BoxRec

zorndeslammes wrote:I like Kovalev plenty and I think the world of Andre Ward's potential, but to me, I don't see the winner as being P4P #1. Maybe for Ward if he does it since he's moving up and hasn't been fighting anyone for years, but as unfair as it might be to some, I couldn't give it to Kovalev. Ward has simply been out of the game for far too long to make assertions that a win over him proves anything. He may very well struggle with Sullivan Barrera leading into the fight and in a couple years we may see both Ward and Barrera as fringe/noncontenders.

The most important thing is seeing the fight actually take place. Right now, Ward doesn't even have a contract to fight Barrera and has dropped out of fights many times before. I, like many, will believe it when I see it.

diddy wrote: How is the winner NOT p4p #1?? Cmon the winner obviously is p4p #1. Why? Because GGG has no one he can beat who is in the same stratosphere as these 2 that could propel him ahead of them. Oh well, except for Ward but we know he's never taking that fight so it's moot.

crusader wrote:Which fighter(s) would you rank above the winner?

zorndeslammes wrote:

diddy wrote: How is the winner NOT p4p #1?? Cmon the winner obviously is p4p #1. Why? Because GGG has no one he can beat who is in the same stratosphere as these 2 that could propel him ahead of them. Oh well, except for Ward but we know he's never taking that fight so it's moot.

crusader wrote:Which fighter(s) would you rank above the winner?

Lemme get this straight: Kovalev beats a guy who will have fought maybe 3 times in 4 years against *zero* elite fighters, and he is definitely the best P4P in the entire sport? I'm not saying he sucks. But he's beaten a 50 year old man, some fringe contenders, and an increasingly depleted Jean Pascal. He hasn't moved up in weight and fought bigger guys here, and he's displayed some defensive liabilities. If I compare his record to Canelo Alvarez, Canelo has fought waaaaay better comp even if I throw in Ward. If Manny goes out and KOs Tim Bradley, I'm not in a rush to toss him down the ladder. GGG could very easily have a signature win or two by the time this fight ever happens (if it does). You rush to promote him there in this instance and you might make yourself look foolish if and when Ward either retires or looks like a dungheap afterwards. The only guy who has looked passable after fighting Kovalev is Cleverly. Everyone else looks like a failed prospect or a journeyman. You can't heap all that on Kovalev's shoulders either when you inspect the records of the Mohammedis.

I'm more amenable to giving it to Ward because he was a dominant champion who beat every meaningful opponent at 168 prior to entering pseudoretirement and would be heading up in weight to fight a guy who is probably top 5 P4P after years of doing hot nothing. That's how the P4P thing works -talent over size. But even then, again: one meaningful fight in nearly 5 years. It isn't much of a resume. Compared to what Floyd did, its a dumpster fire.

crusader wrote:That's fine. It's a very competitively matched fight and I expect reasonable opinions to differ.

Ezzard wrote:Interesting read. Appreciate your opinion...and can see where you're coming from...

But after the weekend I think Ward wins.

So many times Pascal was right up close and Kov couldn't shorten his punches and at best cuffed his ear. Sure, Pascal was looking to survive. But I think Ward can do more. He will look for those lead right hands early on, follow in with his head. And for most of the fight he will be out of range. Then when he commits he will either land the right and the head and/or he will be right up close.

I prefer watching Kov. But Ward seems like a nice guy.

Ezzard wrote:Interesting read. Appreciate your opinion...and can see where you're coming from...

But after the weekend I think Ward wins.

So many times Pascal was right up close and Kov couldn't shorten his punches and at best cuffed his ear. Sure, Pascal was looking to survive. But I think Ward can do more. He will look for those lead right hands early on, follow in with his head. And for most of the fight he will be out of range. Then when he commits he will either land the right and the head and/or he will be right up close.

