BoxRec

cfang wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Lewis actually looked scared for the first round when he fought Mike. That being said, Lennox is as wrong for Mike as Tyson could be for him. If Mike doesn't get him out early. Lennox beats him up. Holyfield beats any Tyson, anytime and anywhere.

Wasn't so scared when Mike went for him and he unloaded those uppercuts. Lewis came firing back straight away in r1 to assert. Tyson for me is a huge disappointment. I thought he was the second coming of Joe Louis when he was on the up. The let down was his inability to come back from adversity. It makes you think that against pretty much any of the top heavyweights of the past, if they could last the first 2 rounds or so and start throwing back, that he'd capitulate - even against the smaller ones.

The 1995-2005 tyson was the one you describe who couldnt win if someone fought back or lasted beyond 4 rounds.

The 86-1991 beast was a very very different thing.he relished a fight and ive rarely seen a hw fighter fire back with such intensity when hit hard. Look at the bruno fight.look at the 12th round of the bonecrusher fight when mike takes that hail mary right,immediately he fires back as if the fight was just starting and hecwanted to fight thru the bell to rounds 13'14'15.he walked thru tuckers uppercut, the nost devastating puncher of the time razor ruddocks punches could do nothing to extinguish tysons lust to prove his chin.again at round 20 ,tyson seemed as desirous for battle as round 1.

But of course the douglas fight where for once in 40 odd fights the stars aligned,the banshees and full moon were out,and tyson had ffucked 1 too many japanese whore while misding 1 training camp too many and he got beaten by buster douglas on a night buster keaton would have beaten him.

Funny how the same people dont use lennox lewis"s lying down after one punch (the kind of one punch tyson took in the douglas,ruddock,bruno,smith and Tucker fights and kept fighting) as evidence lennox would lie down when hit

King Carlos wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Holyfield, Douglas, Lewis, Liston, Prime Holmes.

Before Liston? Charles, Louis, Jeffries.

Hey, I didn't come here to be made sport of by Royals.

Seriously, Tyson feasted on bums, then his rep became half (Ok maybe 33%) of his offense. I don't mean to say that he had no chance in these fights, but I would not bet on him.

Ali would figure him out and once Tyson found out Muhammad's chin was both elusive, and durable if needed, game over.
Foreman might have a Lyle moment (or two) , but once again, durability, and one of a kind persuasional punching power is going to give Tyson the blues and Foreman the edge.
Frazier could have some kamikaze moments, but he can be just as persuasive as Tyson with far more character or "will power" if you will.
A completely spent Holmes, who was somewhat intimidated by the press clippings was outclassed sure, but the fella who hung in there with the best of his day has a better than even chance against Tyson once he gets past the early storm. No walk in the park for any of them but I would give them the edge in every case.

Something all the names above have in common is great ring generalship, and character of will, and once these fights get into the "Razor, and Bonecrusher mid rounds, they are going to give Mike a case of the blues, and as we all know once he has the blues, he loses his edge. Against the likes of the above names, not many of those rounds are going to go into Mike's column (as many of them did with Razor and Bonecrusher. ) Unless you imagine R&B to be on a par with the elite names mentioned above.

As far as Holyfield Douglas and Lewis, well they have a record with Mike, and it's a winning one.

Douglas is a very good case in point. IF he had not experienced his personal tragedy, he might have been focused on the inevitability of Mike beating him since we all knew that that's what was supposed to happen. But he was distracted by his Mom's passing, and thus focused on his own problems (and abilities) which turned out to be enough to carry the day.

There were a lot of comparisons being made between Mike Tyson and Ronda Rousey, and I would say rightly so. The newest comparison is that once either of them faced someone who was focusing on their own skills (Holly because of her remarkably poised nature, and Douglas because of his personal tragedy) rather than the media hype.........something unusual took place......and we both know what that "something unusual" was.

