BoxRec

jamesmcdonnell wrote: Time will tell of course. I'm having to extrapolate based on what I've seen of him so far, but AJ looks to have much more solid foundations to improve on, than Tyson did at a similar stage of his development.

Yeah even now on pure punch technique Joshua is very solid and has a nice variety of punches for a heavyweight. I mean when was the last time Wladimir landed or even attempted an uppercut?

Joshua is also comfortable at close quarters/inside which is rare for a man of his size. It's his ability to close the gap quickly (he can be a bit plodding at times), head movement, feinting and combination varieties which need work.

black panther wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote: Time will tell of course. I'm having to extrapolate based on what I've seen of him so far, but AJ looks to have much more solid foundations to improve on, than Tyson did at a similar stage of his development.

Yeah even now on pure punch technique Joshua is very solid and has a nice variety of punches for a heavyweight. I mean when was the last time Wladimir landed or even attempted an uppercut?

Joshua is also comfortable at close quarters/inside which is rare for a man of his size. It's his ability to close the gap quickly (he can be a bit plodding at times), head movement, feinting and combination varieties which need work.

Yes control of distance is important, he allowed Whyte inside too readily, it's something which Wlad made his forte.

I think that Fury is the more naturally mobile of the two men, Joshua is a little bit 'on rails' but I think Joshua's footwork is solid. If he can dictate distance make the jab a far more regular offensive weapon, and learn to cut the ring off by stepping to the side (he's not bad as it is) then he's going to be hard to avoid. As you say, he actually seems to like fighting on the inside, and turns those uppercuts in a very tight arc, that's a great asset for a big man to have, as the leverage they generate with those long levers at close quarters makes the uppercut devastating. Bowe and to a lesser extent, Lewis, were both devastating inside punchers with the uppercut, Bowe could mix it in with the left hook very nicely, and threw beautiful combos inside, something few really big men can do well.

In 2 years time if AJ improves like we think he shuld he will knock Fury out inside 4 rounds.

I don't understand the criticism that AJ is getting for Saturday to be honest. He came through a test against a top 15 heavyweight and knocked him out.

Whyte isnt a mug.

Josh needs to use the jab more and as JamesMc says get better control of distance, if he makes those improvements he's going to be hard to beat.

Fury for me isnt the sort of in your face (anymore) fighter that would stand a good chance against Joshua. For me Fury is made for Joshua.

Haye knocks them both out.

Wrists wrote:In 2 years time if AJ improves like we think he shuld he will knock Fury out inside 4 rounds.

I don't understand the criticism that AJ is getting for Saturday to be honest. He came through a test against a top 15 heavyweight and knocked him out.

Whyte isnt a mug.

Josh needs to use the jab more and as JamesMc says get better control of distance, if he makes those improvements he's going to be hard to beat.

Fury for me isnt the sort of in your face (anymore) fighter that would stand a good chance against Joshua. For me Fury is made for Joshua.

Haye knocks them both out.

Lol. are you actually serious?

just asking.

It's always going to be interesting. Fury has been hurt and also knocked down by non punchers. If he can protect his chin, then he has a very good chance of winning. If Joshua can land the big shots cleanly, then Fury's in big trouble. Could go either way. Wlad barely threw a punch, mainly because of what Fury did in the fight, but I think Joshua would throw hell of a lot more punches than Klitschko.

Joshua got hit with some big shots on Saturday, didn't go down and recovered very well. I'm not sure how much power Fury carries at world level, but I don't think he's a concussive puncher.

In the time frame mentioned, I think it's Fury on points or AJ by stoppage.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

keirw wrote:To early for AJ right now, he needs a few more fights and a lot more rounds before going up to world level.

Maybe in a year's time he will be ready, but if they were to fight eachother next Fury would outbox him convincingly.[/quote

I did say 'when it happens.' I didn't say if they fight tomorrow.

I think most people vote assuming you mean if they were to fight now, before they read you are talking about "when it happens".

In 2 years time Joshua will have lifted so many weights he will just be a huge ball of muscle. Unable to move his limbs because they will be so huge.

Fury will have gorged himself on McDonalds and have fallen into a diabetic coma. People like me will come on here and continue to claim "He's still lineal."

Joshua k.o on raw power and aggression,i cant see fury knocking joshua out and eventually joshua will get him BOOOM

Ezzard wrote:In 2 years time Joshua will have lifted so many weights he will just be a huge ball of muscle. Unable to move his limbs because they will be so huge.

Fury will have gorged himself on McDonalds and have fallen into a diabetic coma. People like me will come on here and continue to claim "He's still lineal."

thechump wrote:Joshua k.o on raw power and aggression,i cant see fury knocking joshua out and eventually joshua will get him BOOOM

Vlad caught him a couple of times and he was never hurt, doesn't AJ hit as hard as Vlad?

