BoxRec

lillywhite14 wrote:

ThereByTheGrace wrote:I don't think Joshua is all he is cracked up to be, think its a matter of time before he is exposed

He needs a new trainer

If you owned Ferrari, would you have an unproven, middle of the road driver racing your Formula 1 car?
For me Joshua ain't showed much improvement since turning over. I think his 'team' are merely getting him into physical condition for fights as opposed to teaching him to work on his weaknesses and trying to improve his ring skills.

I know what you mean, he needs tougher fights though to hone his skills. He has been put in with knockovers and hasn't learned anything other than potential complacency. Whyte was a novice and surprised many, it'll be interesting to see where Hearn takes him next. I dont think he's got the matchmaking smarts.

Look at Campbell he lost to mendy. I think Joshua is headed down the same path as price, when someone shrugs off his best punch, he'll bottle it

ThereByTheGrace wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote:

ThereByTheGrace wrote:I don't think Joshua is all he is cracked up to be, think its a matter of time before he is exposed

He needs a new trainer

If you owned Ferrari, would you have an unproven, middle of the road driver racing your Formula 1 car?
For me Joshua ain't showed much improvement since turning over. I think his 'team' are merely getting him into physical condition for fights as opposed to teaching him to work on his weaknesses and trying to improve his ring skills.

I know what you mean, he needs tougher fights though to hone his skills. He has been put in with knockovers and hasn't learned anything other than potential complacency. Whyte was a novice and surprised many, it'll be interesting to see where Hearn takes him next. I dont think he's got the matchmaking smarts.

Look at Campbell he lost to mendy. I think Joshua is headed down the same path as price, when someone shrugs off his best punch, he'll bottle it

Compare Joshuas record with other gold medalists - Lewis, Wlad, Povetkin. None of them were fighting for world honours after 15/16 fights.

As for the Price comparison - Whyte took some great shots, hit Joshua with an unseen hook that would have decapitated Price and AJ still got the win via brutal KO.

I don't think he can win with some people - if he flattens someone they're a bum, if he goes past a few rounds he's complacent and showing signs of weakness.

Joshua's opposition has been fine so far.

Guys like Johnson and Bakhtov are good tests for prospects on paper, so Joshua blowing them out early should be taken as a sign of his impressive offense ability rather than them being weak opponents, while even someone like Love is usually good for rounds and managed to take Charles Martin 10. Whyte seems to have good power, was a prospect in his own right, and came with ambition, so I think he was a decent opponent at AJ's current stage and going through some adversity was probably a good thing. In my opinion he's been brought along well, and I'd like to see him fight someone like Duhaupas next...though if it is Takam that's even better.

Joshua should fight Sherman Williams or Derric Rossy.

lillywhite14 wrote:

ThereByTheGrace wrote:I don't think Joshua is all he is cracked up to be, think its a matter of time before he is exposed

He needs a new trainer

If you owned Ferrari, would you have an unproven, middle of the road driver racing your Formula 1 car?
For me Joshua ain't showed much improvement since turning over. I think his 'team' are merely getting him into physical condition for fights as opposed to teaching him to work on his weaknesses and trying to improve his ring skills.

Sims always seems like he only has 10 working brain cells and one of them is on the blink, everytime i've seen him interviewed. I know boxing isn't designed to be for MENSA candidates necessarily but he seems particularly dopey to me.

I'm probably one of the few that thinks that Martin is better than a lot of people perceive him to be. Not saying he's some super special talent that will take over the division but I do think he's fairly handy. I've watched quite a few of his fights prior to Glazkov and he's quite a patient, thinking fighter with decent size obviously and he can punch, plus being a southpaw.

the_doctor wrote:

ThereByTheGrace wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote:
He needs a new trainer

If you owned Ferrari, would you have an unproven, middle of the road driver racing your Formula 1 car?
For me Joshua ain't showed much improvement since turning over. I think his 'team' are merely getting him into physical condition for fights as opposed to teaching him to work on his weaknesses and trying to improve his ring skills.

I know what you mean, he needs tougher fights though to hone his skills. He has been put in with knockovers and hasn't learned anything other than potential complacency. Whyte was a novice and surprised many, it'll be interesting to see where Hearn takes him next. I dont think he's got the matchmaking smarts.

Look at Campbell he lost to mendy. I think Joshua is headed down the same path as price, when someone shrugs off his best punch, he'll bottle it

Compare Joshuas record with other gold medalists - Lewis, Wlad, Povetkin. None of them were fighting for world honours after 15/16 fights.

As for the Price comparison - Whyte took some great shots, hit Joshua with an unseen hook that would have decapitated Price and AJ still got the win via brutal KO.

