BoxRec

Ricky_ wrote:
Make Pacquiao vs Khan. Let's see if Pac has enough left to knock that sucker tfo. If Khan wins it would set up some good fights at WW post-pac.

Why would Pacqiuao or more importantly Arum care if it sets up important fights post Pacquiao?
The main reason this fight would never take place is Khan is not an Arum fighter and it would make no sense in the long term.
Crawford will be Arum's cash cow if he could beat Pac.It makes the most sense from a business stand point

tiny_acres wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:
Make Pacquiao vs Khan. Let's see if Pac has enough left to knock that sucker tfo. If Khan wins it would set up some good fights at WW post-pac.

Why would Pacqiuao or more importantly Arum care if it sets up important fights post Pacquiao?
The main reason this fight would never take place is Khan is not an Arum fighter and it would make no sense in the long term.
Crawford will be Arum's cash cow if he could beat Pac.It makes the most sense from a business stand point

Crawford is not ready for Pac yet and Arum knows it.

At least we know Timmy will finish more or less intact...and maybe better than that.

zorndeslammes wrote:

caldo2025 wrote: Pretty unfair assessment of Bradley and insulting to most true boxing fans. Timothy Bradley is the only Welterweight willing to fight the best in the division.

They all are if the promoter makes the fights. Lemme guess; Floyd wouldn't be willing to do that, except that he shut out the best guys on the list, right?

Look at that list again and tell me how awful Timothy Bradley is and how bad his ticket sales are.

It isn't a bad list. I don't think he's a bad fighter. However, saying he "defeated" Manny Pacquiao is frankly ridiculous and exactly why we're even in this discussion of him supposedly deserving a third bout. Manny beat him comprehensively twice. Tim, in winning efforts, also finished a pair of fights with fringe guys out on his feet in the last three years. He's obviously not an elite level talent. He's a very good talent, and a very gutsy talent, but he's not elite, and he's actually a guy who's fighting style suggests he won't be of consequence for terribly long. And yes, his ticket sales suck. Unless he's opposite Marquez or Pacquiao, he can't draw. He's the B-side to everyone.

And you have the balls to say he doesn't deserve a third fight with Manny but Crawford does?

Crawford is a prospect who needs a meaningful win. Bradley is a guy for whom nothing really changes win/lose/draw. He's been in with these big names already and he's not been made any more significant of a draw than he was before.

So you think Crawford will be helping his career by beating up a boxing legend in his last fight? Do you understand how awful that would end up being for this kids career? Look what happened to Leon Spinks when he beat up Ali, the world hated him. Heck, look at what Bradley went though for beating Manny. The guy got death threats left and right.

Terrance Crawfords star is bright and it's on it's way to being something on the elite level. The WORST possible fight you could make for this kid is with Manny in his farewell fight late in his 30s. I don't think that you really know what you're talking about from jump street on this issue. A fight with Manny puts Crawford in an absolute No Win scenario.

To say that TB's hit list "isn't a bad list" also compounds the fracture to your boxing opinion. You can't find a boxer today with a tougher road than Bradley's. Say what you want but after rewatching the Manny/Bradley first fight it was a lot closer than I thought watching it live. Manny coasted the last 5 rounds and it cost him. Just like it cost Delahoya with Trinidad. Manny's fault completely for letting up like he did and Freddie Roach has said the same thing. That's why they didn't coast in the second fight and the fight was still rather close. Tim Bradley employed a horrible strategy of swinging for the fences in that fight when he was boxing beautifully through the first 6 rounds of that second fight.

You're way off base and history will eventually prove me correct. I don't need to argue the case anymore as you don't really make any points that make me scratch my head and consider myself wrong. Those conversations are the ones I'm looking for on this site but this one isn't even close.

tiny_acres wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:
Make Pacquiao vs Khan. Let's see if Pac has enough left to knock that sucker tfo. If Khan wins it would set up some good fights at WW post-pac.