Wrists wrote:In 2 years time if AJ improves like we think he shuld he will knock Fury out inside 4 rounds.

I don't understand the criticism that AJ is getting for Saturday to be honest. He came through a test against a top 15 heavyweight and knocked him out.

Whyte isnt a mug.

Josh needs to use the jab more and as JamesMc says get better control of distance, if he makes those improvements he's going to be hard to beat.

Fury for me isnt the sort of in your face (anymore) fighter that would stand a good chance against Joshua. For me Fury is made for Joshua.

Haye knocks them both out.

a top 15 heavyweight ? of where england there's no way whyte is top 15 in the world

johnswan1 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

keirw wrote:To early for AJ right now, he needs a few more fights and a lot more rounds before going up to world level.

Maybe in a year's time he will be ready, but if they were to fight eachother next Fury would outbox him convincingly.[/quote

I did say 'when it happens.' I didn't say if they fight tomorrow.

I think most people vote assuming you mean if they were to fight now, before they read you are talking about "when it happens".

Unless something drastic happens, I'll say Fury in 2yrs too, I think he's totally wrong for AJ.

Can only base it on here and now. Fury on points or by late stoppage.

Joshua can improve significantly, but whats to say he will? Get him a top trainer and out sparring with people who will give him all kinds of grief, throw in fights against competitive opponents and he will improve. I don't see that happening any time soon though. I think it will take a loss for him to look to really change things.

If he does and irons out his flaws I think he irons out Fury too. Big if though.

Regarding Whyte and how high he is regarded, well, again, we still dont know! He could well be top 15 in time. He looks better than Chisora at the same stage imo and he managed to reach that level. He also might get knocked out in his very next fight! I am intrigued to see where he goes next, just as much as I am with Joshua to be honest.

Nightmare Roy wrote:

thechump wrote:Joshua k.o on raw power and aggression,i cant see fury knocking joshua out and eventually joshua will get him BOOOM

Vlad caught him a couple of times and he was never hurt, doesn't AJ hit as hard as Vlad?

I would say he probably hits harder but he doesnt just throw one punch he throws punches in bunches

keithmoonhangover wrote:It's always going to be interesting. Fury has been hurt and also knocked down by non punchers. If he can protect his chin, then he has a very good chance of winning. If Joshua can land the big shots cleanly, then Fury's in big trouble. Could go either way. Wlad barely threw a punch, mainly because of what Fury did in the fight, but I think Joshua would throw hell of a lot more punches than Klitschko.

Joshua got hit with some big shots on Saturday, didn't go down and recovered very well. I'm not sure how much power Fury carries at world level, but I don't think he's a concussive puncher.

In the time frame mentioned, I think it's Fury on points or AJ by stoppage.

Klitschko's spent most of his career fencing people out, and on the odd occasions when he has chased a finish, his opponents have been relatively immobile. And so he's never learnt to roll; never learnt to close distance evasively. He was chasing Fury in straight lines - and this is my main memory of the fight - tilting his head away when he threw the jab. To see a nine-year champ making one of the earliest schoolboy errors was crazy. If you're getting outjabbed by the longer-armed man on the counter, you're just not moving well enough. I actually think Mike Tyson would've fared better with his 71" reach.

Joshua also moves on rails, but he has Klitschko's prime athleticism, and he's a much fiercer prospect. I don't think that Fury has the tools to fend him off in a round-scoring way, but he should win a decision if he makes it to the middle rounds in good shape. But I'd give Joshua a great chance of clipping Fury in the first three, and I don't think there'd be any way back for Fury from that. Fury does have a good left to the body, but what's he gonna do if Joshua's able to get up in his grill with uppercuts? If he's able to time Fury to land his own jab on the counter and then go to town?

Joshua has plenty of flaws, but I'm not sure that many can exploit them. He's a bit like a Pele Reid or a Herbie Hide - or indeed, a Frank Bruno - but in the 2010s instead of the '90s. Destructive power, albeit slightly overrated at present, is probably enough to take him to the top now. Unless Haye's still 90% on his return, or Parker continues to improve rapidly. I rate Parker, and I'd like to see him win a title, but he needs a bit more power (he's working on it) and more flow. Up until now, everything he does looks too premeditated, as if he's thinking about every move in advance rather than just letting his feet go. Watching a Ray Leonard of the boxing world, it's like Ray was always concentrating on his movement and his hands were on autopilot. Parker's the opposite, but there's lots of time for him.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Truth is, he hasn't even improved that drastically, and yet with a good gameplan was enough to beat wlad. It's not like Fury is now looking like some invincible killer of men. Joshua on the other hand looks like a destroyer with a few flaws need ironing out. I'd say he looks better than Fury did at this stage.

