BoxRec

Right you - let's make it interesting. What do you wanna bet that Lewis and Bowe signed to fight each other in 1994?

What do you want to bet that Bowe and HBO tried to put together a Bowe/Lewis fight in 96 and Lewis didn't want it?

You're calling me a liar. Put your money where your mouth is.

Some of us followed boxing at the time. Others are dependent on the bullshit they read on forums and wikipedia. Which one are you?

There's more ducks on this thread than at Lyme Park!

Bowe ducked Lewis; Lewis ducked Bowe; the chicken ducked the duck & so on & so forth!

I can't keep up!!!

Syntax Error wrote:There's more ducks on this thread than at Lyme Park!

Bowe ducked Lewis; Lewis ducked Bowe; the chicken ducked the duck & so on & so forth!

I can't keep up!!!

It's a lazy narrative that has been allowed to develop and is very easy to disprove. I shall be doing so later on today, when the spirit moves me.

Still trying to see what I can coin in from these rubes like 'predatorhayds' and drdevious' before doing so.

lennox wasn't feared that much while fighting if anything fighters knew if they caught him he'd go like when rahman ko'd lewis or when mccall ko'd lewis .

legacyrecognised wrote:It annoys me when people rate Mike Tyson "prime" more than Lennox even though Lennox was an amateur in Tyson's "prime" from 85-90. Also Tyson paid Lennox $4 million to avoid fighting him. Doesnt this show Tyson was afraid of Lewis just how Riddick Bowe was when he dumped the belt in the bin?

Why are boxers like Tyson and Holyfield constantly ranked better than Lennox Lewis when he was the best Heavyweight of his generation?

Tyson would've avoided Evander too if he'd known Evander wasn't shot.

Lewis's two KO losses to 2nd raters and his struggles vs Bruno, Mercer, Tucker etc. kind of put a dent in the fear factor; whereas Tyson in his prime was hardly ever even buzzed by shots.

Lewis record speaks for itself. He beat every man he faced. A who's who of his era. If that doesn't deserve respect, then your not a boxing fan tbh.

He could have been a bit more aggressive at times tho.

Saying that,it's not like he never KO'd a mofo

dempseyfire wrote:

legacyrecognised wrote:It annoys me when people rate Mike Tyson "prime" more than Lennox even though Lennox was an amateur in Tyson's "prime" from 85-90. Also Tyson paid Lennox $4 million to avoid fighting him. Doesnt this show Tyson was afraid of Lewis just how Riddick Bowe was when he dumped the belt in the bin?

Why are boxers like Tyson and Holyfield constantly ranked better than Lennox Lewis when he was the best Heavyweight of his generation?

Tyson would've avoided Evander too if he'd known Evander wasn't shot.

Lewis's two KO losses to 2nd raters and his struggles vs Bruno, Mercer, Tucker etc. kind of put a dent in the fear factor; whereas Tyson in his prime was hardly ever even buzzed by shots.

I don't think he was feared by the other top guys.
However he was a really good and at times great fighter.
He had less trouble with Tucker than Tyson did.
That really was not a KO loss to McCall; he got up and the fight was stopped prematurely.
Lewis took a lot of good shots from Mercer and did not go down.
Lewis wasn't the one knocked out by Buster Douglas.

Lewis has always been a paradox:
His chin is underrated and his jab is overrated.
He was lucky with the judges against Mercer and Holyfield II.
He got ripped off in the first Holyfield fight and the first McCall fight.

Tuan_Jim wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:There's more ducks on this thread than at Lyme Park!

Bowe ducked Lewis; Lewis ducked Bowe; the chicken ducked the duck & so on & so forth!

I can't keep up!!!

It's a lazy narrative that has been allowed to develop and is very easy to disprove. I shall be doing so later on today, when the spirit moves me.

Still trying to see what I can coin in from these rubes like 'predatorhayds' and drdevious' before doing so.

The fight couldn't happen in 94 due to the fact Bowe was coming off the back of the Holyfield loss.
95 was a no go as Lennox was coming off the back of the McCall lose.
96 Bowe was coming off the back of the Holyfield win and opted to fight Golota for big money.
And what's a Rube????
You sound like the type of guy who enjoys his own voice.
You have a lot of love for Riddick. Are you Rock Newman or are you maybe fanman.

You don't know what you're talking about. Read the REMEMBER WHEN RIDDICK BOWE SIGNED TO FIGHT LENNOX LEWIS thread, learn something and be gentlemanly enough to apologise.

PredatorHayds wrote: or are you maybe fanman.