Why would Pacqiuao or more importantly Arum care if it sets up important fights post Pacquiao?
The main reason this fight would never take place is Khan is not an Arum fighter and it would make no sense in the long term.
Crawford will be Arum's cash cow if he could beat Pac.It makes the most sense from a business stand point

How about

1. It sells way more than Pac vs any other TR fighter and
2. Is a better, more entertaining fight.

Actually, Timmy slugged it out the first 6 rounds of the second fight.

Amazingly, I had it dead even on my scorecard and actually saw Tim getting the better of it.

2 of the 3 judges had it the same as I did.

But the last 6 he gassed out and Pac took over.

koolkc107 wrote:Actually, Timmy slugged it out the first 6 rounds of the second fight.

Amazingly, I had it dead even on my scorecard and actually saw Tim getting the better of it.

2 of the 3 judges had it the same as I did.

But the last 6 he gassed out and Pac took over.

As a Pacman Fan, I agree. I hated how that fight was progressing. I don't know if it was Joel Diaz or Timothy Bradley that came up with the go for the knockout gameplan midway through the fight. Bradley had one knockout in 7 years and it was against a 40 year old Casamayor so no idea how they spent training camp planning that strategy. Bradley did complain about an injury in the fight so maybe that was the reason for the odd strategy.

I'm not one of those that believe that Atlas is doing any miracle work with Bradley, he's just a different voice in the corner and a more positive motivator in fight. Dias did nothing but chastise Bradley in those fights. Bradley survives a sledgehammer from Vargas to win the fight and all you could hear was Dias bitching at him.

Bradley vs. Floyd would be a great option for both guys i think. Why not let the winner of Pac/TB be #50. I love it.

caldo2025 wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:Actually, Timmy slugged it out the first 6 rounds of the second fight.

Amazingly, I had it dead even on my scorecard and actually saw Tim getting the better of it.

2 of the 3 judges had it the same as I did.

But the last 6 he gassed out and Pac took over.

As a Pacman Fan, I agree. I hated how that fight was progressing. I don't know if it was Joel Diaz or Timothy Bradley that came up with the go for the knockout gameplan midway through the fight. Bradley had one knockout in 7 years and it was against a 40 year old Casamayor so no idea how they spent training camp planning that strategy. Bradley did complain about an injury in the fight so maybe that was the reason for the odd strategy.

I'm not one of those that believe that Atlas is doing any miracle work with Bradley, he's just a different voice in the corner and a more positive motivator in fight. Dias did nothing but chastise Bradley in those fights. Bradley survives a sledgehammer from Vargas to win the fight and all you could hear was Dias bitching at him.

Bradley vs. Floyd would be a great option for both guys i think. Why not let the winner of Pac/TB be #50. I love it.

I don't think Floyd will be back.

And if he does come back, I don't think it will be Tim or Manny he does it against.

Won't be Manny because of the bogus shoulder.

Won't be Tim because there is no money in it.

It will be another go 'round with Cotto or it will be a young turk that can be hyped
like Swift, Thurman, or Porter...or even Broner who might be the most lucrative of all
if he can be seen as credible as far as a chance to win. Folks would be so confused about
who they hate more that it would do 2 million buys easy.

As far as Bradley v Pac and Atlas's role, I think Teddy is an asset.

If not as a teacher (and it did look like Tim was doing a few things a little different to me),
then certainly as a tactician. Teddy will come up with a decent plan for Tim, probably better
than anything he got from Diaz.

koolkc107 wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:Actually, Timmy slugged it out the first 6 rounds of the second fight.

Amazingly, I had it dead even on my scorecard and actually saw Tim getting the better of it.

2 of the 3 judges had it the same as I did.

But the last 6 he gassed out and Pac took over.

As a Pacman Fan, I agree. I hated how that fight was progressing. I don't know if it was Joel Diaz or Timothy Bradley that came up with the go for the knockout gameplan midway through the fight. Bradley had one knockout in 7 years and it was against a 40 year old Casamayor so no idea how they spent training camp planning that strategy. Bradley did complain about an injury in the fight so maybe that was the reason for the odd strategy.