I prefer watching Kov. But Ward seems like a nicer guy.

diddy wrote:Zordes,

Get this straight. When Kovalev fights Ward it won't be the Ward who only fought 3 times in 4 yrs. It will be Ward who is acclimated to 175 with a few fights under his belt in the previous year alone. And beating THAT guy, should Kovalev do it, would propel him to the top of the p4p mountain. And vice versa.

zorndeslammes wrote:

diddy wrote:Zordes,

Get this straight. When Kovalev fights Ward it won't be the Ward who only fought 3 times in 4 yrs. It will be Ward who is acclimated to 175 with a few fights under his belt in the previous year alone. And beating THAT guy, should Kovalev do it, would propel him to the top of the p4p mountain. And vice versa.

"A few fights"? How many Ward fights do you think will happen between now and Kovalev (assuming Kovalev ever happens)? I'm guessing, at most, one. That puts Kovalev squarely in the "three fights in 4 years" zone by the time he ever steps into a ring with Kovalev.

diddy wrote:

zorndeslammes wrote:

diddy wrote:Zordes,

Get this straight. When Kovalev fights Ward it won't be the Ward who only fought 3 times in 4 yrs. It will be Ward who is acclimated to 175 with a few fights under his belt in the previous year alone. And beating THAT guy, should Kovalev do it, would propel him to the top of the p4p mountain. And vice versa.

"A few fights"? How many Ward fights do you think will happen between now and Kovalev (assuming Kovalev ever happens)? I'm guessing, at most, one. That puts Kovalev squarely in the "three fights in 4 years" zone by the time he ever steps into a ring with Kovalev.

Ward will fight Barrera in late March. And maybe another guy approx 4 months later around July. Smith fight was late June. That would make for....3 fights in a year.

zorndeslammes wrote:

diddy wrote:

zorndeslammes wrote:
"A few fights"? How many Ward fights do you think will happen between now and Kovalev (assuming Kovalev ever happens)? I'm guessing, at most, one. That puts Kovalev squarely in the "three fights in 4 years" zone by the time he ever steps into a ring with Kovalev.

Ward will fight Barrera in late March. And maybe another guy approx 4 months later around July. Smith fight was late June. That would make for....3 fights in a year.

If he indeed fights Barrera in March and another guy in July, then yes, he'd have three fights in the span of 12-13 months. Otherwise, if he doesn't, and we get around to Kovalev/Ward in October or November? Then, yeah, basically 3 fights in 4 years against non-elite.

Riddick Blowe wrote:

Ezzard wrote:Interesting read. Appreciate your opinion...and can see where you're coming from...

But after the weekend I think Ward wins.

So many times Pascal was right up close and Kov couldn't shorten his punches and at best cuffed his ear. Sure, Pascal was looking to survive. But I think Ward can do more. He will look for those lead right hands early on, follow in with his head. And for most of the fight he will be out of range. Then when he commits he will either land the right and the head and/or he will be right up close.

I prefer watching Kov. But Ward seems like a nicer guy.

How does this equate with Ward being able to keep up with Kovalev's workrate? Ward is going to have to throw an awful lot of lead right hands followed by unpenalised headbutts to actually outscore/demoralise Kovalev in this fight. And he has to do it all without being caught himself. You say Ward will be out of range, but I don't believe he has any say in the matter. Kovalev closes the distance and cuts off the ring exceptionally well.

Ezzard wrote:
Ward will slow the pace of the fight and not get penalised for the head work. If Kov can land the right hand flush a couple of times a round then I see it as his fight. But I don't think he will.

Ezzard wrote: What will happen if Kov does land flush?

Ezzard wrote:What is Ward's track record of getting hit flush? Doesn't happen that often. He's a defensive fighter.

I seem to remember him getting dropped once. Could be wrong though.

Baby Face Finster wrote:The key to this fight is the jab. If Kovalev didn't have or utilize such a stiff and accurate jab then I could see Ward winning easily, but Kovalev does have a very good jab. Ward is going to have to get past that punishing jab. He can not win the fight on the outside. He has to close distance and work inside but getting past that jab will be key. Can he do it? I don't think so.