Lol

It's a great tragedy that these two never fought, especially as it was the most natural fight on the planet this time in 1993!

It seems as if neither are entirely blameless for it not happening & both of them must be gutted when they think back about what might have been.

PredatorHayds wrote:Lennox was a great athlete.

Great jab, great knockout power and a great reign.
Don't forget how successful Holyfield was after the Lewis loss.
Also Bowe didn't want a piece of him.
He was the best heavy of a generation and deserves a spot in the heavy top 10.

He wasn't successful at all. Holyfield went 1-1-1 against John Ruiz and was dominated from pillar to post by former MW/SMW Chris Byrd and James Toney. He beat Rahman but that's it.

Like you said he beat Ruiz and Rahman after the Lewis loss. 2 world champions.

Holyfield was obviously past his prime but far from not being a good fighter still.

PredatorHayds wrote:Like you said he beat Ruiz and Rahman after the Lewis loss. 2 world champions.

Holyfield was obviously past his prime but far from not being a good fighter still.

He was still good (much better than corpse of Tyson that Lewis beat), but he was much, much worse than he was in his prime. He was like current version of Pacquiao - still good but far from great.

Boxing Writer wrote:

PredatorHayds wrote:Like you said he beat Ruiz and Rahman after the Lewis loss. 2 world champions.

Holyfield was obviously past his prime but far from not being a good fighter still.

He was still good (much better than corpse of Tyson that Lewis beat), but he was much, much worse than he was in his prime. He was like current version of Pacquiao - still good but far from great.

Tyson was a absolute shell of himself against Lewis.
The only good thing about the aftermath of that fight was that no-one tried to hide that fact.
Holyfields boxing brain was so under-rated. Even when he physically wasn't as good as he used to be he was competitive against a good standard of fighter.
Best cruiserweight of all time though by a million miles.
Will take someone special at that weight to even get in the same bracket.

mugabi wrote:Lewis fought tyson and holyfield long after their peaks.

In tysons case 11 years....in eh"s case 6 years and even than he struggled badly in two fights.

The motivated bowe of 1995 would have brutalised him

Lewis was better against tall opponents. Lewis beats Bowe anytime, even before Manny Stewart.

What tall opponents? Henry Akinwande? Michael Grant? It's hardly Riddick Bowe.

Keith, you've spent years claiming that Riddick Bowe never wanted a part of Lennox Lewis. A number of us have noted your curious absence from the 'Riddick Bowe Signs to Fight Lennox Lewis' thread, in spite of the fact that you're the first one to demand a poster 'admit they're wrong.'

What a hypocrite.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

mugabi wrote:Lewis fought tyson and holyfield long after their peaks.

In tysons case 11 years....in eh"s case 6 years and even than he struggled badly in two fights.

The motivated bowe of 1995 would have brutalised him

Lewis was better against tall opponents. Lewis beats Bowe anytime, even before Manny Stewart.

Pre-Steward Lewis would be demolished by Riddick Bowe. Pre-Steward Lewis was like 30% of the fighter he became later.

Boxing Writer wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

mugabi wrote:Lewis fought tyson and holyfield long after their peaks.

In tysons case 11 years....in eh"s case 6 years and even than he struggled badly in two fights.

The motivated bowe of 1995 would have brutalised him

Lewis was better against tall opponents. Lewis beats Bowe anytime, even before Manny Stewart.

Pre-Steward Lewis would be demolished by Riddick Bowe. Pre-Steward Lewis was like 30% of the fighter he became later.

Pre-Steward Lewis was also the same guy that stopped Bowe in the Olympics. Styles make fights and Lewis was all wrong for Bowe.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Boxing Writer wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:
Lewis was better against tall opponents. Lewis beats Bowe anytime, even before Manny Stewart.

Pre-Steward Lewis would be demolished by Riddick Bowe. Pre-Steward Lewis was like 30% of the fighter he became later.

Pre-Steward Lewis was also the same guy that stopped Bowe in the Olympics. Styles make fights and Lewis was all wrong for Bowe.

So Gonzalez should have been much worse fight for Bowe according to this logic. Gonzalez brutalized Bowe in amateurs, he put him down four times. No BS staning "knockdowns", he put him down really HARD - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vR3k71ogKmY

Do you remember what happened when Gonzalez fought Bowe in the pros? He was knocked out cold.

Boxing Writer wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Boxing Writer wrote: Pre-Steward Lewis would be demolished by Riddick Bowe. Pre-Steward Lewis was like 30% of the fighter he became later.