I'm not one of those that believe that Atlas is doing any miracle work with Bradley, he's just a different voice in the corner and a more positive motivator in fight. Dias did nothing but chastise Bradley in those fights. Bradley survives a sledgehammer from Vargas to win the fight and all you could hear was Dias bitching at him.

Bradley vs. Floyd would be a great option for both guys i think. Why not let the winner of Pac/TB be #50. I love it.

I don't think Floyd will be back.

And if he does come back, I don't think it will be Tim or Manny he does it against.

Won't be Manny because of the bogus shoulder.

Won't be Tim because there is no money in it.

It will be another go 'round with Cotto or it will be a young turk that can be hyped
like Swift, Thurman, or Porter...or even Broner who might be the most lucrative of all
if he can be seen as credible as far as a chance to win. Folks would be so confused about
who they hate more that it would do 2 million buys easy.

As far as Bradley v Pac and Atlas's role, I think Teddy is an asset.

If not as a teacher (and it did look like Tim was doing a few things a little different to me),
then certainly as a tactician. Teddy will come up with a decent plan for Tim, probably better
than anything he got from Diaz.

It feels like Floyd's been retired for years. He's been removed from P4P ranking in most places so I bet even he is surprised at how quickly people forget when you're gone. Floyd's alway had a bloated self image but the lack of relevancy so soon has got to be surprising. That's why I think that we will hear him hinting about a fight sooner than later.

I think that #50 was the real goal and he's posturing right now to make the most possible money out of his last fight. With no ties to Showtime, HBO or anyone but his own company, #50 could be super profitable with the right dance partner.

Honestly, what's the point of coming back unless Floyd does the unthinkable and takes on Crawford or GGG. I don't even think that that Broner possibility would be worth it. Brook, Thurman, Khan...maybe Khan might be worth it. But, i'd really like it to be Crawford or GGG because that's the only way his PPV numbers would even sniff being worth it to him.

caldo2025 wrote:
It feels like Floyd's been retired for years. He's been removed from P4P ranking in most places so I bet even he is surprised at how quickly people forget when you're gone. Floyd's alway had a bloated self image but the lack of relevancy so soon has got to be surprising. That's why I think that we will hear him hinting about a fight sooner than later.

I think that #50 was the real goal and he's posturing right now to make the most possible money out of his last fight. With no ties to Showtime, HBO or anyone but his own company, #50 could be super profitable with the right dance partner.

Honestly, what's the point of coming back unless Floyd does the unthinkable and takes on Crawford or GGG. I don't even think that that Broner possibility would be worth it. Brook, Thurman, Khan...maybe Khan might be worth it. But, i'd really like it to be Crawford or GGG because that's the only way his PPV numbers would even sniff being worth it to him.

Neither Crawford or lil g are as big a payday as other guys out there and both have a high risk vs reward.

Throw in the contractual barriers (Floyd has a bad history with Arum and practically none with Loeffler)
and a fight becomes quite difficult to make.

Cotto and Canelo remain the biggest and most realistic fights if he comes back.

And that is why I don't think he will.

I think Floyd has been tired of boxing for some time now.

If you've been listening to him the last few years, it has been work for him nothing more.

So, with a boatload of cash and no threat of ever not being able to do anything he wants why would he come back?

50 is a nice round number, but historically it doesn't mean much more than 49.

And 49-0 is already iconic. Now, everytime they mention Marciano they gotta mention Floyd.

Not bad company and it automatically says great.

caldo2025 wrote: So you think Crawford will be helping his career by beating up a boxing legend in his last fight? Do you understand how awful that would end up being for this kids career? Look what happened to Leon Spinks when he beat up Ali, the world hated him. Heck, look at what Bradley went though for beating Manny. The guy got death threats left and right.

A) Leon Spinks went on to rematch Ali then actually rattled off a decent run before getting stomped by Holmes. He, like a lot of people in the early 80s, made exceedingly poor personal health choices and that hurt him badly from being able to ever fully reach his physical potential. If Leon hadn't flamed out, we might have a very different view of him.

