can't interview every journeyman but I would've liked to hear from Journeyman legend Peter Buckley. Also Howard Clarke, especially, who beat Prospect Jason Papillion in an upset when he had 10 losses and then went on to box Fernando Vargas, got stopped, and then preceded to lose his next 50 or more in a row.....

What a story that must be. Maybe we can have a Journeymen 2 DD ?

The other question I have is that does any other country work with this kind of system?

Junker wrote:

reggaereggae wrote:I thought the book was an excellent read, finished it in 2 days. Now I know the author can't interview every journeyman but I would've liked to hear from Journeyman legend Peter Buckley. Also Howard Clarke, especially, who beat Prospect Jason Papillion in an upset when he had 10 losses and then went on to box Fernando Vargas, got stopped, and then preceded to lose his next 50 or more in a row.....

What a story that must be. Maybe we can have a Journeymen 2 DD ?

The other question I have is that does any other country work with this kind of system?

thanks mate. To begin with I drew up a list with about 20-30 names on it and Peter Buckley was one of the first ones I approached. He didn't want to do the book though as he already had some media interest which he wanted to commit to. Howard Clarke was also a possibility, there are loads of names you could mention. Quite a few people have said Tony Booth, who was an absolute legend, although not an out-and-out journeyman IMO and has already done his own book anyway.
I'm happy with the guys I got and the way the book turned out. I wouldn't do a Journeymen 2, though. Need to move on - I can't keep writing about the same things!

Wales wrote:

leejonesjnr wrote:

Wales wrote:champions still flourish in the UFC where there are no journeymen.

Tank Abbott?

His record in ufc is about 50-50, and he comes to win, no?

Peter Buckley? 10-250, comes to lose but not get KOd

leejonesjnr wrote:
Hi record in UFC is less than 50-50 and lower still when including all MMA.
Would you consider a boxer with 8 losses and 5 wins a journeyman or a contender?
I can't speak for every fight he has ever had as I don't really enjoy or follow MMA much these days but when he was the opponent against Gary Turner in London he certainly came just for the wages.

Boxing Prospect wrote:

leejonesjnr wrote:
Hi record in UFC is less than 50-50 and lower still when including all MMA.
Would you consider a boxer with 8 losses and 5 wins a journeyman or a contender?
I can't speak for every fight he has ever had as I don't really enjoy or follow MMA much these days but when he was the opponent against Gary Turner in London he certainly came just for the wages.

Is it the record that makes a journeyman?
Looking at, say, Rey Megrino or Rey Loreto you'd think both were "journeymen" yet both are world ranked fighters who genuinely have a crack at winning a title somewhere down the line. On the British front was Chris Edwards a journeyman-despite being a 3 time British champion?

Junker wrote:

reggaereggae wrote:I thought the book was an excellent read, finished it in 2 days. Now I know the author can't interview every journeyman but I would've liked to hear from Journeyman legend Peter Buckley. Also Howard Clarke, especially, who beat Prospect Jason Papillion in an upset when he had 10 losses and then went on to box Fernando Vargas, got stopped, and then preceded to lose his next 50 or more in a row.....

What a story that must be. Maybe we can have a Journeymen 2 DD ?

The other question I have is that does any other country work with this kind of system?

thanks mate. To begin with I drew up a list with about 20-30 names on it and Peter Buckley was one of the first ones I approached. He didn't want to do the book though as he already had some media interest which he wanted to commit to. Howard Clarke was also a possibility, there are loads of names you could mention. Quite a few people have said Tony Booth, who was an absolute legend, although not an out-and-out journeyman IMO and has already done his own book anyway.
I'm happy with the guys I got and the way the book turned out. I wouldn't do a Journeymen 2, though. Need to move on - I can't keep writing about the same things!

mimmy123 wrote:

josco wrote:We do not have, for example, journeyman jockeys, football players, rugby players, snooker players, cricketers, golfers etc etc etc etc etc. Just journeyman boxers. Says it all.

Im not sure I agree with this. I would say Billy Sharp for example in terms of football is what I would class as a journeyman football playeer, but the name journeyman only really has a meaning in boxing as journeymen travel anywhere and everywhere. Saying it in that sense does put a football player like Billy Sharp in that league. I dont know anything about Rugby or Snooker so cant comment but in horse racing there will be 'fringe' jockies or jockies who cannot get a perminant stable and have to ride for whoever they can and just turn up at race courses hoping that a jockey is injured so he can get a replacement ride. Again in Golf there are many pro events and the guys who are now in their 30's 40's play in pro events such a the Euro Pro Tour and will almost get no where in terms of top PGA events, so travel all over the UK to try to get a slice of a £25k event with the winner making only £10k. I think 'journeymen' exsist in every sport in some form.

reggaereggae wrote:I thought the book was an excellent read, finished it in 2 days. Now I know the author can't interview every journeyman but I would've liked to hear from Journeyman legend Peter Buckley. Also Howard Clarke, especially, who beat Prospect Jason Papillion in an upset when he had 10 losses and then went on to box Fernando Vargas, got stopped, and then preceded to lose his next 50 or more in a row.....

What a story that must be. Maybe we can have a Journeymen 2 DD ?

The other question I have is that does any other country work with this kind of system?

mickey1975 wrote:

reggaereggae wrote:I thought the book was an excellent read, finished it in 2 days. Now I know the author can't interview every journeyman but I would've liked to hear from Journeyman legend Peter Buckley. Also Howard Clarke, especially, who beat Prospect Jason Papillion in an upset when he had 10 losses and then went on to box Fernando Vargas, got stopped, and then preceded to lose his next 50 or more in a row.....

What a story that must be. Maybe we can have a Journeymen 2 DD ?

The other question I have is that does any other country work with this kind of system?

I think Sweet Fighting Man 1 covers them. Tony Booth is the best sort of journeymen out there. He beat two of my friends, one "because I'm not losing to a York lad in Hull" and the other "because I felt like it". He wasn't expected to win either. The guys is mental.