Pre-Steward Lewis was also the same guy that stopped Bowe in the Olympics. Styles make fights and Lewis was all wrong for Bowe.

So Gonzalez should have been much worse fight for Bowe according to this logic. Gonzalez brutalized Bowe in amateurs, he put him down four times. No BS staning "knockdowns", he put him down really HARD - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vR3k71ogKmY

Do you remember what happened when Gonzalez fought Bowe in the pros? He was knocked out cold.

Gonzalez is not Lennox Lewis.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Boxing Writer wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:
Pre-Steward Lewis was also the same guy that stopped Bowe in the Olympics. Styles make fights and Lewis was all wrong for Bowe.

So Gonzalez should have been much worse fight for Bowe according to this logic. Gonzalez brutalized Bowe in amateurs, he put him down four times. No BS staning "knockdowns", he put him down really HARD - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vR3k71ogKmY

Do you remember what happened when Gonzalez fought Bowe in the pros? He was knocked out cold.

Gonzalez is not Lennox Lewis.

I don't think that anyone says he was. But you were making the point by using a certain parameter, but seemed reluctant to use the same parameter when it did not help make your case.

If anything the styles issue probably works in reverse of the way you have described it. At the very best, they both avoided each other to pursue a timing that would make it more lucrative, and that time never happened. But a clearly better if less advertized/well known case is made that Lewis avoided Bow, than the reverse.

A belt being trashed, does not really indicate a particular fighter being avoided, but many surmise that to be the case. Belt's were more and more under suspicion for their exorbitant fees and that's an additional, shared, or perhaps separate reason for that action. Though that's the one everyone assumes as the cause. But it did set Bowe free from Suliman.....a guy they did not overly admire as I understand it.

BoxBuzz wrote:I don't think that anyone says he was. But you were making the point by using a certain parameter, but seemed reluctant to use the same parameter when it did not help make your case.

If anything the styles issue probably works in reverse of the way you have described it. At the very best, they both avoided each other to pursue a timing that would make it more lucrative, and that time never happened. But a clearly better if less advertized/well known case is made that Lewis avoided Bow, than the reverse.

A belt being trashed, does not really indicate a particular fighter being avoided, but many surmise that to be the case. Belt's were more and more under suspicion for their exorbitant fees and that's an additional, shared, or perhaps separate reason for that action. Though that's the one everyone assumes as the cause. But it did set Bowe free from Suliman.....a guy they did not overly admire as I understand it.

I didn't use a parameter. I stated a fact about Lewis and Bowe, not anybody else.

I'd agree with Ambling Alp on this....Lennox really was something of a hot-and-cold paradox who was always respected by his opponents but perhaps never utterly, universally feared in the way Tyson was during (his admittedly far shorter) prime period.

Tyson shattered established reputations in one night with a series of chilling, very early KOs and put fighters clean out of business.

Of course, Lennox had that capability himself and sometimes demonstrated it. Let's not forget how he badly mauled the very decent and undefeated Gary Mason and Golota, Botha and Grant got smashed to pieces. Ruddock went the same way as well.

But for every total destruction job there was a fight that was less than convincing and that is perhaps why other heavyweights dared to believe they might have a chance and a few of them like Rahman executed the plan as well.

I think McCall opened the door at Wembley in 1994 - for sure, the fight was stopped early - but it did remove the aura around Lennox and Ray Mercer got - by common agreement - dead unlucky a couple of years later when Lennox was seeking to get his belts back.

It might be stretching things but I think that Bruno, almost considered as yesterday's man all the way back in 1993, got people thinking during that fight in Cardiff. The much-derided Bruno had his moments that night in it was supposed to be a straightforward payday for Big Len.

The Bruno 'thing' is interesting to my mind. Terror-ridden against Tyson but bold, angry and a good deal more successful against Lennox.

Even after Lennox revenged the McCall defeat the obscure and now half-forgotten Croatian Zeljko Mavrovic - him with the bonkers mohawk - gave Lennox a far tougher night than the scorecards suggest and then you have the South Africa meltdown against Rahman.

Keith's not using logic. He's a weirdo crackpot who will hold a position in spite of damning evidence disproving his theory. Note he has quietly had to abandon his 'Bowe never wanted to fight Lennox Lewis' stance WHICH HE HAS HELD FOR YEARS because of my thread full of contemporaneous print media detailling the mega fight Bowe signed up for that Lewis blew. Also not Keith is steering well clear of that thread in spite of many of us wanting him to join it, be a rational adult and admit he was wrong. That my esteemed friends is the type of creature you are attempting to debate with.