BoxRec

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:You have him listed as an atg. Your stupidity is definitely all time.

Jpreisser wrote:Is Armstrong's resume at featherweight all that impressive?

Ambling Alp II wrote:

Jpreisser wrote:Is Armstrong's resume at featherweight all that impressive?

Not nearly enough to rate him number 2 all time. If he would have retired after his last featherweight fight, he would thought of much lower than #2. Almost all of his big wins came at light weight and welterweight.
He is not close to Saddler and Sanchez who should be #2 and #3.

It also makes no sense to make such a big deal about a guy having a lot of title defenses (John, Pedroza, etc.) and then rank someone who had zero title defenses #2.

We need to get away from emphasizing quantity over quality. It's hard to beat one great fighter than 10 good ones.

Barrera, (who btw had more than 6 wins at featherweight) should be higher than Hamed.
He beat Hamed convincingly head to head. (enough with the weight drained crap).
Barrera also beat Morales at fw. Hamed doesn't have anything close to this.

Neither he nor John belong in the top 25.
The mathematical formula for factoring in title defenses is this: Take the number of title defenses and multiply it by zero. That is how important it is. It is who you beat that counts, not how many no hopers you beat.
Chalky Wright doesn't belong in the top 25 either. There is no case for him whatsoever.

Ambling Alp II wrote:

Jpreisser wrote:Is Armstrong's resume at featherweight all that impressive?

Not nearly enough to rate him number 2 all time. If he would have retired after his last featherweight fight, he would thought of much lower than #2. Almost all of his big wins came at light weight and welterweight.
He is not close to Saddler and Sanchez who should be #2 and #3.

It also makes no sense to make such a big deal about a guy having a lot of title defenses (John, Pedroza, etc.) and then rank someone who had zero title defenses #2.

We need to get away from emphasizing quantity over quality. It's hard to beat one great fighter than 10 good ones.

Barrera, (who btw had more than 6 wins at featherweight) should be higher than Hamed.
He beat Hamed convincingly head to head. (enough with the weight drained crap).
Barrera also beat Morales at fw. Hamed doesn't have anything close to this.

Neither he nor John belong in the top 25.
The mathematical formula for factoring in title defenses is this: Take the number of title defenses and multiply it by zero. That is how important it is. It is who you beat that counts, not how many no hopers you beat.
Chalky Wright doesn't belong in the top 25 either. There is no case for him whatsoever.

dr_devious wrote:Barrera and Morales should be in there higher than Naz

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Fight who was given to him? So the division was weak? Lol

TBEwasLangford wrote:

dr_devious wrote:Barrera and Morales should be in there higher than Naz

Why would Barrera be above him? Including his Pacquiao stoppage loss and controversial points win over Morales he had 6 fights at featherweight in his entire career. Hamed was unified champion with 17 fights all at world level. Barrera might have beat him but he was past his prime by that stage and retired the following year.

Barrera might be higher on the all time P4P list and a better all round fighter but his accomplishments at featherweight don't exceed those of Hamed.

elmersalsa wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Fight who was given to him? So the division was weak? Lol

It doesn't matter if the division was strong or weak. He had to defend the title according to the mandatory challengers given by the WBA. And he did it well.

McGoorty wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:So far, some great and distracting reviews have we made in the past months. Especially, when we discussed the top 25 welterweight greats. We have discussed about the top 25 all time great middleweights, super welterweights, welterweights, Jr.welterweights and lightweights. I skipped the Jr. lightweights this time to discuss one of the most entertaining weight classes in boxing history...The featherweights!

Lots of all time pound per pound greats have come from this weight class through the years. Names like Willie Pep, Henry Armstrong, Alexis Arguello, Kid Chocolate, Vicente Saldivar, Salvador Sanchez and Sandy Saddler among them gave the sport some colorful careers. Who is the greatest featherweight ever? Let's look at the list below. Let's debate with class and respect to one another, please. Every body does not have the same mentality. Greatness comes in degrees. Of the 100 greatest boxers of all time, 17 of them in my view of my list are featherweight boxers...Amazing. Is there another weight class that has more all time greats than the featherweight class? It's hard to tell.

These in my view are the top 25 greatest featherweight boxers of all time:
1. Willie Pep
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Sandy Saddler
4. Kid Chocolate
5. Salvador Sanchez
6. Abe Attell
7. Freddie Miller
8. Eusebio Pedroza
9. Vicente Saldivar
10. Alexis Arguello
11. Azumah Nelson
12. Batting Battalino
13. Terry McGovern
14. George Dixon
15. Johnny Dundee
16. Juan Manuel Marquez
17. Johnny Kilbane
18. Jim Driscoll
19. Baby Arizmendi
20. Chalky Wright
21. Young Corbett II
22. Fidel LaBarba
23. Chris John
24. Ernesto Marcel
25. Naseem Hamed

Honorary mention:
Danny Lopez
Marco Antonio Barrera
Erik Morales
Ruben Olivares
Petey Sarron

Let's start the debate.

This is not a good list at all, you really shouldn't fo a division list unless you know who ALL the great fighters were at a weight. Not only is the great Young Griffo not in the top 10, he isn't even on the list at all not only that but he doesn't even get an honourable mention. Griffo is easily one of the 5 best Featherweights to ever live and was probably even harder to hit than Willie Pep was and quicker as well, in fact his record stacks up as probably better than Pep's as he beat more ATG's,.... it was 168 fights before he was judged as loser and that fight was the biggest sham decision in boxing history, everyone knows that Griffo beat Jack McAuliffe that day, in fact he wiped the floor with him. He also easily beat George Kid Lavigne, George Dixon, Torpedo Billy Murphy, Joe Gans. In fact it was Griffo who first made the Featherweight division a legitimate weight division, He was the world champion and never lost that title inside the ring, He was the first GREAT featherweight, period and it was from fighting him that the Great George Dixon and Great Joe Gans really learned the art of boxing, by being taught lessons from a master.