This. Christian Hammer and Kevin Johnson sure have a lot to answer for in immortalising Fury. Wait, noone was even on Fury's train at that point! (well, maybe Horse and HomicideHenry, aka the Chuckle Brothers). Everyone was convinced he would be butchered by Wlad! I guess he wasn't new and improved enough before Wlad. Maybe he did all the 'learning and improving' in his 36 minutes of 'statue waltz' in Dusseldorf? Otherwise, I'm struggling to think of a reason why I should forget all about his bumbling mishaps vs Cunningham, Pajkic, Chisora I and McDonut and put so much stock in Joshua being stunned for 7 seconds vs Whyte.

Maybe he's dealt with an explosive 6'5 volume punching powerhouse before and I just missed it. Maybe the deft, Willie Pep-like moves that everyone else is seeing have been apparent all along against a retinue of dangerous brutes, rather than Joey Abell and a shot Chisora.

Maybe it took a 'New Improved' guy to beat one last time out, I dunno. I better just sit back and wait for the fight to happen though, I can't wait for the next defensive masterpiece from the elegant and twinkle-toed Gypsy King!

If they fight in the next 18mth's experience would be the deciding factor look for Fury to feel AJ power early then Fury would hug his way to a boring un dec.......................anytime after 18mth's AJ blasts Fury out of it in 5 rnd's

You've made life hard for us here mate.

There's a lot of things could happen in 18-24 months.

I would favour Fury right now. But given 24 month, which I think should be what Joshua should be looking at for a world title attempt, all things going well, I've gone for Joshua to win and most likely by stoppage.

But there are any number of things could happen in the mean time which could change that outcome, from Joshua making mistakes and not filling his potential to Fury dropping the belt.

I honestly could have ticked any one of the five options to be honest. I've got hairy balls, not crystal ones.

Its really difficult to judge but i have voted Fury KO against Joshua because hopefully there will be no points game between these two from point of view. It will be straightly a KO match and Fury will be favorite for that instead of Joshua. If Joshua KO,s Fury, i think that will be a upset of that year.

davie wrote:You've made life hard for us here mate.

There's a lot of things could happen in 18-24 months.

I would favour Fury right now. But given 24 month, which I think should be what Joshua should be looking at for a world title attempt, all things going well, I've gone for Joshua to win and most likely by stoppage.

But there are any number of things could happen in the mean time which could change that outcome, from Joshua making mistakes and not filling his potential to Fury dropping the belt.

I honestly could have ticked any one of the five options to be honest. I've got hairy balls, not crystal ones.

I think James intended it as just a bit of fun to predict now. fornicate the bet hedging, just make a decision based on how you expect their career trajectories to go and what 'improvements' are likely to happen. Who cares that we don't have all the meticulous information we need? Folk are looking for a disclaimer should they get it wrong down the line. But as SNG said the other day, we're on a boxing forum. We're already losers.

Personally I think Joshua will improve about 10-15 per cent and Fury will remain the same bumbling fool for the rest of his days so in my view it isn't the mind-bending stab in the dark that other people seem to think it is.

I can't say I've ever rated Fury & still don't particularly, despite his excellent result against Wlad. Joshua ko for me.

I think this will take place as the big summer/stadium/PPV show of 2017, and Joshua will win by KO inside 10.

Riddick Blowe wrote:

davie wrote:You've made life hard for us here mate.

There's a lot of things could happen in 18-24 months.

I would favour Fury right now. But given 24 month, which I think should be what Joshua should be looking at for a world title attempt, all things going well, I've gone for Joshua to win and most likely by stoppage.

But there are any number of things could happen in the mean time which could change that outcome, from Joshua making mistakes and not filling his potential to Fury dropping the belt.

I honestly could have ticked any one of the five options to be honest. I've got hairy balls, not crystal ones.

I think James intended it as just a bit of fun to predict now. eff the bet hedging, just make a decision based on how you expect their career trajectories to go and what 'improvements' are likely to happen. Who cares that we don't have all the meticulous information we need? Folk are looking for a disclaimer should they get it wrong down the line. But as SNG said the other day, we're on a boxing forum. We're already losers.

Personally I think Joshua will improve about 10-15 per cent and Fury will remain the same bumbling fool for the rest of his days so in my view it isn't the mind-bending stab in the dark that other people seem to think it is.

That's about it mate, just a bit of prognosticatory fun - will be fun to look back at the thread if and when they ever fight.

Before the Whyte fight I would have said that it would have been close, but that fight really did show how far AJ is away from being a top heavyweight. It is the head movement that really surprised me. Watching the illusive Fury against Klitschko and then seeing the static AJ against Whyte really did show the difference. Fury was so hard to hit, and although it may be true that Joshua's power could trouble him.....he may not find the chance to land.

Punching hard is easy enough, landing them is completely different. If Fury fights like he did against Vlad he is very tough to get hold of. At this level the jab is crucial. I think this was the biggest lesson Joshua learnt is that he needs to set up his attacks with the jab as he won't be able to walk through opponents and unload at this level.