I don't think he can win with some people - if he flattens someone they're a bum, if he goes past a few rounds he's complacent and showing signs of weakness.

We're fans being charged £20 to watch the other gold medallists after 15/16 fights?

You can't be a protected fighter if you're headlining ppv shows

Joshua should take this fight then like the "WBC champ" go back to fighting bums after you get the title claiming you are still learning...

Then we could have 2 "Champs" learning the trade..

Martin's manager now saying they actually spoke to Hearn but got the impression that Team AJ did not think Joshua was ready. He says the fight can be made if AJ wants it, he says they seem to think the kids the second coming so we can come to Europe and find out. Again don't know how much truth in this discussion, however, not seen any denials from the Hearn camp as yet.

Normally if another manager is spouting rubbish it would be knocked back with a brief statement about the crappy conditions that were on offer but not seen nothing.

With the announcement for the April card now next week, to me it looks more and more like Duhaupas, as he fights Friday they could hardly announce the fight yesterday as planned and have him knocked out tonight. I really hope it's not the Frenchman whose best win was Manuel Charr.

If they go this route it can only be to see if he can do it faster than Wilder and make a bit of splash that way but whilst not liking to rush any fighter taking Martin's title would make the necessary waves. Martin would have been someone who if he had not won a world title you would have been looking to progress to in your next fight anyway, so i just can't see the issue.

If he is working to get into mandatory positions then Martin is giving him a pass if he wants it. Equally if he gets into the mandatory WBC he fights the winner of Povetkin/Wilder, or Povetkin if Wilder vacates and to me either of those are much harder/more dangerous fights than Martin.

Looking like Joshua could be in with Malik Scott next.

ozzy1875 wrote:Looking like Joshua could be in with Malik Scott next.

I don't personally see anything wrong with Joshua fighting Martin next and making a first defense vs Scott. Sure, its not the greatest of defenses - but as good as Selby fighting a mid thirties Bantamweight in Montiel. I would say Scott is just about acceptable as a defense.

GlobalBox wrote:
Normally if another manager is spouting rubbish it would be knocked back with a brief statement about the crappy conditions that were on offer but not seen nothing.

Hearn in one of the Ifilm interviews I saw recently, confirmed they had spoken but that the money Martins team were asking for was ridiculous.

mfc_se15 wrote:

GlobalBox wrote:
Normally if another manager is spouting rubbish it would be knocked back with a brief statement about the crappy conditions that were on offer but not seen nothing.

Hearn in one of the Ifilm interviews I saw recently, confirmed they had spoken but that the money Martins team were asking for was ridiculous.

Thought there might be something we were not being told by Martin's team although it must have been an extraordinary amount for them to turn down a title shot, still everything has it's price and you can't be held to ransom.

lefty wrote:I'm probably one of the few that thinks that Martin is better than a lot of people perceive him to be. Not saying he's some super special talent that will take over the division but I do think he's fairly handy. I've watched quite a few of his fights prior to Glazkov and he's quite a patient, thinking fighter with decent size obviously and he can punch, plus being a southpaw.

I agree too, I think Martin is underrated. His size, the fact he is unbeaten and a Southpaw with a long reach in his 20s gives him a headstart - has Joshua even face a southpaw yet, let alone one his size and age?

I'd say it would have to be 50/50 between them if they fought next as we know next to nothing for about either! Joshua has still yet to face anyone proven yet and his last fight was against the totally unproven Whyte, who gave him a competitive match and wobbled him badly in the 2nd round. Martin fought Glazkov who is proven as a contender with wins over Cunningham, Rossy and a draw with Malik Scott but the 3rd round injury means we didn't learn too much other than Martin was comfortably winning the fight to that point and looks patient.

Even though it is for a World Title and Hearn said Joshua would be fighting for one in 2016 [and Martin is 100% more winnable than Wilder or Fury], I think it is too risky for Joshua & Hearn and Martin's team have essentially called their bluff.

What's the rush? Once you are at that level then there is no way to go back down.

Let him learn at his own pace, he needs a few ten rounders where they hit him back. He has
had some of that with Dillian Whyte.

ozzy1875 wrote:Looking like Joshua could be in with Malik Scott next.

Thought the rumours were that Scott will be Haye's next opponent

I was all for rushing Joshua through, and was eating my words when I saw how much trouble he had with Whyte. Joshua looked static, and Whyte took a lot of big shots but remained on his feet for a long time.

When it comes to the IBF, I think Joshua could win the belt and continue his development without a doubt. Eddie would continue to protect him, and would most likely have him defend the belt against someone like Tony Thompson first up, followed by Chisora. He could get a few fights in against lesser quality opponents, while holding that belt, and then move towards trying to unify.

