BoxRec

Well the big weight divisions won't work well in a lot of countries where the fighters are almost all small but then they have few or no heavyweights anyway. Maybe they could get some big fat guys to box which would be funny if nothing else. Most people here seem to think I'm wrong but it doesn't seem fair to me to have to fight a guy who is a head taller and 50 pounds heavier.

x2x wrote:HH -

It is not possible to go from 160 to 195 in one day. 195 was close to my boxing weight. To think that I could get down to 165 by dehydrating and then back up to 205 the next day is ludicrous. That being said, I don't like the way they are doing the weight and dehydrating thing and one guy showing up much bigger than the other. It is both unhealthy and unfair. They should do the weighing right before the fight and make it the responsibility of the fighter to know his correct weight before he shows up.

Regarding weight you are just repeating what you said before and not addressing my argument and if you want to play that game about a smaller man can beat a bigger man why should that only apply to heavyweights while the little fellers are catered to with teeny weeny little weight classes separated by three pounds? Don't the crooks who run boxing want to have more championship fights to peddle? So let's have a super heavyweight and a super super heavyweight div. or whatever you want to call it and they'll have two more!

They show it on AXSTV all the time with their "Inside MMA" programs of guys losing 20-30 pounds, and rehydrating overnight. Thank Jesus, alot of jurisidictions are banning IV rehydration methods in the sport, but I do not think it has yet applied to boxing. But never the less, one can lose ten-fifteen-twenty pounds and put it back on overnight. Its done quite a bit in the sport. Losing the weight, yes, takes quite some time. But regaining it back, does not take much time.

As for your argument about having "super heavyweight" divisions.... this is goes back to the day and age of Primo Carnera, when RING magazine wondered aloud if a "Drednaught" division should be created because people thought it was simply unfair that a giant man became heavyweight champion of the world. That logic went out the window when Max Baer absoloutely destroyed Carnera. At the end of the day, SKILLS overcomes SIZE. That has been proven time and again in this sport, even back in the bare knuckle era. Mindful matchmaking and smart sanctioning is what counts here.

Because if size really was that beneficial, then we would have seen far and away more giant champions than we have finely tuned athletes fighting close to their own natural weights.

The key thing to keep in mind is that the weight advantage diminishes with the weight increase. Therefore the steps should increase gradually with every higher weight class. Taking this into account, as well as traditional weights and bit rounding up I have 10 weight class system:

110 Min
115 +4.35 Fly
122 +5.74 Bantam
130 +6.15 Feather
140 +7.14 Light
152 +7.89 Welter
165 +7.88 Middle
180 +8.33 Belter
200 +10.00 Cruiser
>200 Heavy

Increase is in percentages.

HH -

That weight losing stuff is incredibly bizarre and has to be super unhealthy as well as unfair. Luckily being a heavy I was exempt from it.

Back in the days u allude to extremely bigfighters were very rare. Carnera was looked upon almost like a circus freak. Heavies often weighed in the 180's. Now the division is dominated by men who are around 6'6" and solid muscle. Yeah if I had my way there'd be a super heavy div and a dreadnaught div and u still haven't addressed my argument about why what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander namely all the little squirts.

Tarkus - You're on the right track - EXCEPT U STOPPED AT 200!

x2x wrote:Tarkus - You're on the right track - EXCEPT U STOPPED AT 200!

One could add 225, but I fear that would severely diminish already shallow HW division. I think anyone above 220 can overcome weight difference against the heavyweight of any size. As for 210-220 guys, well I am afraid they need to drain themselves down to 200 or build up some muscle.

x2x wrote:HH -

That weight losing stuff is incredibly bizarre and has to be super unhealthy as well as unfair. Luckily being a heavy I was exempt from it.

Back in the days u allude to extremely bigfighters were very rare. Carnera was looked upon almost like a circus freak. Heavies often weighed in the 180's. Now the division is dominated by men who are around 6'6" and solid muscle. Yeah if I had my way there'd be a super heavy div and a dreadnaught div and u still haven't addressed my argument about why what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander namely all the little squirts.

The problem with "all the litte squirts" is that they don't fight near their own natural weight anyways. Very few fight near the own weight. Mayweather and Pacquiao and Marquez and Martinez were some of the very few who did. By and large, in my opinion, you have a bunch of middleweights who simply dont have the punch resistance or abilities to compete at the weight, so they cut down to welterweight and the same goes for all the divisions. If you are within five pounds of your natural weight, in my view, you should compete there. Not lose two-three times more, and compete. Because what if you do compete against a guy who does fight within five pounds of his natural weight, and here you are some punk losing twenty? Its an unfair advantage.