B) Bradley got death threats because the decision was garbage. He didn't beat Manny except on paper.

C) The natural lifespan for boxers is to come up beating the guys that are coming down from their career peak and then to lose on the way out and make new guys into stars. Crawford needs to fight a big star like Manny before there are no big stars like Manny. Otherwise, his career can stall out.

To say that TB's hit list "isn't a bad list" also compounds the fracture to your boxing opinion. You can't find a boxer today with a tougher road than Bradley's. Say what you want but after rewatching the Manny/Bradley first fight it was a lot closer than I thought watching it live. Manny coasted the last 5 rounds and it cost him. Just like it cost Delahoya with Trinidad. Manny's fault completely for letting up like he did and Freddie Roach has said the same thing. That's why they didn't coast in the second fight and the fight was still rather close. Tim Bradley employed a horrible strategy of swinging for the fences in that fight when he was boxing beautifully through the first 6 rounds of that second fight.

I have no personal ill will towards Tim Bradley. There is no animosity there. However, his record doesn't say to me, "this guy is an elite welterweight". His winning performances in recent years tend to be against fighters known more for competing at junior welterweight or even lightweight, and he's often had struggles in those fights. It would be easy to write off the end of the Vargas fight if, for instance, he hadn't faded late vs. Provodnikov and Pacquiao in the second fight. There's a pattern there.

You're way off base and history will eventually prove me correct.

I'm sure you'll rush to apologize if it turns out to be another Pacquiao 116-112x3 fight and he rides off into the sunset ostensibly defeating the same guy 3 times.

koolkc107 wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:
It feels like Floyd's been retired for years. He's been removed from P4P ranking in most places so I bet even he is surprised at how quickly people forget when you're gone. Floyd's alway had a bloated self image but the lack of relevancy so soon has got to be surprising. That's why I think that we will hear him hinting about a fight sooner than later.

I think that #50 was the real goal and he's posturing right now to make the most possible money out of his last fight. With no ties to Showtime, HBO or anyone but his own company, #50 could be super profitable with the right dance partner.

Honestly, what's the point of coming back unless Floyd does the unthinkable and takes on Crawford or GGG. I don't even think that that Broner possibility would be worth it. Brook, Thurman, Khan...maybe Khan might be worth it. But, i'd really like it to be Crawford or GGG because that's the only way his PPV numbers would even sniff being worth it to him.

Neither Crawford or lil g are as big a payday as other guys out there and both have a high risk vs reward.

Throw in the contractual barriers (Floyd has a bad history with Arum and practically none with Loeffler)
and a fight becomes quite difficult to make.

Cotto and Canelo remain the biggest and most realistic fights if he comes back.

And that is why I don't think he will.

I think Floyd has been tired of boxing for some time now.

If you've been listening to him the last few years, it has been work for him nothing more.

So, with a boatload of cash and no threat of ever not being able to do anything he wants why would he come back?

50 is a nice round number, but historically it doesn't mean much more than 49.

And 49-0 is already iconic. Now, everytime they mention Marciano they gotta mention Floyd.

Not bad company and it automatically says great.

I was very surprised to hear Floyd say those things about losing the love for Boxing. I only began noticing it in the Manny prefight buildup. I've never heard him say those things before then though so I'm hoping that he just needs a break to the fire burn a little brighter. I'd honestly be impressed and surprised if he really does stay retired because that never ever happens.

Good point with Canelo. No idea why I forgot about that possibility. That would probably be the biggest fight he could take, you're right. Plus to win the MW crown with #50, that's one heck of a way to go out.

Ok, I'm on board now. I vote for Floyd Canelo instead. See, I can listen and learn :)

caldo2025 wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:
It feels like Floyd's been retired for years. He's been removed from P4P ranking in most places so I bet even he is surprised at how quickly people forget when you're gone. Floyd's alway had a bloated self image but the lack of relevancy so soon has got to be surprising. That's why I think that we will hear him hinting about a fight sooner than later.

I think that #50 was the real goal and he's posturing right now to make the most possible money out of his last fight. With no ties to Showtime, HBO or anyone but his own company, #50 could be super profitable with the right dance partner.

