BoxRec

asdfjkl wrote:

jezzamundo wrote:

asdfjkl wrote:How are the rankings affected by Luis Ortiz's KO6 win over Tony Thompson?

That fight proved for me even more that Malik Scott should be out of this top 15, or even 30.

How are the rankings affected by Lucas Browne's TKO10 win over Ruslan Chagaev?

Chagaev is still clearly better as the 5 person below him, but worser as the two below those 5, just like Lucas Browne.
The fight itself didn't prove much for me, Browne his face was messed up after the fight and has been flying all over the ring, Chagaev was completely uninjured, annoyed and clearly wasn't done at the moment the fight was stopped. Nevertheless he should have fought back after 20 seconds, so it's his own fould.

You know I can't accept that as a vote?

As a vote, I'll try to do whatever I can to make the list the best possible, I'd say Browne rank 8, Chagaev rank 9, Ortiz rank 3.
Somehow the list I see doesn't make sense at all, 4 or 5 boxers in the list shouldn't even be in the top 25 heavyweight and some on the bottem should be ranked way higher. Stiverne for example shouldn't be in the top 15, I can name at least 30 persons he would lose against badly.

Good, that's exactly what I want people to do when they vote. When casting my own vote, I was originally inclined to keep Chagaev in at #15, but then I remembered Charles Martin, who I believe should be above Glazkov due to his win over him, even though it was from an injury.

I would be interested to see your list of 30 who would beat Stiverne. Focused and in shape I think he beats Glazkov, Browne, Chisora, Szpilka, Scott and Chagaev.

jezzamundo wrote:

asdfjkl wrote:

jezzamundo wrote:
You know I can't accept that as a vote?

As a vote, I'll try to do whatever I can to make the list the best possible, I'd say Browne rank 8, Chagaev rank 9, Ortiz rank 3.
Somehow the list I see doesn't make sense at all, 4 or 5 boxers in the list shouldn't even be in the top 25 heavyweight and some on the bottem should be ranked way higher. Stiverne for example shouldn't be in the top 15, I can name at least 30 persons he would lose against badly.

Good, that's exactly what I want people to do when they vote. When casting my own vote, I was originally inclined to keep Chagaev in at #15, but then I remembered Charles Martin, who I believe should be above Glazkov due to his win over him, even though it was from an injury.

I would be interested to see your list of 30 who would beat Stiverne. Focused and in shape I think he beats Glazkov, Browne, Chisora, Szpilka, Scott and Chagaev.

For example, but not limited to:

Fury
Klitschko
Povetkin
Wilder
Pulev
Ortiz
Martin
Browne
Parker
Scott
Takam
Glazkov
Joshua
Breazeale
Chisora
Jennings
Szpilka
Washington
Gjergjaj
Andy Ruiz Jr
Still Chagaev
Helenius
Granat
Duhaupas
Mansour
Hughie Fury
Briggs
Haye
Dinu
Schwarz
Nofire
Rivas
Wallin
Ugonoh
Lewandowski
Tyrone Spong

I wouldn't even be surprised if Jason Bergman, who recently lost against Parker, would win.

Some of the lower names you've probably never heard of, but they are often talents who seem to have a good boxing future at this point.
Spong used to be a world level kickboxer, till he broke his leg badly.

You certainly have a poor opinion of Stiverne - I think he beats about half that list - but good on you for answering my challenge

You're definitely overrating Briggs by including him in that list too - he hasn't been at contender level for about a decade.

jezzamundo wrote:You certainly have a poor opinion of Stiverne - I think he beats about half that list - but good on you for answering my challenge

You're definitely overrating Briggs by including him in that list too - he hasn't been at contender level for about a decade.

Have you seen his last fight? Or his lose before? No offence mate, but he really isn't that good and he seems to be downgrading hard.

Stiverne is still top 10 though at 37 it is still difficult to see him going anywhere but lower and he may even retire.

Other than Wilder no one has really beaten him other than an early loss that IMO did nt count anyway. I accept that some of those names would beat him but they have not yet and that is the principle I think needs adopting provided he is compliant, active and beating reasonable fighters. It is not right for say David Haye to be above him when he has just had one fight in 4 years, though Haye would beat him easily. I think Stiverne beats Charles Martin, it's close with Glazkov, close with Takam. He would wipe the floor with Lucas Browne who has no place in the top 10 beating Chagaev who has been fighting poor opponents for the last 7 years just shows the lack of knowledge of man. Chagaev was fighting non top 30 fighters because that's his level, he had close calls with Oquendo again another non top 30 fighter. Chagaev should never have been in the top 15.

The main problem is there are about 40 fighters people consider to be top 15. A fighter beats someone ranked 30 and there is a mad rush to move him into the 15. You either go subjective or objective.

asdfjkl wrote:

jezzamundo wrote:You certainly have a poor opinion of Stiverne - I think he beats about half that list - but good on you for answering my challenge

You're definitely overrating Briggs by including him in that list too - he hasn't been at contender level for about a decade.

Have you seen his last fight? Or his lose before? No offence mate, but he really isn't that good and he seems to be downgrading hard.

I saw the Wilder fight, but not his more recent fight - it doesn't look good on paper, but I'm always hesitant to overly punish fighters for a win. For me, losing to Wilder (though going the distance) wasn't enough to to push him out of the top 15 - where he deserved to be after consecutive wins over the then ranked Arreola.