But I think the heavyweight/Cruiserweight divisions are exceptions.... why?.... Because how much force do you really need to generate to knock out a 200+ man out anyways? Or even a 250 pound man? Cunningham was 210 pounds and floored Fury. The truth is, once you get so big, you don't need that much else in order to knock out a man. It all comes down to precision, timing, accuracy, skills. If you are a B level fighter fighting a B level big man, then yeah you are in trouble. But if you are an A level small guy fighting a B level big man, it evens itself out. Simple as that. Take Mayweather/Canelo for example.... Canelo was damn big for 154 pounds... but it didn't mean much at all because the truth is Howdy Doody was a B level contender taking on an A+ smaller fighter.

HH - you fix all the weight nonsense by simply weighing them before the fight. Problem solved.

HH and Tarkus - 200 isn't a magic number. It would be the same for me at 6 feet and 205 facing a guy who is a head taller than me and weighhs 25% more or 50% more as it would for a little feller. You can pick a hard hitter at any lower weight and tell me he can ko a bigger guy sure he could - say golovkin or kovalev and I don't know who's a hard hitter at even lower weight and sure he could ko a heavy and u can say that for all the weight classes some lightweight can ko some middle whatever. 200 isn't a magic number so Tarkus feel free to go ahead and add two more weights or at least one more to your list. If anyone gives you a hard time tell them that I said it's ok... ha ha!

x2x wrote: HH and Tarkus - 200 isn't a magic number. It would be the same for me at 6 feet and 205 facing a guy who is a head taller than me and weighhs 25% more or 50% more as it would for a little feller. You can pick a hard hitter at any lower weight and tell me he can ko a bigger guy sure he could - say golovkin or kovalev and I don't know who's a hard hitter at even lower weight and sure he could ko a heavy and u can say that for all the weight classes some lightweight can ko some middle whatever. 200 isn't a magic number so Tarkus feel free to go ahead and add two more weights or at least one more to your list. If anyone gives you a hard time tell them that I said it's ok... ha ha!

No, 200 is not a magic number, however the question remains, what should be the highest limit above which there is no sense for a further split. I feel 210 is the perfect limit for the highest weight class at this moment in time. However then the rest of the weight classes would need to be changed as well. I dont know, are you acquainted with Mauricio Sulaiman? If you promise to put it in practice I could perhaps arrange all new system, 10 divisions all within 110-210 pound range.

210lb for super cruiserweight could work, if you put cruiserweight back to 190lb. Even though I'm not for more divisions, I think that's fairer that the current 175lb to 200lb leap. The 190lb division could be pretty strong, seeing as some drainer light heavyweights would go for it, while most of the top 200lb cruiserweights today could make 190lb. Actually, it's the 210lb division that would be barren - I'm positive it would be the worst division in boxing. Just put cruiserweight back to 190lb and be done with it, there's enough historical evidence

Clearly size advantages diminish as you go up in weight and IMO once you go past 220lb, extra size is as much of a disadvantage as an advantage. There just aren't many good small heavyweights these days who know how to fight small and use their lack of size to their advantage. Keep in mind that the biggest heavyweight punchers ever were probably 6'0" and 210lb Earnie Shavers, 6'3 1/2" and 220lb George Foreman (big George actually weighed as light as 212lb in his early career) and 5'10" and 217lb Mike Tyson.

jezzamundo wrote:210lb for super cruiserweight could work, if you put cruiserweight back to 190lb. Even though I'm not for more divisions, I think that's fairer that the current 175lb to 200lb leap. The 190lb division could be pretty strong, seeing as some drainer light heavyweights would go for it, while most of the top 200lb cruiserweights today could make 190lb. Actually, it's the 210lb division that would be barren - I'm positive it would be the worst division in boxing. Just put cruiserweight back to 190lb and be done with it, there's enough historical evidence

Clearly size advantages diminish as you go up in weight and IMO once you go past 220lb, extra size is as much of a disadvantage as an advantage. There just aren't many good small heavyweights these days who know how to fight small and use their lack of size to their advantage. Keep in mind that the biggest heavyweight punchers ever were probably 6'0" and 210lb Earnie Shavers, 6'3 1/2" and 220lb George Foreman (big George actually weighed as light as 212lb in his early career) and 5'10" and 217lb Mike Tyson.

That is indeed stupid. But if we wanted to fix just that, it could be done by simply increasing LH to 180. Considering LH/SM gap is ridiculously small. This would fix both problems.

About small heavyweights I am of the opinion that heavyweights of today are larger then ever before. Modern training allows big men to be more athletic then in the past. I think small/short HWs like Tyson would find it very hard to be successful these days.