Honestly, what's the point of coming back unless Floyd does the unthinkable and takes on Crawford or GGG. I don't even think that that Broner possibility would be worth it. Brook, Thurman, Khan...maybe Khan might be worth it. But, i'd really like it to be Crawford or GGG because that's the only way his PPV numbers would even sniff being worth it to him.

Neither Crawford or lil g are as big a payday as other guys out there and both have a high risk vs reward.

Throw in the contractual barriers (Floyd has a bad history with Arum and practically none with Loeffler)
and a fight becomes quite difficult to make.

Cotto and Canelo remain the biggest and most realistic fights if he comes back.

And that is why I don't think he will.

I think Floyd has been tired of boxing for some time now.

If you've been listening to him the last few years, it has been work for him nothing more.

So, with a boatload of cash and no threat of ever not being able to do anything he wants why would he come back?

50 is a nice round number, but historically it doesn't mean much more than 49.

And 49-0 is already iconic. Now, everytime they mention Marciano they gotta mention Floyd.

Not bad company and it automatically says great.

I was very surprised to hear Floyd say those things about losing the love for Boxing. I only began noticing it in the Manny prefight buildup. I've never heard him say those things before then though so I'm hoping that he just needs a break to the fire burn a little brighter. I'd honestly be impressed and surprised if he really does stay retired because that never ever happens.

Good point with Canelo. No idea why I forgot about that possibility. That would probably be the biggest fight he could take, you're right. Plus to win the MW crown with #50, that's one heck of a way to go out.

Ok, I'm on board now. I vote for Floyd Canelo instead. See, I can listen and learn :)

If Cotto would have won it would have been even more tempting probably.

But, I think he stays gone.

He has nothing to prove and he seems to get off in doing what folks don't expect him to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6w0jakILepk

This is for some of you who do not want this fight to happen

I hate re-runs, especially when we already know which guy is better. Why not someone new? The fight won't sell very well if it happens.

Badhusker wrote:I hate re-runs, especially when we already know which guy is better. Why not someone new? The fight won't sell very well if it happens.

I think Pac wins a third time too, but I can't stop remembering how I felt halfway thru the last fight.

It looked very good for Tim thru 6.

And had he been able to sustain that pace and attack, who knows.

Is Pac v Bradley the fight I'd make? No.

But if they do make it, I will watch knowing it isn't the worse way to end a career.

Wish Floyd would have chosen a bit better...

koolkc107 wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:
Neither Crawford or lil g are as big a payday as other guys out there and both have a high risk vs reward.

Throw in the contractual barriers (Floyd has a bad history with Arum and practically none with Loeffler)
and a fight becomes quite difficult to make.

Cotto and Canelo remain the biggest and most realistic fights if he comes back.

And that is why I don't think he will.

I think Floyd has been tired of boxing for some time now.

If you've been listening to him the last few years, it has been work for him nothing more.

So, with a boatload of cash and no threat of ever not being able to do anything he wants why would he come back?

50 is a nice round number, but historically it doesn't mean much more than 49.

And 49-0 is already iconic. Now, everytime they mention Marciano they gotta mention Floyd.

Not bad company and it automatically says great.

I was very surprised to hear Floyd say those things about losing the love for Boxing. I only began noticing it in the Manny prefight buildup. I've never heard him say those things before then though so I'm hoping that he just needs a break to the fire burn a little brighter. I'd honestly be impressed and surprised if he really does stay retired because that never ever happens.

Good point with Canelo. No idea why I forgot about that possibility. That would probably be the biggest fight he could take, you're right. Plus to win the MW crown with #50, that's one heck of a way to go out.

Ok, I'm on board now. I vote for Floyd Canelo instead. See, I can listen and learn :)

If Cotto would have won it would have been even more tempting probably.

But, I think he stays gone.

He has nothing to prove and he seems to get off in doing what folks don't expect him to.