When you take the Media out of the Mike's arsenal, you have a better chance of winning. No matter who you are. And I think the above names would be impervious to the media blitzings. Oh, and a few them might even be able to get the press to "frenzy out" on their side....and that might actually shake Mike up.

Louis, Jeffries and Charles would also be live dogs in the race even on Mikes best days.

So put that in your crown and consider it King Carlos.

Ali.......Foreman........Frazier..........Holmes

Bowe would have obliterated him.

You have to remember this is 86-89 Tyson we're talking about. What were his weaknesses? I can't think of any. He beat the best opponents available to him with ease. It's possible someone like Foreman or Ali could have beaten him, but it's just speculation. To me the peak Tyson was a heavyweight ATG

Holyfield and Lewis. I think Sonny Liston may have the right qualities to beat him. That's it.

Any of the smaller guys will need a stout chin. Or proven ability to bounce back quickly if floored.

banjo wrote:Bowe would have obliterated him.

Yep, Can't believe I forgot his name in my rather lengthy list. Not sure he would obliterate, but he would come away with the W. IMHO.

Noxy wrote:You have to remember this is 86-89 Tyson we're talking about. What were his weaknesses? I can't think of any. He beat the best opponents available to him with ease. It's possible someone like Foreman or Ali could have beaten him, but it's just speculation. To me the peak Tyson was a heavyweight ATG

Real recognizes real. I can't see many heavyweights in their best day beating Iron Mike. He was too devastating. Especially, the 1986-89 version when he had trainer Kevin Rooney

Noxy wrote:You have to remember this is 86-89 Tyson we're talking about. What were his weaknesses? I can't think of any. He beat the best opponents available to him with ease. It's possible someone like Foreman or Ali could have beaten him, but it's just speculation. To me the peak Tyson was a heavyweight ATG

The same exact weaknesses he had when Douglas smashed him. That WAS prime Tyson.

Iron Mike slept with 20 Japanese women the night before

That wouldn't hurt him any.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:That wouldn't hurt him any.

you"re right it never did before!
He had gonnorehea fighting trevor berbick

elmersalsa wrote:Iron Mike slept with 20 Japanese women the night before

And as well all know, that's one too many.

BoxBuzz wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:Iron Mike slept with 20 Japanese women the night before

And as well all know, that's one too many.

He lost his strength and it showed

Muhammad Ali. Because he had all those techniques which Tyson hadn't. I will just one example; if M.Ali was punched hard by someone then he had a real capacity to recover himself up to 12 to 15 rounds. But if Tyson takes some hard punches then he hadn't that capacity.

elmersalsa wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:Iron Mike slept with 20 Japanese women the night before

And as well all know, that's one too many.

He lost his strength and it showed

elmersalsa wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:Iron Mike slept with 20 Japanese women the night before

And as well all know, that's one too many.

He lost his strength and it showed

All part of being a champion. You have to know to stop at 19, just like you need to defend yourself at all times. This does not help make the case for Tyson, if he is not capable of making the right decisions on the night prior to a fight. It' s part of the game.

Women don't weaken legs anyway, just a nice cliche from old time trainers who found out that not having sex makes men angry.

In defending Tyson you run the risk of sounding like one of his obsessive freak fans, but I would say it was fairly obvious that Tyson by 1990 believed his own hype and was lax in training. He surrounded himself with weak people who he knew would never stand up to him.

That being said Douglas with his boundless ability would always be a fearsome opponent if he was in the right frame of mind.

Ali himself was regularly sleeping with loads of women before fights.hell it was something george foreman spoke about in a ko magazine interview in 1988.

mugabi wrote:Ali himself was regularly sleeping with loads of women before fights.hell it was something george foreman spoke about in a ko magazine interview in 1988.

Are you sure about Ali? I thought he made a point of not doing that.

Noxy wrote:

mugabi wrote:Ali himself was regularly sleeping with loads of women before fights.hell it was something george foreman spoke about in a ko magazine interview in 1988.

Are you sure about Ali? I thought he made a point of not doing that.

He probably made a point of telling that to his wife.