Tarkus wrote:

x2x wrote: HH and Tarkus - 200 isn't a magic number. It would be the same for me at 6 feet and 205 facing a guy who is a head taller than me and weighhs 25% more or 50% more as it would for a little feller. You can pick a hard hitter at any lower weight and tell me he can ko a bigger guy sure he could - say golovkin or kovalev and I don't know who's a hard hitter at even lower weight and sure he could ko a heavy and u can say that for all the weight classes some lightweight can ko some middle whatever. 200 isn't a magic number so Tarkus feel free to go ahead and add two more weights or at least one more to your list. If anyone gives you a hard time tell them that I said it's ok... ha ha!

No, 200 is not a magic number, however the question remains, what should be the highest limit above which there is no sense for a further split. I feel 210 is the perfect limit for the highest weight class at this moment in time. However then the rest of the weight classes would need to be changed as well. I dont know, are you acquainted with Mauricio Sulaiman? If you promise to put it in practice I could perhaps arrange all new system, 10 divisions all within 110-210 pound range.

We'll fix up your chart there and I'll see what I can do. Can't promise anything but I'll try to get it all changed over by next week. Here's what we'll do - get rid of that dopey "belter" thing - what's that all about? - and change it to light heavy and then we'll add on superheavyweight class I'm thinkin 230 whadya think or do you like 225 - oh you don't like either too bad. In the future we might add on a dreadnaught division too. I'm also working on consolidating all the phony alphabet things and getting the bosses thrown in prison. Should have all that taken care of by next month. After that I'm working on taking over the whole country and throwing all the stinking politicians in jail. Next year. After that I'm taking over the western hemisphere of the planet and fixing that. That will take about 2 years.

There is no need for a super heavyweight division - this madness needs to stop! Being the heavyweight champion of the world means something - heavyweight should always be the heaviest division in boxing. The level of talent at heavyweight in recent years - Klitschkos aside - has been dire, and splitting the division in two has got to be one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.

I don't care what the weight classes are you lot can make up what you see fit, or if pushed I'll do it.

But make sure the boxers fight at the weight they are participating in, I don't want to see a boxer weigh in as a Welterweight in a Welterweight contest boxing on the night as a Light Heavyweight.
I can stand the frivolous excuses made over the years, rehydration is the big one and it's such a load of old bollocks and open to all kinds of cheating, it's just wrong.

Fight at the weight.

It's like saying Fridays weigh in is at a maximum of 147 and both boxers weigh in at 147.

On Saturday one boxer fights at 160 and the other fights at 168 ... neither make weight or not remotely close to it and there is a big weight advantage from one boxer to the other.
It's mad.

HomicideHenry wrote:

x2x wrote:HH -

It is not possible to go from 160 to 195 in one day. 195 was close to my boxing weight. To think that I could get down to 165 by dehydrating and then back up to 205 the next day is ludicrous. That being said, I don't like the way they are doing the weight and dehydrating thing and one guy showing up much bigger than the other. It is both unhealthy and unfair. They should do the weighing right before the fight and make it the responsibility of the fighter to know his correct weight before he shows up.

Regarding weight you are just repeating what you said before and not addressing my argument and if you want to play that game about a smaller man can beat a bigger man why should that only apply to heavyweights while the little fellers are catered to with teeny weeny little weight classes separated by three pounds? Don't the crooks who run boxing want to have more championship fights to peddle? So let's have a super heavyweight and a super super heavyweight div. or whatever you want to call it and they'll have two more!

They show it on AXSTV all the time with their "Inside MMA" programs of guys losing 20-30 pounds, and rehydrating overnight. Thank Jesus, alot of jurisidictions are banning IV rehydration methods in the sport, but I do not think it has yet applied to boxing. But never the less, one can lose ten-fifteen-twenty pounds and put it back on overnight. Its done quite a bit in the sport. Losing the weight, yes, takes quite some time. But regaining it back, does not take much time.

As for your argument about having "super heavyweight" divisions.... this is goes back to the day and age of Primo Carnera, when RING magazine wondered aloud if a "Drednaught" division should be created because people thought it was simply unfair that a giant man became heavyweight champion of the world. That logic went out the window when Max Baer absoloutely destroyed Carnera. At the end of the day, SKILLS overcomes SIZE. That has been proven time and again in this sport, even back in the bare knuckle era. Mindful matchmaking and smart sanctioning is what counts here.

Because if size really was that beneficial, then we would have seen far and away more giant champions than we have finely tuned athletes fighting close to their own natural weights.

So true. I've watched matches up close where lower weight division fighters looked emaciated. They looked seriously starved and their punches couldn't break an egg because of their conditioning. Getting KOd or beat up over a long period can be seriously harmful.

Increasing cruiserweight to 205 may be ok but I wouldn't go any higher than that. Otherwise will end up in a situation where you have a HW champion like Joshua or Parker at 225 and a "Super" HW "champion" like Richard Carmack at 270 !