It's tough man. It must be ridiculously tough to walk away from his level of limelight. Let's face it, the guy is as vain as they get. He create 24/7 because craves attention and stardom. The Dancing With The Stars, hanging out with a teeny bopper pop star, front row seats at games to be on camera, the entourages. I bet this guys had a camera on him every week the last 5 or 6 years.

Let's be honest, we aren't talking about a guy who had a lot of other options other than boxing. According to former friends of his, he can't read or write. Sure he has more money than most but when something is lusted after but now over abundant, it's importance diminishes greatly. I think that there's zero percent that he doesn't come back for at least one more. Floyd has to be relevant and seen and unfortunately, the only tool he has to achieve that is boxing.

It's either that or he gets himself back into trouble somehow or worse. Guys like Floyd, you don't see interviewed ringside at 70yrs old.

Bradley said he prefers Cotto over a 3rd fight with Pacquiao.

http://www.BS.com/bradley-pref ... iii--99208

If I were Bradley, I'd prefer a Cotto fight too. I think that's certainly a winnable contest for him and gets him a career best scalp that he might have actually earned. Not bad for Cotto either.

Bradley - Cotto is a great fight, pleeeease get it made!!!

digzee wrote:Bradley - Cotto is a great fight, pleeeease get it made!!!

Be interesting to see what weight it would be made at.
But agreed a cracking fight. A true 50/50 depending on the weight.
Both like a war aswell.

Badhusker wrote:Bradley said he prefers Cotto over a 3rd fight with Pacquiao.

http://www.BS.com/bradley-pref ... iii--99208

I would be down for that.....infinitely better than Bradley-Pac III.

PredatorHayds wrote:

digzee wrote:Bradley - Cotto is a great fight, pleeeease get it made!!!

Be interesting to see what weight it would be made at.
But agreed a cracking fight. A true 50/50 depending on the weight.
Both like a war aswell.

I hate catch weights for title fights but this fight doesn't need a title so maybe Cotto can come down a little to 152.
Would just favour Cotto myself after he performed better then I expected against Canelo.

I didn't think he could box that disciplined at this stage of his career.
If anyone can drag him into a war and off a gameplan it's Bradley.

Badhusker wrote:Bradley said he prefers Cotto over a 3rd fight with Pacquiao.

http://www.BS.com/bradley-pref ... iii--99208

That's not quite what I got from that.

Actually, it reads like the writer of the article has more of a preference than Tim:

Bradley's promoter, Bob Arum of Top Rank, was interested in matching him against the winner of Cotto vs. Canelo, before the Pacquiao opportunity came up.

"Right now we are negotiating. But we do not know if we're going to take the [Pacquiao] fight or not," Bradley said to El Vocero. "I'm here to work on the TruTV card, with Felix Verdejo and Nonito Donaire. But of course I'm also here to discuss business here."

"I've faced Pacquiao twice and if I do it a third time it would be a fight of reckoning if anything else. It's the only way I could describe it. However, Miguel Cotto will be something new. I have never before faced a fighter who's that big and strong. Cotto has always faced the best. He's been in there with everyone. So to get a fight with a fighter like him, with so much class and shown such greatness, inside and outside the ring, it would be great. I've always said that greatness is measured by the amount of risk you take."

Call me cynical, but this sounds more like a guy posturing for a better purse out of the trilogy than anything else.
He is saying he has options for a payday, and he is willing to fight a bigger guy if the money is better.

That is what he "prefers".

It says they were gonna match him against Cotto "before the Pacquiao opportunity came up".

Which means the fight he prefers is taking a back seat to the one he doesn't?

IJS....

digzee wrote:

PredatorHayds wrote:

digzee wrote:Bradley - Cotto is a great fight, pleeeease get it made!!!

Be interesting to see what weight it would be made at.
But agreed a cracking fight. A true 50/50 depending on the weight.
Both like a war aswell.

I hate catch weights for title fights but this fight doesn't need a title so maybe Cotto can come down a little to 152.
Would just favour Cotto myself after he performed better then I expected against Canelo.

Bradley isn't a shitbag, he'd fight Cotto at jnr mw.