McGoorty wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:So far, some great and distracting reviews have we made in the past months. Especially, when we discussed the top 25 welterweight greats. We have discussed about the top 25 all time great middleweights, super welterweights, welterweights, Jr.welterweights and lightweights. I skipped the Jr. lightweights this time to discuss one of the most entertaining weight classes in boxing history...The featherweights!

Lots of all time pound per pound greats have come from this weight class through the years. Names like Willie Pep, Henry Armstrong, Alexis Arguello, Kid Chocolate, Vicente Saldivar, Salvador Sanchez and Sandy Saddler among them gave the sport some colorful careers. Who is the greatest featherweight ever? Let's look at the list below. Let's debate with class and respect to one another, please. Every body does not have the same mentality. Greatness comes in degrees. Of the 100 greatest boxers of all time, 17 of them in my view of my list are featherweight boxers...Amazing. Is there another weight class that has more all time greats than the featherweight class? It's hard to tell.

These in my view are the top 25 greatest featherweight boxers of all time:
1. Willie Pep
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Sandy Saddler
4. Kid Chocolate
5. Salvador Sanchez
6. Abe Attell
7. Freddie Miller
8. Eusebio Pedroza
9. Vicente Saldivar
10. Alexis Arguello
11. Azumah Nelson
12. Batting Battalino
13. Terry McGovern
14. George Dixon
15. Johnny Dundee
16. Juan Manuel Marquez
17. Johnny Kilbane
18. Jim Driscoll
19. Baby Arizmendi
20. Chalky Wright
21. Young Corbett II
22. Fidel LaBarba
23. Chris John
24. Ernesto Marcel
25. Naseem Hamed

Honorary mention:
Danny Lopez
Marco Antonio Barrera
Erik Morales
Ruben Olivares
Petey Sarron

Let's start the debate.

This is not a good list at all, you really shouldn't fo a division list unless you know who ALL the great fighters were at a weight. Not only is the great Young Griffo not in the top 10, he isn't even on the list at all not only that but he doesn't even get an honourable mention. Griffo is easily one of the 5 best Featherweights to ever live and was probably even harder to hit than Willie Pep was and quicker as well, in fact his record stacks up as probably better than Pep's as he beat more ATG's,.... it was 168 fights before he was judged as loser and that fight was the biggest sham decision in boxing history, everyone knows that Griffo beat Jack McAuliffe that day, in fact he wiped the floor with him. He also easily beat George Kid Lavigne, George Dixon, Torpedo Billy Murphy, Joe Gans. In fact it was Griffo who first made the Featherweight division a legitimate weight division, He was the world champion and never lost that title inside the ring, He was the first GREAT featherweight, period and it was from fighting him that the Great George Dixon and Great Joe Gans really learned the art of boxing, by being taught lessons from a master.

campfire wrote:Eusebio Pedroza was a great fighter but was no-way in hell was he better then Nelson,Chris John was one of the most protected fighter's
i'v seen in the last ten year's when Marquez was in his 4th Superfight with Pacman Chris John was defending his title on a Danny Green undercard.

elmersalsa wrote:

campfire wrote:Eusebio Pedroza was a great fighter but was no-way in hell was he better then Nelson,Chris John was one of the most protected fighter's
i'v seen in the last ten year's when Marquez was in his 4th Superfight with Pacman Chris John was defending his title on a Danny Green undercard.

I don't get it.

elmersalsa wrote:

campfire wrote:Eusebio Pedroza was a great fighter but was no-way in hell was he better then Nelson,Chris John was one of the most protected fighter's
i'v seen in the last ten year's when Marquez was in his 4th Superfight with Pacman Chris John was defending his title on a Danny Green undercard.

The great Eusebio Pedroza may not be better than The Professor pound per pound, we could agree on that, but, Pedroza at featherweight was the better fighter. More title defenses, more time at the top as champion and was a better complete boxer.

How could Chris John is a protected champion? With 18 title defenses? I don't get it.

campfire wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

campfire wrote:Eusebio Pedroza was a great fighter but was no-way in hell was he better then Nelson,Chris John was one of the most protected fighter's
i'v seen in the last ten year's when Marquez was in his 4th Superfight with Pacman Chris John was defending his title on a Danny Green undercard.

The great Eusebio Pedroza may not be better than The Professor pound per pound, we could agree on that, but, Pedroza at featherweight was the better fighter. More title defenses, more time at the top as champion and was a better complete boxer.

How could Chris John is a protected champion? With 18 title defenses? I don't get it.

Most of Nelson fight's were at Featherweight he had about 28 fight's at that weight when he defeated Wilfredo Gomez he was 19-1 at the weight he made 6 defence's of the Featherweight title but most of his World title fight's were at the higher weight of Super Feather but in my opinion he was a monster at Featherweight what did he have 14/15 fight's when he gave the Great Salvador Sanchez the fight of his life I'd like to see Eusebio try that with just 14/15 fight's under his belt he wouldn't have lasted anywhere near 15 round's even though Eusebio made more world title defence's at Featherweight than Azumah who out of Eusebio victim's would Azumah had trouble with I know why they fought Mc Guigan instead of Azumah...................Anyway Pedroza wouldn't beat Nelson at Featherweight or any-other weight for that matter
And poor Chris John will find out one day what was done to him by his management all he has to do is look at where Marquez was around the same time he was fighting for peanut's on a Danny Green undercard i'll remind you Juan Manual was involved in a Superfight with Pacman
yes he was protected thank you.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Talking to elmer is like trying to build a campfire in a pond. Do yourself a favor and move on. The great Chris John tackled all obstacles!