I dont want to see Scott against anyone. He took a blatant dive against Wilder and against Chisora he waited that extra half a second on purpose.

lefty wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote:

ThereByTheGrace wrote:I don't think Joshua is all he is cracked up to be, think its a matter of time before he is exposed

He needs a new trainer

If you owned Ferrari, would you have an unproven, middle of the road driver racing your Formula 1 car?
For me Joshua ain't showed much improvement since turning over. I think his 'team' are merely getting him into physical condition for fights as opposed to teaching him to work on his weaknesses and trying to improve his ring skills.

Sims always seems like he only has 10 working brain cells and one of them is on the blink, everytime i've seen him interviewed. I know boxing isn't designed to be for MENSA candidates necessarily but he seems particularly dopey to me.

I agree. Don't really like Sims as a trainer, seems a nice bloke though. Never really seen him improve anyone's boxing skill who goes to him, go backwards if anything.

Fill Wembley???? Stop being daft!!!!

This isn't Groves v Froch, where half the UK population wants to watch it........this is a bloke from New Zealand, who unless you are a big boxing fan, nobody will have ever heard of! 02 arena will be more than ample for a fight such as this.

stevedoc wrote:AJ should wait he could well win the IBF belt from martin but it would put him in a place where he has to take fights he didn't want yet.
Let him wait another few fights before going for a title so he's ready to step up

I agree in principle but look who Kell Brooks defended against. Am sure they could wangle something for his first three...

ILoveHowardFoster wrote:Fill Wembley???? Stop being daft!!!!

This isn't Groves v Froch, where half the UK population wants to watch it........this is a bloke from New Zealand, who unless you are a big boxing fan, nobody will have ever heard of! 02 arena will be more than ample for a fight such as this.

AJ is a big name & it will be sold to the public as him going for a World title rather than him vs. Martin. I'm not saying the fight's as big as Froch/Groves 2 but with the Hearn hype behind it who knows.

freddydoesdallas wrote:

the_doctor wrote:

ThereByTheGrace wrote:
I know what you mean, he needs tougher fights though to hone his skills. He has been put in with knockovers and hasn't learned anything other than potential complacency. Whyte was a novice and surprised many, it'll be interesting to see where Hearn takes him next. I dont think he's got the matchmaking smarts.

Look at Campbell he lost to mendy. I think Joshua is headed down the same path as price, when someone shrugs off his best punch, he'll bottle it

Compare Joshuas record with other gold medalists - Lewis, Wlad, Povetkin. None of them were fighting for world honours after 15/16 fights.

As for the Price comparison - Whyte took some great shots, hit Joshua with an unseen hook that would have decapitated Price and AJ still got the win via brutal KO.

I don't think he can win with some people - if he flattens someone they're a bum, if he goes past a few rounds he's complacent and showing signs of weakness.

We're fans being charged £20 to watch the other gold medallists after 15/16 fights?

You can't be a protected fighter if you're headlining ppv shows

Wahey someone with sense

thechump wrote:

freddydoesdallas wrote:

the_doctor wrote: Compare Joshuas record with other gold medalists - Lewis, Wlad, Povetkin. None of them were fighting for world honours after 15/16 fights.

As for the Price comparison - Whyte took some great shots, hit Joshua with an unseen hook that would have decapitated Price and AJ still got the win via brutal KO.

I don't think he can win with some people - if he flattens someone they're a bum, if he goes past a few rounds he's complacent and showing signs of weakness.

We're fans being charged £20 to watch the other gold medallists after 15/16 fights?

You can't be a protected fighter if you're headlining ppv shows

Wahey someone with sense

I was comparing Joshua's progression - if you want a debate on the merits of PPV then ok, lets do that.

My point is that Joshua has been no more "protected" than other equivalent prospects, if people don't think his fights are worth PPV then that's fair enough but that doesn't have anything to do with his development as a fighter. Personally I thought the Whyte fight was a good scrap and they haven't actually announced his April opponent so I'll hold off judgment until they do.

the_doctor wrote: I was comparing Joshua's progression - if you want a debate on the merits of PPV then ok, lets do that.

My point is that Joshua has been no more "protected" than other equivalent prospects, if people don't think his fights are worth PPV then that's fair enough but that doesn't have anything to do with his development as a fighter. Personally I thought the Whyte fight was a good scrap and they haven't actually announced his April opponent so I'll hold off judgment until they do.

I disagree that ppv has nothing to do with his development. Matchroom have promoted him to be a star and constantly talked about as a world champion, he'll even an undisputed champion.

I'm not saying he is ready at all for this level but his own promotional team are backing him into a corner by continuing to have him as heavyweight ppv headliner. He can't fight domestic level opponents or run of the mill foreigners.

Drop him from ppv and build him or let him sink or swim on ppv.